Barbarian Abjurant Champion

[Catman]

The examples given in the text include fighter/wizard and paladin/sorcerer. But why not barbarians? On the upside, there's the hit dice and not wasting the armor proficiencies the fighters and paladins would. Of course, he couldn't Rage and cast at the same time. But, he could put up the shield and mage armor before raging. With the full caster progression, sounds better than the Rage Mage, or at least better than the other martial classes. I'd imagine he'd have to be a sorcerer, or would that just be more fitting roleplay-wise?

[Phelix-Mu]

Runescarred Berserker! That PrC gives the barbarian it's own list of spells and a method for casting. I ways trying to cram Runescarred Berserker, Nentyar Hunter, and Abjurant Champion into the same build, lol.

In any case, check it out. It's in one of the FR supplements...Unapproachable East, maybe? Not sure atm, am AFB.

[Tommy2255]

I was about to suggest that a 2 level dip in Rage Mage might still be worth it, but then I noticed that it doesn't have full BAB. Why does it even exist?

But at any rate, yeah, Barbarian/Sorcerer sounds like an interesting choice for an abjurant champion. I can see him casting Mage Armor at the beginning of the day (hours per level means that at CL 12, you're looking at 12 hours), Shield at the beginning of combat (which is swift with no increase to spell slot) before going into battle. Since Raging is a free action, it wouldn't even interfere with your swift action casting, and then you still have move and standard to run up and hit someone.

Now granted, Barbarian is a pretty frontloaded class, so I'm not sure it would be worth it to take too many levels of it. But I think a couple levels in Barb can be more valuable than a 2 level dip in fighter as you normally would, depending on what you're doing. Especially at low levels, where your normal pre-combat buffs require pretty much all your spell slots, I can definitely see the appeal in also having rage available to you, whether in addition to your buffs or as an extra card up your sleeve when you run dry. At later levels, when even gishes have spell slots to spare and you're best served to have them available in combat, it might start to lag behind (that is, lag behind other casters and other gishes, it's still better than purely mundane).

[Popertop]

This sounds like a great idea. I've always liked the idea of the Barbarian/Sorcerer. You have great survivability at lower levels thanks to the high hit dice and spammable spells, then when you hit middle levels you get access to Abjurant Champion and as Phelix-Mu said, Runescarred Berserker.

Runescarred Berserker is a great class. They get their own spell list they can inscribe using runescars, up to 6th level (getting AMF at that spell level, pretty nice for a barbarian I'd say). I don't remember it advancing casting however.

[Darrin]

Are you familiar with the Thogaturge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195049)?

[Catman]

Are you familiar with the Thogaturge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195049)?

Ha, I figured someone else had thought about it too!

But what to take after finishing Abjurant Champion? My requirements would be any PrC with full BAB and full casting. Any ideas?

[ddude987]

Generally you take 1 level of spellsword at some point.

[nedz]

Runescarred Berserker is a good class, but from a start of Barbarian 5 / Sorcerer 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 (or Barbarian 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5) it's not so good since it doesn't advance casting.

Havoc Mage (Miniatures Handbook p20), Swiftblade (Web only) or the old standard Eldritch Knight (DMG) are all possible follow ons.

Sacred exorcist can get you TU, if you had a Devotion feat you wanted to power. Divine Oracle 2 opens up more spells and gets you Evasion.

[Catman]

Wow, Abjurant Champion really is that good of a class. Nothing I've seen can follow up with it! I almost thought Eldritch Knight, except a d6 hit dice simply will not do.

[nedz]

Spellcasting > size of HD, besides the difference between d6 and d10 is only 2 HP / level on average. If you're that worried about a few HP spend your fighter feat on Improved Toughness, that will halve the difference. I wouldn't do this personally unless I had low HP already.

[Popertop]

Yeah, your barbarian base as well as a decent con score (~14-16) will ensure you have plenty of HP for all the good it will do you. Advancing your casting and BAB at the same time is way more important. You can just throw up magical protections to keep your HP total and other defenses safe.

[Valwyn]

If you can, dip a level of Dragonslayer. It gives you +1 BAB and +1 CL, plus Aura of Courage. You need to take Dodge and Iron Will, though...

[Fouredged Sword]

Honestly, I could see it as a good barbarian with a touch of sorcerer rather than a sorcerer with a touch of barbarian.

Barbarian 2 / Fighter 2 / Wizard 2 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Something X (RSB probably)

[nedz]

There are several useful Bard options too

Barbarian 2 / Bard 4 / Warchanter 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Warchanter +X

Barbarian 2 / Bard 8 / Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3

Barbarian 2 / Bard 3 / Warchanter 5 / Sublime Chord 2/ Abjurant Champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 3

[Catman]

Meh. As far as I can tell, dipping Warblade and then Jade Phoenix Mage Would be the best way to preserve hit dice, BAB, and spellcasting, but that moves the build in a whole other direction. Only seems to really work as a 10 or 12 level build.

[Fax Celestis]

What about Knight Phantom?

[KillianHawkeye]

Keep in mind that mage armor is not an abjuration spell.

[Phelix-Mu]

Keep in mind that mage armor is not an abjuration spell.

For reasons that really defy logic.

[KillianHawkeye]

For reasons that really defy logic.

Be that as it may, it still doesn't work with the bonus from abjurant armor.

[Phelix-Mu]

Be that as it may, it still doesn't work with the bonus from abjurant armor.

Which just leads the optimizer to play a good character and use greater/luminous armour, which reads like it was designed for an Abjurant Champion.

The better question is why the Abjurant Champion designers thought mage armour was a good example of what would work with Abjurant Armour.

[Catman]

What about Knight Phantom?

Thank you! Would not have found this, and it's probably as close as I'd get to what I was looking for.