OOTS #943 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Fable Wright]

This is simply brilliant. :smallbiggrin:

[Kurashima]

Hahahahahahhaah.

Ahhh good, an entire comic devoted to a singular joke. Enjoyed that :D

[Ridureyu]

That is such an awesome retirement.

And now Elan has somebody to visit once the quest is over!

[Athistaurr]

I'm no native English speaker, what does Julio mean by his last phrase?

[quasit]

Wow, just wow. I didn't expect julio being the type for retiring.
Wonder he's been put on a bus for good or if we'd get to see more of him, thought.
Edit: I didn't got his last sentence either. Does it means "I'll need brain bleach" or something else?

[Morgan Wick]

I'm not sure whether to be pissed off at seeing Haley was trying for an unfunny joke all along, or basking in the rest of the forum being played for fools.

Does Julio mean to say "hit the head" in the last panel? I didn't get it and wondered if it meant to say "hit the hay".

[Surfing HalfOrc]

I hope I'm not the only one who heard that in Morgan Freeman's voice... :smallwink:

EDIT: "Hit the head" is Navy slang for use the restroom.

[Maryring]

I'm no native English speaker, what does Julio mean by his last phrase?

It's a typical story writing tool that hitting someone on the head will cause them convenient amnesia. It might be what he's talking about here.

[RMS Oceanic]

I'm no native English speaker, what does Julio mean by his last phrase?

"Hit the head" means "go to the bathroom".

I had a feeling Elan would end up with the Chaos Sabre. Rule of nominal importance and all that. Until proven otherwise I choose to believe it's similar to a Holy Avenger. A +5 Anarchic Rapier at least.

[Mordokai]

What is with Bandana giving orders to the guy with the mop and the bucket? Is this some kind of inside joke that's lost on me or just a showing of a moment randomly chosen?

"Hitting the head." Is that en euphemism for hitting the bottle or something else?

[oppyu]

Next inane yet surprisingly bitter forum debate; whether or not Durkon and Roy were also busting V's chops.

[madock345]

Okay, this one actually made me spit out my tea. And then I choked on said tea and tripped over my chair. But we're going to ignore that last part because it makes me sound uncool. Elan and Julio are brilliant, I wish he could stay forever.

[Finagle]

"the head" is US Navy slang for "the toilet". They've got different words for everything aboard ship.

[Codyage]

Roy and V are talking huh? Looks someone is finally going to learn about Darth V!

[zimmerwald1915]

They've got different words for everything aboard ship.
Speaking as a sailor. though not a navy man, this is absolutely true, and something we're quite smug about.

[Yendor]

Ah, the good old phony voiceover gag. And yay, Haley does remember Blackwing after all.

[RMS Oceanic]

Next inane yet surprisingly bitter forum debate; whether or not Durkon and Roy were also busting V's chops.

Not that it will go that far, but I'm 90% certain they are discussing what V did that fateful lunchtime, and that 944 will cover it.

[Cicciograna]

What is with Bandana giving orders to the guy with the mop and the bucket? Is this some kind of inside joke that's lost on me or just a showing of a moment randomly chosen?


Was going to ask the same thing, if that's a reference, I ain't got it.

PS: just a suggestion, not being an English native speaker, I've found that when in need for the meaning of a certain slang term or phrase Urban Dictionary (http://www.urbandictionary.com) is my best friend, as this was the case (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hit%20the%20head).

[Quild]

I laughed so hard!

[Morph Bark]

Good one, and perfect characterization.

Don't really get the "hit the head" bit though.

[thatSeniorGuy]

I cracked up over the third-to-last panel :smallbiggrin:

It's going to be interesting with the rest of OOTS actually interacting with Blackwing now ...

Thanks Giant!

ETA: @RMS Oceanic

Yes, I agree. 944 is going to be ... interesting :smalleek:

[The Giant]

"Hit the head" is sailor-speak for using the bathroom.

There is no reference or joke in the panel with Bandana giving orders, it's just a picture of her being in command because three straight panels of Elan looking at a piece of paper would have been boring.

[zimmerwald1915]

Yes, I agree. 944 is going to be ... interesting :smalleek:
What, you're not looking forward to it?

[ChristianSt]

Julio is just pure awesomenes! I will really miss him :smallfrown:

But at least I can look forward to see him again some day in his Kickstarter story :smallbiggrin:

[endiku]

Actually laughed out loud....

Thanks giant!!!!

[Mordokai]

"Hit the head" is sailor-speak for using the bathroom.

There is no reference or joke in the panel with Bandana giving orders, it's just a picture of her being in command because three straight panels of Elan looking at a piece of paper would have been boring.

Thank you for clarifying that.

[Darkfyre99]

I just love Elan's need to play tropes straight.

[doomlord]

Quite the (usual) awesomeness this strip.

And just what is V up to? Color me intrigued...

[RMS Oceanic]

Quite the (usual) awesomeness this strip.

And just what is V up to? Color me intrigued...

Probably discussing this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0635.html). And this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html). This too (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0842.html). And more than likely this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0897.html).

The only reason they didn't cop to the whole thing earlier was the pressures of battle.

[Chantelune]

Nice strip as usual. Though Haley confessing that she pretended not to remember Blackwing just to mess with V felt a bit weird to me. I would have expected her to stick with V against the rest of the party.

Oh well, I'm more looking forward to V and Roy's conversation.

[I.care.0]

Nice strip. As usual, the punchline managed to bring a smile out of me.

[Trillium]

Ahahah, I love how this strip is Julio Scoundrel. It just describes him so thoroughly and he is epically funny. Thank you for creating this character, Giant! :smallbiggrin:

[waynemcdougall]

I take it that there will be no more

Deus ex Mechane

[elros]

Why a chaos blade? Makes me wonder what the Giant is setting up.
I also forget that Elan is chaotic good. He doesn't have contempt for order like Haley so I sometimes think he's neutral good.

[turkishproverb]

Heh. Gotta love the old man.

[Idiomorph]

Shh, Haley, you're ruining the dramatic effect!! :smallfrown:

[Shale]

Finally, an answer to the eternal question of voiceovers: "Who's he talking to? And how does he make his voice do that?"

[Grogmir]

Well, you learn something everyday... I always thought it was "Heads" not "Head".

And its not just a US Navy Tradition. Its a general navy tradition... and according to this site dates from 1708. HITTING THE HEAD (http://www.history.navy.mil/trivia/trivia03-2.htm)

Also... Elan. WOW a talking bird. :smallbiggrin:

[Kish]

Why a chaos blade?

Because Julio Scoundrel is Chaotic Neutral.

I also forget that Elan is chaotic good. He doesn't have contempt for order like Haley so I sometimes think he's neutral good.
He's one of the two most chaotic characters in the entire comic. And the other one is Xykon.

[Shale]

Why a chaos blade? Makes me wonder what the Giant is setting up.

It's not in the SRD, but I'm assuming that it's an alignment-based weapon like Axiomatic and that ilk - which means it gets a damage bonus against Lawful enemies. So Elan has a sword that's not much help against Xykon, but will get a boost against Redcloak ( and Tarquin).

[blueblade]

Poor Julio, living in a time before advanced sound effects and recording devices.

[Faltenin]

I like how this is a funny strip, but still manages to convey lots of key points for how the dynamic is evolving:
- Blackwing is "upgraded" to a full speaking-part party member
- Belkar's new familiar is probably also here for a while (it would be great if he could speak a magic word to Shazam him into full size...)
- Elan is being forced into that leading man's role, as his father wanted: control of a flying ship, epic weapon... but also needing to rely on his on strength now his mentor is retiring

Great lessons in storytelling :smallsmile:

[zokoi]

"Chaos sabre" ?

[warmachine]

I'm surprised the author has Julio retiring. I'd have thought he'd keep him active so he can launch Julio as a successor series to OotS.

[Faltenin]

Heh - just realized this is one of the first times :belkar: looks like a Ranger, surrounded by a bird, a reptile and a mammal...

[RMS Oceanic]

I'm surprised the author has Julio retiring. I'd have thought he'd keep him active so he can launch Julio as a successor series to OotS.

Julio's been adventuring for 30 years. More than possible to have a prequel.

[Torrasque]

i love it!

[kamuishirou]

"P.S. Actually, maybe I better hit the head before I go."

Awesome, Sailor jargon! Going to take practice for me to stop calling it the 'head' when I retire. :)

Keep up the great work!

[Nimrod's Son]

It appears that we now have a story problem. The nature of Julio's character means he has to always be the centre of attention, so how do we get rid of him so that he doesn't overshadow our heroes?

Our author has written himself into a corner here, it would seem.

[Doxkid]

Poor Julio, living in a time before advanced sound effects and recording devices.

Sometimes taking a few bard levels is really a good idea. Magic is pretty useful for Dashing Swordsman related things.

[thatSeniorGuy]

What, you're not looking forward to it?

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm eagerly anticipating V's (full) explanation of Familicide to Roy and co; that eek was just sympathising for V's position (I expect that it's not going to be any easy conversation).

[i6uuaq]

I lol'ed.

Lovely end to a ****ty day. Thanks Giant!

The path of real character development does not run smoothly.

