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The Fury
2014-02-04, 07:17 PM
So... It's occurred to me that there have been dozens of threads now about players dealing with bad GMs, and GMs dealing with bad players. So I think that the GM/player relationship has been thoroughly explored on this forum, but what about the relationship between players? As a player you don't just have to deal with the GM, but you have to deal with the other players too. Sometimes those other players are crazy. Sometimes they're just jerks.

So, anyone feel like sharing their experiences?

Lvl45DM!
2014-02-05, 04:34 AM
So... It's occurred to me that there have been dozens of threads now about players dealing with bad GMs, and GMs dealing with bad players. So I think that the GM/player relationship has been thoroughly explored on this forum, but what about the relationship between players? As a player you don't just have to deal with the GM, but you have to deal with the other players too. Sometimes those other players are crazy. Sometimes they're just jerks.

So, anyone feel like sharing their experiences?

I just keep it in the fantasy. How would my characters react if his party members acted nuts? Usually the answer is beat them up.

My fellow player characters bought fantasy cocaine and went on a drug fueled rampage, destroying property and threatening peoples lives. My svirfneblin cleric was not amused so I just started beating them into unconsciousness or paralyzing them. I took on the whole party and won. Pretty proud of that actually. They woke up and I'd stolen all their drugs, but refused to heal their ability damage from the hangover.

However that only works if the players act nuts IN the game. Out of game? never had the misfortune.

Tengu_temp
2014-02-05, 07:06 AM
There was that one time when another player (A) tried to guilt-trip a third player (B) into a relationship between their characters, because it suddenly turned out that A's character has an evil alternate personality, who can only be kept from taking control by B's character being there for A's character. For bonus points, my character was actually in a slowly budding romance with B's character at that point, and A knew that.

The final result wasn't pretty.

Airk
2014-02-05, 08:57 AM
I just keep it in the fantasy. How would my characters react if his party members acted nuts? Usually the answer is beat them up.

I always find this reaction weird, because what the heck is a "party member" anyway? Most of the time, when players (and thus their characters) are acting up, it's not like the other PCs have some longstanding history with them.

So usually I would expect the response to be "WTF, who is this crazy person, get the hell away from me."

I guess adventurers tend to use violence as the answer to all problems though. :P

DigoDragon
2014-02-05, 09:20 AM
In a short d20 Modern game, we were mercs hired to protect this moviestar on a trip through Antartica. My character was pretty laid back and easy to get along with. A good thing too because apparently all the other PCs wanted to be the crazy one:

We had this insane sniper on the team that never heard of gun safety (had accidently shot herself and other party members in 6 different incidents outside combat), a technician who hated cold weather and would undermine other people's efforts to keep warm because of his hatred of snow (why are you here?!), and the paranoid medic that liked talking to himself instead of other PCs (died of exposure when he took a nightly walk with no clothes on).

Dimers
2014-02-05, 09:28 AM
Regarding other people in any context, I'm used to thinking "ur doin it rong". I'm arrogant in my heart of hearts, and I feel that most differences from my own way of life are incorrect. This is no worse in a RPG than it is in any other facet of my life -- my coworkers, my life partner, my family, my friends, everybody but me is erroneous to a lesser or greater degree. (I also feel I'm pretty messed up myself, but that's not relevant to the topic.)

I don't feel that other people being incorrect means that they're in need of correction, nor that I'm the person to do so. If a problematic player were taking away too much of my share of gametime to be "doin it rong", I'd feel compelled to take action. Those moments are few and far between. So mostly I just judge people silently.

Sample things in my head that don't require action:

*eyeroll* "Oh, lord, now she's going to be talking with her priestess about appropriate clothing for the ritual. Maybe if I take a long bathroom break and get a snack I can miss most of it."

"Oh, hey, the guy with bad bookkeeping is looking for a particular scroll again."

"Do you really need to try to talk to every monster? It's pretty clear that the DM just put that there to kill and loot."

"Thank you for once again being the combat god and making everyone else irrelevant. I love feeling like I have no impact."

"Dude, if you're going to fall asleep anyway, why do you come to games?"

"Oh, for the love of-- just read the freaking spell description! It's in that book that's right in front of you! How do you not know what your character can do?"

Red Fel
2014-02-05, 09:56 AM
I've been fortunate; generally, the people with whom I've played are good players, and fun people.