[Bulldog Psion]

Elan is a weird, weird guy.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Haha! I love Julio, and he is rapidly becoming one of my favorite characters. Excellent comic, as always. Also, I love how Blackwing is asking for Bloodfeast's autograph.

[Hopeless]

I admit to laughing at that!

Makes me wonder whats going to happen next!:smallsmile:

[Killer Angel]

The can part, was absolutely hilarious! :smallbiggrin:

[Lissibith]

Oh Elan. I love your sense of the dramatic. <3

[The Pilgrim]

Goodbye, Julio. You will be missed... for a while.

[warmachine]

Julio's been adventuring for 30 years. More than possible to have a prequel.
Launching a new series is helped by advertisement in an existing series that is popular with the target audience, such as spotlight time of the main character. By the time OotS finishes and a new series starting, assuming that's what the author plans, a retired Julio will be forgotten. It's seems odd to deliberately drop a marketing opportunity. Assuming the author doesn't have another plan in mind.

[The Pilgrim]

I suppose a Chaos Sabre will not be of particular efficiency against Xykon (thats why Julio mentions he doesn't needs it in CG-aligned Arborea).

Against Redcloak, on the other hand...

[RMS Oceanic]

Also, to keep with previous music recommendations, I think this will be a great wind-down/send off (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ru6s85JZZc).

[Shale]

I would be shocked if Rich plans to follow up OOTS with another series with the same characters or setting.

[Kish]

Launching a new series is helped by advertisement in an existing series that is popular with the target audience, such as spotlight time of the main character. By the time OotS finishes and a new series starting, assuming that's what the author plans, a retired Julio will be forgotten. It's seems odd to deliberately drop a marketing opportunity. Assuming the author doesn't have another plan in mind.
If he were to avoid handling any character people on the forum were imagining as central to another comic series in a way that's incompatible with that expectation, the story he's actually writing would be poorer for it.

[RMS Oceanic]

I suppose a Chaos Sabre will not be of particular efficiency against Xykon (thats why Julio mentions he doesn't needs it in CG-aligned Arborea).

Against Redcloak, on the other hand...

To be fair his previous rapier wouldn't have been much use either.

That monk they didn't hire in Origin of PCs would be the best hitter against Xykon, thanks to Damage Reduction.

[Aotrs Commander]

Classy. And hysterical.

[factotum]

It appears that we now have a story problem. The nature of Julio's character means he has to always be the centre of attention, so how do we get rid of him so that he doesn't overshadow our heroes?

Our author has written himself into a corner here, it would seem.

Er, what? :smallconfused: You may be confusing Julio with Tarquin--at no point in any of his appearances has Julio been the centre of attention, and in fact, he's been largely sidelined since the Mechane made its re-appearance. There's no problem at all with him leaving now, and no doubt Julio himself is anxious to avoid the potential "aged mentor gets killed by the Big Bad" storyline he can see himself occupying if he stays with Elan.

[Anarion]

Classy. And hysterical.

Indeed.

I actually hope that we end up seeing V's discussion with Roy on panel. There was some conjecture put off when the IFCC gagged V, not to mention how Roy will handle the whole soul-selling thing if details are disclosed. It would be very wordy, but they're words I want to read.

[Dracon1us]

OMG that was an hysterical gag

Elan really stole the show this book; All others PGs are beautifully detailed and animated , but are the classics pillar of heroes, (the Warrior, the Wise, The Wizard, The Trickster, and The Action Girl) but Elan to me is really your Original Creation...your masterpiece.

[Gwynfrid]

Indeed.

I actually hope that we end up seeing V's discussion with Roy on panel. There was some conjecture put off when the IFCC gagged V, not to mention how Roy will handle the whole soul-selling thing if details are disclosed. It would be very wordy, but they're words I want to read.

I've been looking forward to V coming clean, and the consequences, but I don't think a whole retelling on-panel would be practical. There's just to much to say, even without accounting for V's wordiness. Plus, we already know what happened, so the value of it would be low.

Unless the Giant surprises me. That wouldn't be the first time.

(Also: Hilarious comic. Truly great, classic Elan comedy).

[Shale]

Er, what? :smallconfused: You may be confusing Julio with Tarquin--at no point in any of his appearances has Julio been the centre of attention, and in fact, he's been largely sidelined since the Mechane made its re-appearance. There's no problem at all with him leaving now, and no doubt Julio himself is anxious to avoid the potential "aged mentor gets killed by the Big Bad" storyline he can see himself occupying if he stays with Elan.

Pst...parodying Argall doesn't work if if the comment has any relationship to reality.

[Nimrod's Son]

Er, what? :smallconfused: You may be confusing Julio with Tarquin
...or you may be confusing me with someone who isn't paraphrasing the already-shaky arguments of a certain infamous forum-user ever since Julio reappeared (arguments which have been smacked down flat in this latest installment). :smallwink:

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Storm_Of_Snow]

Brilliant, Sir Giant, just brilliant. Advance the story, move a potentially story-breaking NPC out of the way without killing them, re-equip a protagonist, and get a great joke in all at the same time.

And possibly a nice little callback to Kazumi and Daigo in #473 as well.

Although I'd kind of have expected Haley to have her arms crossed to go with her irritated expression in the last panel.


It's not in the SRD, but I'm assuming that it's an alignment-based weapon like Axiomatic and that ilk - which means it gets a damage bonus against Lawful enemies. So Elan has a sword that's not much help against Xykon, but will get a boost against Redcloak ( and Tarquin).
Yep, Anarchic is the ability we're looking for. I'm guessing the Chaos Sabre's probably no worse than a +4 (as Elan's previous weapon as a keen +3).

[Osiris]

Hilarious! :Julio: Not here!

EDIT: We'll miss Julio and his puns. May he rest and relax in peace

[Angralad]

Ah yes! Cardinal rule number 1, before leaving ANY premises go pee first. Specially before flying out. Julio is one sensible dude!

[Caex]

Julio's shenanigans never fail to get a laugh out of me. That second to last panel was priceless.

[Breccia]

Ah, Bandana gets a well-earned promotion. ROUGH SEAS AHEAD!

[CoffeeIncluded]

Oh man, this one was great. I can't wait to see what happens with V too (hopefully next comic!)

What is this plane Julio is vacationing on though?

[Kish]

The chaotic good plane.

The plane where Shojo has his afterlife, presumably.

[Trillium]

Hm, why would Julio need to go to the bathroom before flying, if he is using flying carpet?
I mean, c'mon, he's Chaotic...

[AutomatedTeller]

nice!! I did not see the joke coming, though it's completely inline with OOTS.

[Dunsparce]

Julio used the Chaos Sabre against Tarquin. In the thread of the comic that first showed it, people were asking what a Chaos sabre was and IIRC the Giant said it's an Anarchic weapon but he renamed it so those who don't play D&D would get a better idea of what it was.

[Ron Miel]

RE: the whole speaking behind Elan gag ...

Will a future strip reveal that Julio is actually Kazumi Kato (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0473.html)'s father?

Yeah, cigar, hairstyle, I know.

[jidasfire]

Huh. Usually when I try to predict stuff that's going to happen in the comic, I'm super off-base, but in this case, I did kind of predict Julio's retirement and his handing the Chaos Sabre over to Elan. Now if Elan gets Tarquin's whip and Belkar gets his dagger, I'll be on a streak (that probably won't happen though)!

Also, I'm very curious to see how Roy reacts to V confessing his/her crimes. While I can't imagine Roy tossing out one of his most powerful teammates, V blundered really badly and did some stuff bad enough make Belkar himself blanch.

[Joe the Rat]

That was... pretty funny.


Hm, why would Julio need to go to the bathroom before flying, if he is using flying carpet?
I mean, c'mon, he's Chaotic... There are some things you really don't want to try to do off the side of moving upholstery.

[DreadArchon]

I did not see that voice-over joke coming AT ALL.

Brilliant! :smallbiggrin:

[Weimann]

So, people in the know, what is a Chaos Sabre?

[Iberean]

Any one else picking up echoes of "Dread Pirate Roberts" in the handing over the ship to Elan

[Glich]

It's a typical story writing tool that hitting someone on the head will cause them convenient amnesia. It might be what he's talking about here.

No it means use the toilet. The head is the bathroom of a ship.. shesh..

[Kish]

So, people in the know, what is a Chaos Sabre?
There is only one person in the actual know: Rich. The rest of us can speculate*, but only he could answer that, and I doubt he will.

*From the name, probably an anarchic weapon. Presumably works with Dashing Swordsman class abilities as well as a rapier does. Probably an upgrade from Elan's previous +3 Keen rapier.

[Velazquez]

Giant is slowing down the narrative structure for a couple of strips now-I bet that in less that 10 strips, the story will start accelerating again to unknown directions. :smallsmile:

[137beth]

Seems suspiciously like the "death" of Kazumi and Daigo.
Now we know Daigo's last name: Da-Scoundrel:smalltongue:

[Angralad]

I like how this is a funny strip, but still manages to convey lots of key points for how the dynamic is evolving:
- Blackwing is "upgraded" to a full speaking-part party member
- Belkar's new familiar is probably also here for a while (it would be great if he could speak a magic word to Shazam him into full size...)
- Elan is being forced into that leading man's role, as his father wanted: control of a flying ship, epic weapon... but also needing to rely on his on strength now his mentor is retiring

Great lessons in storytelling :smallsmile:

I noticed about Blackwing too. Pretty cool because now he has input and I love his quippy remarks.