I said generally.

My quibbles are mercifully minor ones. Usually, they boil down to "this person doesn't know how to RP a concept to save his/her life," but occasionally they rise above that.

Example. One girl in our group, nice girl, friendly, brilliant artist. Played the exact same concept every bloody time, regardless of what her character actually was. Half-Elf druid, Human Wizard, Halfling Monk, CG, NG, CE, doesn't make a difference.

She was Queen of the bloody Fairies.

She was a little ray of freaking sunshine who could do no wrong and no wickedness, didn't understand silliness, was friend to all living things. We played a comedy campaign; she was nice-but-serious. We played an Evil campaign, she was averse to torture. And so on, and so on. Usually played a caster class (except when she played the Monk), but only used about three or so of her spells.

Then there was Hero-Boy. Like the Queen of the Fairies, he played one concept religiously - he was a CG character who acted like a Paladin when it was convenient, and a Rebel Without a Cause when it wasn't. He was always some kind of swordsman, always Stuck-Up Good, always holier-than-thou, and yet he was able to drop it like a hot potato when "Good" became to restrictive.

And he had to be the Big D*** Hero.

He basically appointed himself the party leader in any campaign. Wanted to tell us all what to do, where to go. Had to carry the Big Magical Maguffin and wield the Legendary Weapon personally. Had to chastise the non-Good members of the party when they were non-Good (unless it was convenient to him). And so on.

I remember one campaign where I played an LE character. Only reason I didn't murder the crap out of his character was this whole honor thing. (On the plus side, I would beat him senseless during "sparring" sessions, so that made me feel better.)

I would go into the negative experiences of playing alongside the DMGF, but to her credit, she was actually really good at it; the problem wasn't her, but the DM, who broke the plot over one knee and offered it to her on a platter. Alas, not the subject of this thread.

Overall, I think I've been lucky in terms of players.

GungHo
2014-02-05, 09:56 AM
"Dude, quit it. You're ruining the game."

Raine_Sage
2014-02-05, 11:15 AM
God there was this one player who just sulked every time the spotlight wasn't on him. Other characters get to do something important? Sulk. Other characters talking to an NPC? Sulk. Other characters stop his character from burning down the village? Sulk. And when we just ignored the sulking he would accuse the DM of playing favorites with us. But never to his face it was always when we were talking after the game he'd say things like "Well you're lucky he goes easier on you."

The above was patently untrue and even funnier considering my character had almost died the previous session and we'd been talking about what a close call it was since the DM is fond of nasty traps. And we could never call him on it because he was the kind of person who takes everything waaay too personally and would get offended if anyone said anything. Oddly when we asked him if he was actually having fun the answer was always yes, and he never quit of his own volition so we just tried to ignore the constant sulking.

Another guy caused a little friction with the sulky player, because he always wanted to be the leader but he liked building douchey trickster characters (usually assassins) so his ability to effectively be party face was iffy because he'd almost always try and extort gold in the process of negotiating.
One time he decided mid campaign that he was bored of trickster number one and wanted to build Magician Trickster (tm) number two. The DM let him but he managed to make the character so unlikeable that the entire party was almost unanimous on not letting him in. The party had Two Lawful Good, One Lawful evil, One Chaotic Evil, One Chaotic neutral, And one True Neutral and absolutely none of them wanted anything to do with this guy to give some perspective. The DM had to contrive a situation where he helps rescue the party from slavers in order to give him an in, but he was this close to having to reroll someone else.

banjo1985
2014-02-05, 11:43 AM
Never had to GM a game with crazies, but my character was on the receiving end of the crazy-stick once. A player playing some sort of draconic hybrid tended to use the characters breath weapon to solve all his problems, and didn't worry about if any of the party were in the way. Inevitably, my character snuffed it when I decided to walk into a room at the wrong time and got hosed with acid.

The DM allowed me to come back as a spirit and haunt him, and being a caster I could still be of benefit to the party. I should thank him really; it led to me and my flying pixie friend's 'Wailing Banshee Flyover' tactic whenever we encounter low-level grunts. Nothing makes goblin pee their pants like an intangible sorcerer divebombing over them screaming and slinging fireballs. :smalltongue:

Rosstin
2014-02-05, 01:07 PM
It honestly kind of pisses me off as a role player when no one in the group makes any effort to create an in-universe reason for the group to exist.

As such I usually build the kind of character who can do that. Latest group, I'm a ratfolk merchant hiring the other characters as "protection".

Pex
2014-02-05, 07:16 PM
I've dealt with my share of jerks. I have finally learned I don't have to put up with it because "I'm just role playing" or "That's just what my character would do" aren't justifications to being a jerk. However, one event that really bugs me is a gaming group.

I joined a 3.0 game as a rogue/order of the bow initiate. I don't play rogues and don't play archers, but I wanted to give the class a try. I knew how archery deals with sneak attack, and I was ok with that. As it happens the DM allowed me to use the 3.5 version of Bow Initiate. It was easier to make the character, and the DM really thought the party could use one. Today I understand the synergy of abilities doesn't click well, but then I did not. In any case, my problems with the game had really nothing to do with that issue.

Since this is a 3.0 game it also meant the 3.0 spells, such as the infamous 1d4 + 1 hour per level ability score buffs. There was another rogue in the party, a sorcerer, a wizard, and two clerics, one who went into war priest prestige class. We had fighter NPCs who were cohorts of the wizard and clerics. By the spellcasters' own free will they chose to prepare a lot of buff spells, including Empowered, and cast them on their cohorts and each other. Every game day. All the time. I had no problem with that tactic. It was popular in 3.0.

After buffing each other, their cohorts, the rogue, the sorcerer, every game day every game session I noticed they would never buff me. One game I spoke up and asked for a Cat's Grace. I was told to wait because they have to buff everyone else first. When they were done no spell was left for me.

Next game session I purposely waited until after they finished buffing everyone else before I asked for a Cat's Grace. I was denied and admonished for being greedy. After we rested during the game the War Priest rolled his eyes and gave me a Bull's Strength. Bull's Strength. For the Rogue. An archer. I've spoken to the DM about this. He agreed it was a problem but it was up to the players.

Our long current adventure was taking place in a dungeon complex far from civilization. It was heavily populated by undead that had magic DR. I'm a rogue. No sneak attack. I'm an archer. No magic arrows. Yeah, I'm not doing much in combat. I needed help. I told the cleric it would be a good idea to cast Greater Magic Weapon on my arrows. I could then bypass the DR and help destroy the undead. Since they explode upon death doing so at a range would be a great benefit for the party. There was an explosion alright. I was immediately yelled at and scolded by the players. "How dare I demand a spell! Go buy your own magic arrows!"

I didn't quit the group right then, but I did a couple of sessions later. I just couldn't take it anymore.

Tengu_temp
2014-02-05, 07:38 PM
Oh wow. Did you give them any actual reason to do this, or did they just get all huffy that this annoying newbie dares ask for being treated the same way as the rest of the party?

DigoDragon
2014-02-06, 09:53 AM
It honestly kind of pisses me off as a role player when no one in the group makes any effort to create an in-universe reason for the group to exist.

As such I usually build the kind of character who can do that. Latest group, I'm a ratfolk merchant hiring the other characters as "protection".

Yeah, I feel that way too. I'll put effort to make in-universe reasons as well. In a modern Super Hero campaign, I was an alien bounty hunter who came to Earth for a target. I reasoned that the PCs were local 'law enforcement' so I kept with them because they knew the planet better than I, while I knew the target better than they. Teamwork!

Red Fel
2014-02-06, 09:58 AM
Yeah, I feel that way too. I'll put effort to make in-universe reasons as well. In a modern Super Hero campaign, I was an alien bounty hunter who came to Earth for a target. I reasoned that the PCs were local 'law enforcement' so I kept with them because they knew the planet better than I, while I knew the target better than they. Teamwork!

This is something I make an effort to do with my characters, even when the rest of the party hasn't really considered it.

It made for an interesting epilogue in one campaign (which I've mentioned before), where my character, frankly kind of disgusted with the rest of the party, remained with them just long enough to restore the sacred artifact to its proper place. At which point (thanks to my awesome DM) this character left the party a good-bye note, explaining that his heroism had drawn the attention of a small, hidden colony of his dwindling species, who needed a breeding male to help the race survive. Having no further desire to spend any time with the rest of the party, the character nobly undertook the journey to a faraway place, where he would never see the party again, to help serve his people.