Belkar's Familiar should be easy to return to full size, Dispel Magic (I think). He's small because of Baleful Polymorph only. :smallwink: (I'm too lazy to lookup the link just now).

[otakuryoga]

rofl...what a twist!

[Angralad]

Hm, why would Julio need to go to the bathroom before flying, if he is using flying carpet?
I mean, c'mon, he's Chaotic...

Peeing off the side of a Flying carpet can have dire consequences to you, the carpet and anything else in it. Peeing off the back of the carpet... well what kind of Savvy adventurer takes his eyes off the front of his flying vehicle for more than a second? Anything could happen!

So yeah, visit to the loo before embarking on a long trip is a good idea :smallwink:


Edit: And no need to mention if your emergency is number two... unless you plan on bombing someone you dislike :yuk:

[Dunsparce]

There is only one person in the actual know: Rich. The rest of us can speculate*, but only he could answer that, and I doubt he will.

*From the name, probably an anarchic weapon. Presumably works with Dashing Swordsman class abilities as well as a rapier does. Probably an upgrade from Elan's previous +3 Keen rapier.

But he DID answer, when Julio first used it against Tarquin, and was named in #932. Like I said in my post on the last page, It's called Chaos and not Anarchic so non-roleplayers will have a better idea of what it is

[Trillium]

Peeing off the side of a Flying carpet can have dire consequences to you, the carpet and anything else in it. Peeing off the back of the carpet... well what kind of Savvy adventurer takes his eyes off the front of his flying vehicle for more than a second? Anything could happen!

So yeah, visit to the loo before embarking on a long trip is a good idea :smallwink:


Edit: And no need to mention if your emergency is number two... unless you plan on bombing someone you dislike :yuk:

I didn't think about number two... you know, Tarquin is still out there in the desert... :smallbiggrin:

[stench]

i kinda just love when anyone gets new equipment..
also elan with a chaos blade? seriously?
totally bad-ass..

[Ivrytwr]

Hahahaha!
Julio is full of awesome-ness!

I still wonder if Elan is smarter than he lets on, just so he can uphold bardic tradition. I mean yeah he is smarter than he lets on, he just has a completely different tool-set than everyone else. Anyway ...

Funny strip Giant!
Loved Haley's dialogue, too!

[Quartz]

Excellent comic. Thank you.

[Ezekiel]

I love Elan's continued daftness with not noticing Julio & the can. Also, Bloodfeast is co cute :smallbiggrin:

[Angralad]

To me the funny thing is I always say the same thing "Ok let's go... wait, now that I think about it, I should go pee first." So I felt really identified! lol

[Kornaki]

Neatly wrapping up the "but Julio can just return and solve all their problems later too!" crowd.

[HeeJay]

That was HILARIOUS!

(Cue the first "This stip was lame!" comment in 3... 2... 1...)

[HeeJay]

Neatly wrapping up the "but Julio can just return and solve all their problems later too!" crowd.

Well, of course Julio will return and solve all their problems!

With his finely tuned dramatic instinct, he will choose just the right moment to check on Elan, using Arborea's epic scrying pool, and will plane shift to save the Order as a lame Deus Ex Arborea. Really, Giant's writing is just SO bad!

[Clistenes]

Wow, just wow. I didn't expect julio being the type for retiring.
Wonder he's been put on a bus for good or if we'd get to see more of him, thought.
Edit: I didn't got his last sentence either. Does it means "I'll need brain bleach" or something else?

Julio doesn't to be Obi-Wan Kenobi. He probably knew that one of "his B-list villains" like Taquin wouldn't be the one who could kill Elan's mentor in front of him to make the story more dramatic, but Xykon? Yeah, that sounds more like it.

So he's getting the hell out of dodge.

[Angralad]

Well, of course Julio will return and solve all their problems!

With his finely tuned dramatic instinct, he will choose just the right moment to check on Elan, using Arborea's epic scrying pool, and will plane shift to save the Order as a lame Deus Ex Arborea. Really, Giant's writing is just SO bad!

Lol.

One question, since I'm new on the forum, is this some etiquette thing? I didn't need the blue color to get that you're just kidding and being sarcastic but is it like a standard thing among the etiquette-minded in the forum? Any other colors I should know about? It's not the first time I've see it (might have been other posts by you, not sure).

[Kish]

But he DID answer, when Julio first used it against Tarquin, and was named in #932.
Link?

'Cause if all you have is "I think I remember," I'm afraid I don't play Telephone Game; I don't remember Rich posting what the Chaos Saber was, nor can I find such a post now.

Lol.

One question, since I'm new on the forum, is this some etiquette thing? I didn't need the blue color to get that you're just kidding and being sarcastic but is it like a standard thing among the etiquette-minded in the forum? Any other colors I should know about? It's not the first time I've see it (might have been other posts by you, not sure).
No, it's just something some people in the forum do. Put sarcasm in blue text or don't as you see fit; I don't, and the moderators explicitly declined to tacitly or actively support it as a forum standard.

[Shining Wrath]

OK, today's strip is just silly. I guess The Giant needed to get high-level Julio off the ship, and a vacation to Arborea does sound lovely.

[M.A.D]

Julio is doing really well, trope-wise. He changes his position from aged Mentor to the Sixth Ranger, which even increases his coolness factor since he's also avoiding as much screen time as possible. Plus, he didn't announce his retirement before actually doing it.

[Shale]

For reference, if the Chaos Sabre is based on an Anarchic weapon, it's enchanted to penalize Lawful characters who try to use it, and to deal extra damage when it hits someone with a Lawful alignment.

[Lexible]

Blackwing has no shiny!

NO SHINY!

[Eugenitor]

Blackwing has no shiny!

NO SHINY!

If it's not a permanent fixture around V's head the next time we see vit, I'll be very surprised.

[Aasimar]

Ok, I know it could just be lack of detail, but I absolutely love that it looks like the letter itself is empty.

The idea that Julio wouldn't even write it down, just wait and be ready to voice it over when it got opened cracks me up.

[Terrador]

Denouement is wrapping things up quite nicely, and there's one quick thing I'd like to point out:

I definitely like that Elan didn't turn around to talk to Julio. He's still the guy who believes in the drama of the story, and is still glad to play it up--he's maturing, but he's still the same guy, and the gag at the end emphasized that.

It's a big haystack, but I think this piece is one I really like.

[DaggerPen]

"So is he also just-"
"Probably not, no."

Oh, Elan. Never change.

And Elan and Julio are really a match made in... somewhere.

All in all, great fun.

[BrotherMirtillo]

I just love Elan's need to play tropes straight.

I flashed back to Nale having a migraine at the willful ignorance it involves. Fortunately, Haley's more accustomed to it, and Julio doesn't seem to have a problem with it.


Until proven otherwise I choose to believe [the Chaos Sabre]'s similar to a Holy Avenger. A +5 Anarchic Rapier at least.

I read what Anarchic means, but what else does a Holy Avenger do?


[Elan]'s one of the two most chaotic characters in the entire comic. And the other one is Xykon.

Really? I'd have thought Belkar, Ian, or Haley would be up there. I never arranged a top 5 countdown, granted, but I figured chaos was a will to undo forceful nature of law... [thinking] and Elan's always been willing to see people brought to justice... [thinking some more]

Wait, I see it now. I was confusing his thirst for good endings with thirst for justice and thus for law/order, at least to a storytelling extent. That's a faulty conclusion. Elan made all those speeches about people being allowed to choose their own roles, mixing and matching their goals and battles without someone else telling them what they can't think -- Tarquin vs. everybody, Kubota vs. Therkla (though she had her own viewpoint there), etc. That's about the people being able to live and flourish -- Good, but not Lawful.

I still doubt he's at top 2, but I think that's because I haven't seen him manage upheaval on the wide scales of other characters. However, his strategy for Ian could have some vicious fallout. I won't give him a number, but I can appreciate that idea -- the concept that a happy-go-lucky guy with a tendency to say whatever's on his mind (whether that's a lot or a little) would lend itself to his visibility as a champ for Chaos.


-Elan is being forced into that leading man's role, as his father wanted: control of a flying ship, epic weapon... but also needing to rely on his on strength now his mentor is retiring

The weapon's true enough. However, his "control" only extends to temporary steering privileges for the ship, and I doubt the crew would want to tangle with Team Evil, nor would Elan ask them to put their lives on such a perilous line. As for other command, seeing as he didn't even bother Roy with the airship battle, I think he's still willing to let Roy set the pace.

But I agree completely on him finding his own strength, as well as the possibilities of Bloodfeast. (A dispelling would get him back, but how cool would it be if Belkar was able to switch him back and forth from travel-size at will?)

[rbetieh]

Wait, now if Julio comes back a second time he would be a mentor coming out of retirement to save his pupil.....pressing his luck much?