Yeah. Two of my first questions during chargen are "What is everyone playing?" and "Why am I working with these whackjobs again?" I don't run the character until I'm satisfied with the answer. I just get frustrated when other players don't put in that same level of thought.

BootStrapTommy
2014-02-06, 12:32 PM
As an actual crazy player, I simply put forward for your consideration the idea that in-game solutions consistently present themselves as the best option for dealing with other player's lunacy. Vindication, while some may call it immature, often teaches valuable role-playing lessons. Namely, the hypocrisy of defending your own right to play as you wish while violating other's.

It honestly kind of pisses me off as a role player when no one in the group makes any effort to create an in-universe reason for the group to exist.

As such I usually build the kind of character who can do that. Latest group, I'm a ratfolk merchant hiring the other characters as "protection".
As much as it's frowned upon around here, this is why as a GM I usually invent a reason for the party to be together.

Janus
2014-02-06, 06:11 PM
PALADIN: What's going on here?
GOBLIN KING: We want you to go and-
DRUID: Goblin King a cookie! Goblin King a cookie! :smallbiggrin:
GOBLIN KING: . . .
PALADIN: Excuse us for a minute.
*takes Druid outside, punches him in the face, then returns*
PALADIN: Sorry about that. You were saying?

Oddly enough, the druid's player and I have opposite ideas of how our characters view each other. He thinks his druid and my paladin are among each other's closest friends.
Honestly, I think my paladin's view is, "We work together. That's it. :smallannoyed:"

Tengu_temp
2014-02-06, 06:11 PM
As much as it's frowned upon around here, this is why as a GM I usually invent a reason for the party to be together.

Don't let the "full sandbox and player freedom, no railroading or limitations ever!!1" people control your perception. They're a vocal minority more than anything.

Sebastrd
2014-02-07, 04:08 PM
It honestly kind of pisses me off as a role player when no one in the group makes any effort to create an in-universe reason for the group to exist.

As such I usually build the kind of character who can do that. Latest group, I'm a ratfolk merchant hiring the other characters as "protection".

Nice. I'll have to keep that idea in mind for future theft. :)

The Fury
2014-02-07, 06:04 PM
Don't let the "full sandbox and player freedom, no railroading or limitations ever!!1" people control your perception. They're a vocal minority more than anything.

True, there's quite a difference between having some guidance and pretext for adventuring from the GM and "Everything's pre-scripted and you'll go here and do this because that's what the plot is."


Oh wow. Did you give them any actual reason to do this, or did they just get all huffy that this annoying newbie dares ask for being treated the same way as the rest of the party?

I know, right? Those uppity noobs, I'll tell you what. Soon they'll be asking for a Cure Light Wounds because they "Only got three hitpoints left," Go buy a potion! Am I right?

Seriously, it sucks when the rest of the party doesn't treat you like you're part of it.

------------------------------

At the risk of coming off as repetitive the craziest player that I've ever dealt with was Wally, (not his real name obviously.)
This guy was the sort that liked to try to solo just about every encounter he could and seemed to mildly resent it when someone other than himself managed to do something cool. I guess he had an overly competitive mindset.

On top of that his favorite character class was Cleric and his chosen method of playing it is in my opinion just about everything wrong with the class. Well, maybe not "wrong," but definitely obnoxious. He was the sort of player who liked to disparage "Healbots" as unimaginative and stupid and would only make CoDzillas. Seeing as how he liked to think that all buffs stacked with each other he'd cast them all on himself, despite occasional reminders from the DM that it doesn't work that way. As for buffs and heals for the rest of the party, that fell entirely to the party's Bard.

I eventually tried talking to Wally in and out of character about how it would be nice to not rely on potions, magic items and a character of a secondary caster class for stuff that Clerics are actually great at. After a while he agreed to provide one buff spell for me-- Curse of the Brute, which reduced my character's intelligence to 3, (I only found out that the spell can't actually do that years later,) so any protest I made was met with a gentle reminder that I'm only barely capable of language and my character is unlikely to say anything other than crude insults. Awesome.

The only revenge I really got on Wally for this by refusing to help his character out after he told me to not get involved. Hey, I did what he said, right? I guess I also stole his thunder by soloing a dangerous encounter through lateral thinking.