[Angralad]

If it's not a permanent fixture around V's head the next time we see vit, I'll be very surprised.

If you mean in the same style Laurin had it, then yes, I'd be VERY surprised too since that would mean V acquired new Psi powers. Might be he uses it as an earring or pendant or as part of the band that holds his hair in a pony tail.

EDIT: He/she, his/her, disregard gender bias please. I think I read somewhere the articles used in gender neutrality (New Frontier series I think) but I can never remember the right ones.

[Kish]

If you mean in the same style Laurin had it, then yes, I'd be VERY surprised too since that would mean V acquired new Psi powers.
Ioun stones circling the wearer's head isn't a psion thing. It's an ioun stones thing.

(This should not be taken as endorsing the "Vaarsuvius will definitely take the shiny away from Blackwing offstage without comment" school of thought.)

[gypster]

Hahahaha!
Julio is full of awesome-ness!

I still wonder if Elan is smarter than he lets on, just so he can uphold bardic tradition. I mean yeah he is smarter than he lets on, he just has a completely different tool-set than everyone else. Anyway ...

Funny strip Giant!
Loved Haley's dialogue, too!

First time poster, long time lurker.

Just wanted to echo this sentiment. Only Elan would open up a blank piece of paper, hear a voice behind him, and instantly know what's going on and what to do. :smallsmile:

[Kish]

Really? I'd have thought Belkar, Ian, or Haley would be up there. I never arranged a top 5 countdown, granted, but I figured chaos was a will to undo forceful nature of law...)
Consistently and dedicatedly opposing something--even order--is itself an ordered trait. What makes Elan chaotic is that he's random (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0206.html).

[Grey Watcher]

Oh Julio, I'm gonna miss you.

Also, what is with Elan getting new swords in just about every story arc? Is this his third or his fourth one? :smallconfused:

[Angralad]

Ioun stones circling the wearer's head isn't a psion thing. It's an ioun stones thing.

(This should not be taken as endorsing the "Vaarsuvius will definitely take the shiny away from Blackwing offstage without comment" school of thought.)

Ahh! Thanks for the clarification :smallsmile: This is why it's bad to go 10+ years without a proper D&D campaign :smallfrown:

[RMS Oceanic]

I read what Anarchic means, but what else does a Holy Avenger do?

It's normally a +2 Longsword. But when a Paladin wields it it's a +5 Holy Longsword that grants its user Spell Resistance and can cast Greater Dispel Magic.

Maybe it isn't that class specific or powerful, but keeping in line with Roy and Haley I'm confident it's +5 at least.

[littlebum2002]

Julio is doing really well, trope-wise. He changes his position from aged Mentor to the Sixth Ranger, which even increases his coolness factor since he's also avoiding as much screen time as possible. Plus, he didn't announce his retirement before actually doing it.

Doesn't being the sixth ranger involve fighting the team before you join it? When did Julio fight the team? And how can he even be considered the "new member of the team" when he's leaving 13 strips after he "joined"?

[Raphite1]

Haha, I KNEW the first page would be full of people giving crazy interpretations of what "hitting the head" might mean. (You non-native English speakers get a pass.)

The Giant must have a permanently broken nose from so much face-palming.

[Shale]

Oh Julio, I'm gonna miss you.

Also, what is with Elan getting new swords in just about every story arc? Is this his third or his fourth one? :smallconfused:

Would you stop pointing out the repetitiveness of B plots and hurry up? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0471.html)

[EvanGRogers]

I'm no native English speaker, what does Julio mean by his last phrase?

to "hit the head" means to use the restroom.

He has to use the restroom.

[orrion]

Oh Julio, I'm gonna miss you.

Also, what is with Elan getting new swords in just about every story arc? Is this his third or his fourth one? :smallconfused:

Third that he's had to replace.

He started with one. Then Belkar Sundered it when Trigak showed up.

Haley found him another, and presumably he used that one or upgraded it off-panel until Nale stole his equipment and identity in Cliffport.

Julio gave him a +3 Keen rapier, and he then acquired his equipment again when Nale was exposed.

Then Tarquin Sundered one and Julio gave him the Chaos Sabre.

So, he's still got 1 rapier hanging around somewhere, but chances are its not very powerful at this point and the Order appears to be getting +5 stuff whenever they upgrade weapons now (Roy's sword and Haley's bow are both +5).

[Veya]

Doesn't being the sixth ranger involve fighting the team before you join it?
Going by the TV Tropes definition of the "sixth ranger" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SixthRanger), no, it doesn't, the Sixth Ranger is any character who comes in after the stablized start of the team to join it as a main character.

[Angralad]

... the Order appears to be getting +5 stuff whenever they upgrade weapons now (Roy's sword and Haley's bow are both +5).


Yup, higher level drops for higher level characters. Makes sense :smallwink:

[Kish]

Going by the TV Tropes definition of the "sixth ranger" (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SixthRanger), no, it doesn't, the Sixth Ranger is any character who comes in after the stablized start of the team to join it as a main character.
What some people thought Miko would be for a while, then.

(Certainly not what Julio the About-to-leave-the-story-again-and-probably-actually-stay-out-this-time is, though.)

[Lexible]

Consistently and dedicatedly opposing something--even order--is itself an ordered trait. What makes Elan chaotic is that he's random (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0206.html).

Oh... so where should I put down these laws of probability? :smallwink:

[Gift Jeraff]

->If<- undead Durkon isn't the same person as living Durkon, then maybe he could count as the "Sixth Ranger."

[orrion]

Julio is doing really well, trope-wise. He changes his position from aged Mentor to the Sixth Ranger, which even increases his coolness factor since he's also avoiding as much screen time as possible. Plus, he didn't announce his retirement before actually doing it.

He isn't a Sixth Ranger for two reasons:

One, the Order is already a party of six.

Two, it doesn't look like Julio is becoming a main character. A sixth ranger variant has to stick around and become part of the main storyline, and Julio is currently in the process of shuffling off.

[Kish]

Oh... so where should I put down these laws of probability? :smallwink:
In the "Elan treats them as irrelevant at best" box; if you think you could convince him that a standard d20 rolls each number on it approximately 1/20th of the time determined at random rather than 1s and 20s showing up whenever it's appropriately dramatic, you have fun trying.

->If<- undead Durkon isn't the same person as living Durkon, then maybe he could count as the "Sixth Ranger."
I don't think "Vampire Durkon is a completely separate entity from Living Durkon who will nonetheless unlive and be part of the Order long enough to be a new main character" is in the cards.

[Vinsfeld]

I can't wait to see Roy's reaction to what V has to say.

[Lexible]

In the "Elan treats them as irrelevant at best" box; if you think you could convince him that a standard d20 rolls each number on it approximately 1/20th of the time determined at random rather than 1s and 20s showing up whenever it's appropriately dramatic, you have fun trying

:smallamused: Nicely played, sir!

[Gnoman]

I read what Anarchic means, but what else does a Holy Avenger do?


A Holy Avenger is a sword that is a low magic (+2) cold iron longsword for anyone except a Paladin, and a very, very powerful (+5 Holy, can cast Dispel Magic once per round as a standard action) cold iron longsword in the hands of a Paladin.

The Chaos Sabre being something similar for Dashing Swordsmen makes a great deal of sense, given that it's being treated as a powerful weapon.

[Lexible]

I can't wait to see Roy's reaction to what V has to say.

I wonder if he is going to be deeply troubled, both at V's genocide/dealing with fiends, and with the turn for the south the party's alignment seems to have taken.

[Alaska Fan]

"Hit the head" is sailor-speak for using the bathroom.

There is no reference or joke in the panel with Bandana giving orders, it's just a picture of her being in command because three straight panels of Elan looking at a piece of paper would have been boring.

Rich, you're being too modest. Clearly, you are mopping up for the end of the book.

[Sir_Leorik]

Yay! Haley remembered Blackwing after all! And not surprisingly, Elan doesn't remember Blackwing.

Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator is still a small lizard. Poor guy. :smallfrown:

And of course, Julio Scoundrel is leaving. Unlike Tarquin, Julio knows not to overstay his welcome. Of course as an infamous sky pirate he knows the consequences of overstaying your welcome can include jail time, torture, an execution or a shotgun crossbow wedding, so he's no doubt become an expert at leaving before things get too awkward. The first time he showed up, he didn't intrude on Elan's big entrance; all he did was ferry Elan and Thog to Azure City (and blow up some ballistas, making it easier for Redcloak to conquer the city).


Next inane yet surprisingly bitter forum debate; whether or not Durkon and Roy were also busting V's chops.

In Roy's defense, he was absent the first two times Blackwing appeared, was a bit busy looking for Vaarsuvius (who had mysteriously disappeared) the third time, was being targeted by assassins the fourth time, was fighting Xykon on the back of a Zombie Dragon the fifth time and was dead the sixth time. Likewise, Durkon was not present the first time Blackwing appeared, nor the fourth, fifth or sixth times. But Durkon has no real excuse for not remembering Blackwing's second appearance; he cast healing spells on the bird for crying out loud!

So no, Roy was not busting V's chops; he honestly never saw V and Blackwing together at the same time. Durkon wasn't busting V's chops either. Belkar would have been busting V's chops if he actually paid attention to anything. When Blackwing joined Roy and Belkar at the arena, after the fight with Thog and Zz'dtri to report on V's whereabouts, Roy recognizes Blackwing as the bird on V's shoulder, whereas Belkar does not. Belkar only pays attention to things that involve stabbing people or turning Kobolds into objects d'art.


"the head" is US Navy slang for "the toilet". They've got different words for everything aboard ship.


Speaking as a sailor. though not a navy man, this is absolutely true, and something we're quite smug about.

This has actually been brought up in the comic, back when Elan, Durkon and V were with the Azurite Fleet. Durkon was quite pleased to finally learn the difference between Port and Starboard. :smallbiggrin:


Poor Julio, living in a time before advanced sound effects and recording devices.

Don't be absurd. All of that stuff can be replicated with fancy spells and magic items. And since Julio Scoundrel has ranks in Use Magic Device, he could get wands with various Illusion spells. But it's cheaper to use costumes, backdrops and props to create special effects.


It appears that we now have a story problem. The nature of Julio's character means he has to always be the centre of attention, so how do we get rid of him so that he doesn't overshadow our heroes?

Our author has written himself into a corner here, it would seem.

@Nimrod's Son: I'm not sure if you're being sincere or not. If you are, the answer is bonus comics. Julio Scoundrel is slated to appear in one of the Kickstarter comics, and he could definitely appear in bonus strips in book six detailing how he travelled to Arborea and saved the Eladrin from the threat of the Jabborwock from module EX2: The Land Beyond the Magic Mirror. If you are not being sincere, please use emoticons next time? Thanx! :smalltongue:


Oh Julio, I'm gonna miss you.

Also, what is with Elan getting new swords in just about every story arc? Is this his third or his fourth one? :smallconfused:

Elan's original rapier was sundered by Belkar shouting loudly when Trigak ambushed Elan and Belkar (but not Haley). Haley found a magic rapier (it's magical pluses were not revealed, but it was probably +1 or +2) later on and gave it to Elan. Elan used this rapier throughout the rest of DCF, all of NCftPB and the begining of W&XPs, until Nale switched places with him and stole his stuff. When Julio Scoundrel trained Elan to be a Dashing Swordsman, and they were nearing Azure City, he gave Elan the +3 Keen Rapier he'd used earlier in his career. Elan used this rapier in the battle for Azure City, throughout DStP and almost all of book five, until Tarquin sundered it a few strips ago. Now he has a Chaos Sabre ("Ho, ho, ho.") That means that Elan has gone through four rapiers. He still has the second rapier, which he recovered after he defeated Nale in Azure City.


Doesn't being the sixth ranger involve fighting the team before you join it?

Wouldn't that make Belkar the Sixth Ranger? :smallamused:

[Gift Jeraff]

In Roy's defense, he was absent the first two times Blackwing appeared, was a bit busy looking for Vaarsuvius (who had mysteriously disappeared) the third time, was being targeted by assassins the fourth time, was fighting Xykon on the back of a Zombie Dragon the fifth time and was dead the sixth time. Likewise, Durkon was not present the first time Blackwing appeared, nor the fourth, fifth or sixth times. But Durkon has no real excuse for not remembering Blackwing's second appearance; he cast healing spells on the bird for crying out loud.

Minor nitpick: Blackwing was also in the montage of witnesses during the trial.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

Third that he's had to replace.

He started with one. Then Belkar Sundered it when Trigak showed up.

Haley found him another, and presumably he used that one or upgraded it off-panel until Nale stole his equipment and identity in Cliffport.

Julio gave him a +3 Keen rapier, and he then acquired his equipment again when Nale was exposed.

Then Tarquin Sundered one and Julio gave him the Chaos Sabre.

So, he's still got 1 rapier hanging around somewhere, but chances are its not very powerful at this point and the Order appears to be getting +5 stuff whenever they upgrade weapons now (Roy's sword and Haley's bow are both +5).

Roy's sword and Haley's bow aren't merely +5, they're +5 with additional effects (anti-undead - maybe a Sun Blade, as Bane and Disruption don't really fit IMO - and Icy Burst respectively).

Haley's also got Crystal's dagger, which is +4, and Roy's got the giant strength belt, which is at least +4, and possibly +6.

[rs2excelsior]

Possibly the most hilarious "Julio forcing narrative convention and Elan playing along" scene.

Voice-over through a can. Heh. :smallsmile:

[Jay R]

Launching a new series is helped by advertisement in an existing series that is popular with the target audience, such as spotlight time of the main character. By the time OotS finishes and a new series starting, assuming that's what the author plans, a retired Julio will be forgotten. It's seems odd to deliberately drop a marketing opportunity. Assuming the author doesn't have another plan in mind.

Are you kidding? We still remember Trigak, who hasn't been seen since strip 21 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0021.html).

Besides, a lot of us our buying the books, and the most crucial customers are the ones paying money.


It's not in the SRD, but I'm assuming that it's an alignment-based weapon like Axiomatic and that ilk - which means it gets a damage bonus against Lawful enemies. So Elan has a sword that's not much help against Xykon, but will get a boost against Redcloak ( and Tarquin).

Still, the idea of defined rules for a Chaos weapon seems kind of ironic, doesn't it?

[Dakaran]

Hahaha - I love Julio. :smallbiggrin:

[NihhusHuotAliro]

Can, can he do the can? Can he do the can-can he do the can-can-can-can voice over?

Also, there goes my theory that looking into the snarl and being so close to it erased everyone's memories of Blackwing except for V; that it, on some level, messed with his existence.

[Raphite1]

Possibly the most hilarious "Julio forcing narrative convention and Elan playing along" scene.

Voice-over through a can. Heh. :smallsmile:

Doubly hilarious because Elan just had a major life experience learning about the pitfalls of forcing narrative in the extreme. A nice reminder that he's still Elan, and totally willing to force a dramatic parting narrative with his mentor!

[kenlund]

It has been so weird having these recent calmer strips. This comic has been a roller coaster of action for so long.

Anywho, I was glad to see Bloodfeast the Extreme-inator still around. He will be an awesome asset in battle. They can just carry him around easily until they need him and then cast dispel magic or whatever will undo Baleful Polymorph. Instant dinosaur...like cup of soup.

[David Argall]

Neatly wrapping up the "but Julio can just return and solve all their problems later too!" crowd.


Well, of course Julio will return and solve all their problems!

With his finely tuned dramatic instinct, he will choose just the right moment to check on Elan, using Arborea's epic scrying pool, and will plane shift to save the Order as a lame Deus Ex Arborea.
Are you really sure you are kidding? We had much better reason to think we had seen the last of Scoundrel last time.
A more likely scenario: Book 6: The party destroys the last gate, but is pulled into the rift.
Book 7: Among a variety of adventures there, the party runs into the retired Scoundrel [who is just touring the planes and of course is none too happy to see them, given what can happen to retired mentors].
About the only reason to think something like this won't happen is our writer's reluctance to repeat themes. But that reluctance is hardly absolute, and the change from his going to the party to an accidental meeting can be quite enough variety to happen.

[Shale]

Still, the idea of defined rules for a Chaos weapon seems kind of ironic, doesn't it?

Well, when it comes down to it, playing D&D by the rules is pretty darn Lawful.

[Sir_Leorik]

Minor nitpick: Blackwing was also in the montage of witnesses during the trial.

You're correct, I forgot that Blackwing testified against the Order at the trial , but Roy did say that he didn't know where the prosecution was getting all these witnesses, didn't he? :smallwink:

[Joseph_Lavode]

Elan knows not to ruin the drama, Haley! :smallbiggrin:

[ti'esar]

That was entertaining.

Edit: On a note that I don't think anyone has brought up yet, this certainly looks like the kiss of death for all those "the Order won't acknowledge Blackwing's existence because something happened when he stared into the rift" theories that used to be floating around.

[Porthos]

I literately laughed out loud for thirty seconds or so when I got to the 'turn around' bit. Classic moment, expertly delivered. :smallbiggrin:

Re-reading it, the voiceover explains why Haley was looking confused in panel five. Though, of course, we would think she had that expression for an entirely different reason initially. :smalltongue:

Glad to see the whole Haley/Blackwing thing addressed finally (and count me as part of the forum that got it wrong). Ain't gonna lie. I still think it was poorly executed. But at least its been addressed, so in the grand scheme of things, it ain't no thing.

...

Still grinning like a fool at the punchline to this comic, so that more than makes up for it. :smalltongue:

[rewinn]

IRL "the head" was generally located at the bow end, where the natural spray simplified cleaning, according to this (http://www.history.navy.mil/trivia/trivia03-2.htm). How this translated to aerial vehicles I couldn't say, but perhaps magic is involved.

Oddly to our ears, the Poop deck is at the other end of a ship. (Insert your own joke here). This could provide plenty of material for a pun battle, but somehow I don't think The Giant will go there. :smalltongue:

[RdMarquis]

Heh, nice. That was pretty funny. :smallbiggrin:

...And I should get a can and see how well that works.

[Amphiox]

Oh Julio, I'm gonna miss you.

Also, what is with Elan getting new swords in just about every story arc? Is this his third or his fourth one? :smallconfused:

It is just the inevitable consequence of Elan having his weapons sundered being a recurring joke/theme (as it is not always a joke...)

A Dashing Swordsman can't be fencing with his fingers, you know...

[orrion]

Are you really sure you are kidding? We had much better reason to think we had seen the last of Scoundrel last time.
A more likely scenario: Book 6: The party destroys the last gate, but is pulled into the rift.
Book 7: Among a variety of adventures there, the party runs into the retired Scoundrel [who is just touring the planes and of course is none too happy to see them, given what can happen to retired mentors].
About the only reason to think something like this won't happen is our writer's reluctance to repeat themes. But that reluctance is hardly absolute, and the change from his going to the party to an accidental meeting can be quite enough variety to happen.

What can happen to retired mentors is precisely why Julio is making exit plans.

There's nothing to suggest that the world on the other side of the rift is a plane itself and even if it is that anyone has access to it. Or why the hell Julio would want to go there in the first place.

As for having better reasons, Julio's arrival was foreshadowed. If you see foreshadowing of Julio showing up after he's out of the picture this time around then feel free to point it out. Until that happens you've got nothing. You're just making leaps to fit your version of the story.

[Broken Crown]

Am I the only one who interpreted Julio's "long overdue vacation in… Arborea" as meaning that he is expecting not merely to retire, but to die? His Chaos Sabre won't be of much use to him in that case, and his questing days will certainly be behind him.

If this is so, his remark to Elan, "I can't wait to hear the tale," sounds a little bit sinister.

I don't seriously think this was Julio's intention, but I did find the implied meaning striking.

Anyway, thanks for yet another great comic, Giant!

[Cuthalion]

Will there be a unusual gap between books? Has there been in the past?

[Shale]

There were hiatuses of about a month each between books three and four, and books four and five (there's still a "The Order Of The Stick Will Return on X Day" note at the bottom of the book-ending strips if you go into the archive).

[zimmerwald1915]

A Holy Avenger is a sword that is a low magic (+2) cold iron longsword for anyone except a Paladin, and a very, very powerful (+5 Holy, can cast Dispel Magic once per round as a standard action) cold iron longsword in the hands of a Paladin.

The Chaos Sabre being something similar for Dashing Swordsmen makes a great deal of sense, given that it's being treated as a powerful weapon.
Nah, don't you see? Wielding the chaos sabre turns a character into the Black Luster Soldier :smallamused:

[Porthos]

Am I the only one who interpreted Julio's "long overdue vacation in… Arborea" as meaning that he is expecting not merely to retire, but to die?

No, you're not. But let me state for the record two things:

A) I'm not boarding this incipient bandwagon.

B) I think this is a case of overthinking things. Sometimes a cigar is a cigar and all that. :smallwink:

What I DO think is that Julio was intentionally playing up the parallels about dying. Mostly for the humor value. But since this is D&D, he can and will just plane shift over there. :smallwink:

'sides, If Julio is expecting to go to Arborea when he dies, he might be in for a bit of a shock when he does in fact kick the bucket. :smallwink:

[Thrillhouse]

I love how Elan doesn't even turn around.

[LadyEowyn]

Oh, come on! You're not going to show us V's confession? It's happening offscreen? I've been waiting for that for something like a year or more!

Really hoping we get to see something of that in the next few strips.

[orrion]

Am I the only one who interpreted Julio's "long overdue vacation in… Arborea" as meaning that he is expecting not merely to retire, but to die? His Chaos Sabre won't be of much use to him in that case, and his questing days will certainly be behind him.

If this is so, his remark to Elan, "I can't wait to hear the tale," sounds a little bit sinister.

I don't seriously think this was Julio's intention, but I did find the implied meaning striking.

Anyway, thanks for yet another great comic, Giant!

Considering he's Chaotic Neutral (as shown here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15667889#post15667889)) and Arborea is a Chaotic Good plane, no, I don't interpret it as death for him.

[Scifne]

I kind of wish Bloodfeast could go with Julio. I like him, and if he stays with the party, I worry that he is too expendable.

[Sir_Leorik]

Am I the only one who interpreted Julio's "long overdue vacation in… Arborea" as meaning that he is expecting not merely to retire, but to die? His Chaos Sabre won't be of much use to him in that case, and his questing days will certainly be behind him.

Listen to this Clueless Prime. Thinks that anyone Out of Town has been written into the Deadbook! Well here's the Dark of it, Berk: it's possible for you Primes to travel to the Outer Planes and go on grand adventures (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planescape_Campaign_Setting) before you're hanged on the leafless tree. Course you gotta watch out for coney catchers looking to peel you, and if you get scragged on the Great Wheel you're scragged for good, but let's face it: you ain't lived until you've left the Prime behind you.

[Sir_Leorik]

Oh, come on! You're not going to show us V's confession? It's happening offscreen? I've been waiting for that for something like a year or more!

Really hoping we get to see something of that in the next few strips.

We'll probably get an opening panel of V saying "And then the archfiends released my soul and I joined you and our colleagues in battle."

The rest of the strip will be Roy mulling over everything V has told him about the horrible things she did, about the IFCC, and about the other world beyond the rifts.

[BrotherMirtillo]

Nah, don't you see? Wielding the chaos sabre turns a character into the Black Luster Soldier :smallamused:

Yes, but first, you have to convince one Good person and one Evil person to move from their afterlife realms to a demiplane. Elan will reveal this in a highly-tense one-on-one battle, possibly sporting a new hairdo for the occasion. The enemy will slowly stop boasting about having killed Belkar and re-killed Durkon (who both fought valiantly) just in time for Elan to call their spirits for this job.

The finishing touch is that one of Zz'dtri's wands is a spell called Dimension Fusion Door, which lets Elan pay one-quarter of his max HP to summon all entities from this demiplane. Cue the return of Durkon and Belkar at full strength.

There will be backlighting and brassy music. Clothing will flutter in the wind. The enemy will probably explode.

[Legato Endless]

Nah, don't you see? Wielding the chaos sabre turns a character into the Black Luster Soldier :smallamused:

Who did Julio tribute to obtain it? :smalleek:

[Link]

Will there be a unusual gap between books? Has there been in the past?

there was 3 month gap in between book 3 and book 4.

[orrion]

Who did Julio tribute to obtain it? :smalleek:

One of Malack's vampire spawn, which he kidnapped from one of the weddings the day Nale killed the other spawns.

For the light side, after dropping Elan off he tracked down Setzer's airship that was also going to Azure City and captured.. let's say Relm because she's so obnoxious.. and used her.

[Link]

I kind of wish Bloodfeast could go with Julio. I like him, and if he stays with the party, I worry that he is too expendable.

plus he's way to big to stay on the airship

[Sir_Leorik]

plus he's way to big to stay on the airship

Not so long as he remains an adorable little lizard, rather than a huge rampaging dinosaur.

[SteveDJ]

Already TL;DR

It feels like the next-to-last frame is a bit off. Shouldn't Elan have turned to look behind him? It feels odd otherwise... worse because his expression didn't even change from the frame before, either.

[SteveDJ]

Already TL;DR

It feels like the next-to-last frame is a bit off. Shouldn't Elan have turned to look behind him? It feels odd otherwise... worse because his expression didn't even change from the frame before, either.

I guess I could've counted -- frame 10 for those that prefer that format. :smallwink:

[ti'esar]

Already TL;DR

It feels like the next-to-last frame is a bit off. Shouldn't Elan have turned to look behind him? It feels odd otherwise... worse because his expression didn't even change from the frame before, either.

The implication is that he knew perfectly well that Julio was still there.

[Angel Bob]

Neatly wrapping up the "but Julio can just return and solve all their problems later too!" crowd.

Don't let the royal 'we' fool you -- David Argall does not comprise multiple people. :smalltongue:

[DaggerPen]

I haven't gone over the thread yet, but I just wanted to say that I guess from V talking to Roy below deck that V is confessing to Familicide right now. Wonder how much of that we'll get to see.

[Amphiox]

Doubly hilarious because Elan just had a major life experience learning about the pitfalls of forcing narrative in the extreme. A nice reminder that he's still Elan, and totally willing to force a dramatic parting narrative with his mentor!

Elan learned that if he has to choose between forcing narrative and doing the right thing by other people, he will choose the people. But when he doesn't have to make that kind of choice to play with the narrative? Well then it's no contest....


Oh, come on! You're not going to show us V's confession? It's happening offscreen? I've been waiting for that for something like a year or more!

Really hoping we get to see something of that in the next few strips.

I always assumed it would be off-screen. Because we, the audience, don't need to see V describing what she did, as we've already seen it, and we also don't need to see V describing the aftermath with respect to his own feelings and character growth, because we've already seen that too. All we need to see is Roy's reaction, and that can be seen in the panels after the off-screen reveal.


Don't let the royal 'we' fool you -- David Argall does not comprise multiple people. :smalltongue:

He is legion!

Or at least, so he claims!

[Gamgee]

The quirks of being around bards. :smallcool:

[zimmerwald1915]

I always assumed it would be off-screen. Because we, the audience, don't need to see V describing what she did, as we've already seen it, and we also don't need to see V describing the aftermath with respect to his own feelings and character growth, because we've already seen that too. All we need to see is Roy's reaction, and that can be seen in the panels after the off-screen reveal.
Plus if we never see it on-panel those of us who want to can pretend it never happened, and that Roy's obvious reactions to it are just based on observations and deductions he made on his own :smalltongue:

[MrMercury]

How did Julio voice the tilde when he said "~Julio"?
EDIT: corrected spelling

[Kislath]

HAHAHAHAHA!!

"is he also busting---

Probably not, no."

The voiceover gag! HAHAHAHA!!

[Rodin]

The implication is that he knew perfectly well that Julio was still there.

I actually think this is a re-visit of the "Elan not noticing people standing behind him, even when directly told about them" gag. Rather than turning around and actually saying what he wanted to say, Elan instead launches into his lament of not being able to talk to Julio.

That's why Haley is annoyed.

[Gamgee]

How did Julio voice the tilde when he sad "~Julio"?

Hey kid stop with those questions. They really wreck the walls around here. Especially the 4th. :roach:

[MrMercury]

Hey kid stop with those questions. They really wreck the walls around here. Especially the 4th. :roach:

Heh, I've read the start of darkness.
Great book. Perhaps a mistake to read it before I read the main OOTS comic, because now I sympathize with redcloak too much :smallbiggrin:
EDIT:
But really, how did he voice the tilde? I'm interested because it interupted the monologue in my head

[ChristianSt]

How did Julio voice the tilde when he said "~Julio"?

The same way he pronounced all those "."'s , ","'s and the "?" :smalltongue:

[MrMercury]

The same way he pronounced all those "."'s , ","'s and the "?" :smalltongue:

Well that could be pronounced through pauses and intonation, because Grammar still exists when we speak out loud.
The tilde, on the other hand, has no way of being intoned or implied

[oppyu]

Well that could be pronounced through pauses and intonation, because Grammar still exists when we speak out loud.
The tilde, on the other hand, has no way of being intoned or implied
Clearly Elan and Julio have established a complex series of clicks and whistles to communicate various nonverbal punctuation marks in dramatic monologues.

[MrMercury]

Clearly Elan and Julio have established a complex series of clicks and whistles to communicate various nonverbal punctuation marks in dramatic monologues.

Ah, of course! It must be part of the Dashing Swordsman training

[ChristianSt]

Well that could be pronounced through pauses and intonation, because Grammar still exists when we speak out loud.
The tilde, on the other hand, has no way of being intoned or implied

Maybe Dashing Swordsmans are able to use pauses to imply "~"'s? :smallamused:

[MrMercury]

Maybe Dashing Swordsmans are able to use pauses to imply "~"'s? :smallamused:

Perhaps. Maybe it's the echo from his voice in the can?
I wonder if Rich will give us an explanation...

[Jordan Cat]

Haley, you spoiled their Dramatic Moment :smallsmile:

[Bulldog Psion]

How did Julio voice the tilde when he said "~Julio"?
EDIT: corrected spelling

In the Stickverse, a tilde is indicated in verbal conversation by a strange, gargling howl combined with an undulating wheeze lasting precisely 5.5122393 seconds. However, Rich decided that was too difficult to transcribe, so he just used the tilde. :smallcool:

Before you ask the questions, be sure that you want to know the answers.

[MrMercury]

In the Stickverse, a tilde is indicated in verbal conversation by a strange, gargling howl combined with an undulating wheeze lasting precisely 5.5122393 seconds. However, Rich decided that was too difficult to transcribe, so he just used the tilde. :smallcool:

Before you ask the questions, be sure that you want to know the answers.

Why would I not want to know that answer? :smallbiggrin:

[David Argall]

What can happen to retired mentors is precisely why Julio is making exit plans.
He made exit plans before. Didn't stick, did they? Why should these stick?



There's nothing to suggest that the world on the other side of the rift is a plane itself and even if it is that anyone has access to it.
Everything is a plane in D&D. Some planes vary in size, but we start with the prime material, and work out from there. As to access, a lot of planes are inaccessable, until... Scoundrel finds a sign saying "do not enter. Very dangerous", or "Keep out. Private harem/treasury of Lord Jerk the Rich/lusty." or we just have an accidental wormhole leading into it, or ... We just need a magic dohickey and in he goes.



As for having better reasons, Julio's arrival was foreshadowed.
When Elan has to identify it in text as foreshadowing, it is rather feeble foreshadowing.



If you see foreshadowing of Julio showing up after he's out of the picture this time around then feel free to point it out. Until that happens you've got nothing.
Which would be what we had with Scoundrel the last time, and far stronger reason to believe he was not coming back.



You're just making leaps to fit your version of the story.
Not really. I don't expect him back, just like I didn't before. What I am saying is that there is no valid reason to say he is not coming back.

[gorocz]

Am I the only one who interpreted Julio's "long overdue vacation in… Arborea" as meaning that he is expecting not merely to retire, but to die? His Chaos Sabre won't be of much use to him in that case, and his questing days will certainly be behind him.

I actually thought the same thing for a while, but he's CN. But then again, it wouldn't surprise me that Chaotic Outer Planes aren't very strict with who visits - meaning that even if you're CN, you can go to Arborea for a while and relax (or any other chaotic Outer Plane, for any reason) before going to Limbo for the rest of your afterlife. I certainly wouldn't expect some strict evaluation-based entrance system like Celestia has... Though I think it's much more likely he's going to travel the planes alive, but I still wouldn't expect resistence in there from the natives as long as he's not killing people mindlessly...

---

And regarding the sabre - it's good thing he got it. They're gonna be venturing into a dungeon that was supposed to be full of tough creatures and that Xykon/RC got into before them. And with Xykon's penchant for zombifying everything, it is a good idea to have a slashing weapon since even with a +5 Rapier, Elan would do only 1d6 (+ his not very good STR modifier, since zombies are probably immune to puns) damage on a hit to even the most basic zombie - basic zombies have DR 5/slashing (and are immune to criticals, which makes rapiers, with a low basic damage range, non-DR-bypassing damage type and a good, but useless, critical range, about as useless as a weapon gets.

[Smolder]

Great, Elan got a weapon upgrade.

Hopefully, Belkar will also get a weapon upgrade, by picking up Tarquin's dagger. He still has his old ones in the first panel.


Also, No, Julio's not dying. Arborea is a perfectly typical area for an adventurer of Julio's level to go solo'ing. Remember the Evil adventuring party raiding Celestia?

[Jay R]

It feels like the next-to-last frame is a bit off. Shouldn't Elan have turned to look behind him? It feels odd otherwise... worse because his expression didn't even change from the frame before, either.

I assume that, as a bard, he is refusing to let Haley's reveal interfere with his "I was too late to say good-bye" monologue.

Julio is using that can for a reason, after all.


But really, how did he voice the tilde?

Rather poorly, I'm afraid. Julio has a strong accent.

[Dracon1us]

I haven't gone over the thread yet, but I just wanted to say that I guess from V talking to Roy below deck that V is confessing to Familicide right now. Wonder how much of that we'll get to see.

that's the elephant in the room

I guess that's too big a thing to hide from the rest of the party
will they vote to cast V. away?

how can Roy use effectively V. without the fiends abuse his\her time?

it's all laugh now...but reality will sink in all too soon :smalleek:

[Faramir]

Beautiful. Just beautiful.

[Sir_Leorik]

Great, Elan got a weapon upgrade.

Hopefully, Belkar will also get a weapon upgrade, by picking up Tarquin's dagger. He still has his old ones in the first panel.

Tarquin's dagger is too big for Belkar to use. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html) :smalltongue:

[zimmerwald1915]

I guess that's too big a thing to hide from the rest of the party
will they vote to cast V. away?
Who says there's going to be a vote? The only time I can remember the Order do anything resembling voting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0896.html), the point was to legitimize and let them all buy into a decision Roy had already made and wasn't going to change.

[EccentricFellow]

Wahahahahahahaha. That was priceless. It worked perfectly.

[Grimly Feendish]

I suppose as he wanders the outer planes Julio might happen across Xykon's purpose built Citadel/Dungeon and return to the Order just in time to tell them how to get there. Or would that be too far fetched?

[Jay R]

I suppose as he wanders the outer planes Julio might happen across Xykon's purpose built Citadel/Dungeon and return to the Order just in time to tell them how to get there. Or would that be too far fetched?

It's not too far-fetched, just completely irrelevant. His real phylactery isn't there; Redcloak has it.

There is nothing of value in that fortress.

[ORione]

Interesting. Now that I think of it, I don't think Durkon or Roy have seen Blackwing before. And Elan and Belkar are stupid enough to forget him, so I guess that explains that.

[Tragak]

Which would be what we had with Scoundrel the last time, and far stronger reason to believe he was not coming back. I found it! :smallbiggrin:

[Grimly Feendish]

It's not too far-fetched, just completely irrelevant. His real phylactery isn't there; Redcloak has it.

There is nothing of value in that fortress.

But only Redcloak knows that so the Order might go there following wrong information. Also if Xykon gets hurt he may retreat there to lick his wounds.

[brionl]

Heh, I've read the start of darkness.
Great book. Perhaps a mistake to read it before I read the main OOTS comic, because now I sympathize with redcloak too much :smallbiggrin:
EDIT:
But really, how did he voice the tilde? I'm interested because it interupted the monologue in my head

Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bpIbdZhrzA

[Doug Lampert]

Heh, I've read the start of darkness.
Great book. Perhaps a mistake to read it before I read the main OOTS comic, because now I sympathize with redcloak too much :smallbiggrin:

Spoilered due to TSoD discussion.

Redcloak, in TSoD, murders his own brother in cold blood so as to save the single entity that kills more goblinoids then anyone else in the comic.

He does this in the name of goblin liberation and rights.

He claims that he needs to commit crimes of this magnitude so as to save goblins from things like, himself. Right Eye gives a fine example of a goblin community living at peace with the surrounding humans prior to the future Wrong Eye showing up and leading Xykon to it.

That would be the same Right Eye he murders to preserve the same Xykon so Xykon can presumably FINISH murdering the rest of his relatives and their friends and neighbors.

Based on the comic I might foolishly assume that Wrong Eye actually HAS a workable plan and a real chance of success rather than simply being insanely committed to the sunk costs fallacy. But thanks to TSoD I know better. It killed my sympathy to read it, as it's obvious that RC is his own cause's second worst enemy. (The Dark One gets to be number one since the Dark One is the source of Wrong Eye's plan, power, and longevity and will probably repeat the whole fiasco if he has the chance after Wrong Eye gets what's coming to him.)

He's willing to risk the destruction of the souls of every goblin to "better" the goblin's fate. He conspires with someone who murders goblins out of boredom to make things "better" for goblins. He finds a kingdom of goblinoids living in reasonable security, and ONLY gets 10,000 of them killed as part of his quest to help goblinoids PRIOR to coming to the STUNNING epiphany that Hobgoblins are Goblinoids too!

I save my sympathy for Red Cloak's victims, who are quite literally legion, and will only grow in numbers until he is stopped.

[ORione]

^You might want to put that under a spoiler.

[Amphiox]

It's not too far-fetched, just completely irrelevant. His real phylactery isn't there; Redcloak has it.

There is nothing of value in that fortress.

If it's completely irrelevant, why did The Giant devote time to describe and draw it? After all, even the Polearm merchant got a callback.


I assume that, as a bard, he is refusing to let Haley's reveal interfere with his "I was too late to say good-bye" monologue.

Julio is using that can for a reason.

The can is, obviously, Julio's new sidearm. It's actually a +6 Can of Chaos Whoopass (turns into a hand cannon when you flip it around.)

Would a Chaotic Neutral scoundrel give away is primary weapon if he didn't already have an equal or better replacement?

[orrion]

He made exit plans before. Didn't stick, did they? Why should these stick?

I think all those reasons were debated and put to rest long ago, such as Elan contacting Julio for specifically countering Tarquin.



Everything is a plane in D&D. Some planes vary in size, but we start with the prime material, and work out from there. As to access, a lot of planes are inaccessable, until... Scoundrel finds a sign saying "do not enter. Very dangerous", or "Keep out. Private harem/treasury of Lord Jerk the Rich/lusty." or we just have an accidental wormhole leading into it, or ... We just need a magic dohickey and in he goes.

He's retiring or at least on vacation. Even assuming such a sign exists, why would he care? It's not like his alignment compels him to fight the good fight.

Besides, you yourself posited the scenario as the Order encoutering "the retried Scoundrel [who is just touring the planes..]." He'd hardly be retired if he saw any of those signs and decided to act. This is the problem with your arguments here. You're trying to hard to BS a way for Scoundrel to show up again that you're contradicting yourself from post to post.



When Elan has to identify it in text as foreshadowing, it is rather feeble foreshadowing.

Redcloak identified his lampshade hanging to the point of bringing in a physical lampshade, and that wasn't a feeble lampshade at all. Elan points out tropes and techniques all the time, and he's not the only one. In short, such naming or pointing out is a common element in OOTS and doing so is not indicative of the strength or weakness of said technique.



Which would be what we had with Scoundrel the last time, and far stronger reason to believe he was not coming back.

I seriously doubt many others were as blindsided as you appear to be about it, and I similarly doubt many others are as fanatical on the subject.


Not really. I don't expect him back, just like I didn't before.

Oh? Does this mean you're revising your previous stance that Julio is definitely going to come back and wreck the narrative? You were arguing that for several weeks.



What I am saying is that there is no valid reason to say he is not coming back.

There are plenty of valid reasons. Some of them relate back to the stance that Julio showing up here was for a specific reason and it was set up as such. All you're doing here is randomly throwing out ways for him to show up for no reason whatsoever.


If it's completely irrelevant, why did The Giant devote time to describe and draw it? After all, even the Polearm merchant got a callback.

I think you're going to have a hard time if you want to take the stance that anything mentioned in the comic is going to get some mention in the future. There's all kinds of one-offs that haven't gotten call backs (like, everything else in that town, Haley's gemstones, Elan's wizard outfit, the 5 worthless rocks that Haley suckered the party into taking, etc, etc, etc, etc).

Besides, the fortress isn't completely irrelevant to Xykon. Just for the party.

[zimmerwald1915]

If it's completely irrelevant, why did The Giant devote time to describe and draw it? After all, even the Polearm merchant got a callback.
Possibilities include, but are not limited to: to attract fan speculation, to just make a pretty image, and to explain where Xykon had buggered off to in the early chapters of Blood Runs in the Family. None of these possibilities requires that anybody visit the fortress ever again.

[DaggerPen]

Poor Julio, living in a time before advanced sound effects and recording devices.

I love your icon.


Redcloak, in TSoD, murders his own brother in cold blood so as to save the single entity that kills more goblinoids then anyone else in the comic.

He does this in the name of goblin liberation and rights.

He claims that he needs to commit crimes of this magnitude so as to save goblins from things like, himself. Right Eye gives a fine example of a goblin community living at peace with the surrounding humans prior to the future Wrong Eye showing up and leading Xykon to it.

That would be the same Right Eye he murders to preserve the same Xykon so Xykon can presumably FINISH murdering the rest of his relatives and their friends and neighbors.

Based on the comic I might foolishly assume that Wrong Eye actually HAS a workable plan and a real chance of success rather than simply being insanely committed to the sunk costs fallacy. But thanks to TSoD I know better. It killed my sympathy to read it, as it's obvious that RC is his own cause's second worst enemy. (The Dark One gets to be number one since the Dark One is the source of Wrong Eye's plan, power, and longevity and will probably repeat the whole fiasco if he has the chance after Wrong Eye gets what's coming to him.)

He's willing to risk the destruction of the souls of every goblin to "better" the goblin's fate. He conspires with someone who murders goblins out of boredom to make things "better" for goblins. He finds a kingdom of goblinoids living in reasonable security, and ONLY gets 10,000 of them killed as part of his quest to help goblinoids PRIOR to coming to the STUNNING epiphany that Hobgoblins are Goblinoids too!

I save my sympathy for Red Cloak's victims, who are quite literally legion, and will only grow in numbers until he is stopped.

Yes, but at least he doesn't post spoilers outside of spoiler tags. :smalltongue:

(More seriously, while a lot of people have been SOD spoiled by this point - please use the spoiler tags for those who haven't been.)

[orrion]

Redcloak, in TSoD, murders his own brother in cold blood so as to save the single entity that kills more goblinoids then anyone else in the comic.

He does this in the name of goblin liberation and rights.

He claims that he needs to commit crimes of this magnitude so as to save goblins from things like, himself. Right Eye gives a fine example of a goblin community living at peace with the surrounding humans prior to the future Wrong Eye showing up and leading Xykon to it.

That would be the same Right Eye he murders to preserve the same Xykon so Xykon can presumably FINISH murdering the rest of his relatives and their friends and neighbors.

Based on the comic I might foolishly assume that Wrong Eye actually HAS a workable plan and a real chance of success rather than simply being insanely committed to the sunk costs fallacy. But thanks to TSoD I know better. It killed my sympathy to read it, as it's obvious that RC is his own cause's second worst enemy. (The Dark One gets to be number one since the Dark One is the source of Wrong Eye's plan, power, and longevity and will probably repeat the whole fiasco if he has the chance after Wrong Eye gets what's coming to him.)

He's willing to risk the destruction of the souls of every goblin to "better" the goblin's fate. He conspires with someone who murders goblins out of boredom to make things "better" for goblins. He finds a kingdom of goblinoids living in reasonable security, and ONLY gets 10,000 of them killed as part of his quest to help goblinoids PRIOR to coming to the STUNNING epiphany that Hobgoblins are Goblinoids too!

I save my sympathy for Red Cloak's victims, who are quite literally legion, and will only grow in numbers until he is stopped.

Actually, I think Redcloak himself has killed more goblinoids. He was killing off hobgoblins left and right before the march on Azure City and thousands more died than needed in the actual battle because he didn't rush the broken wall to start with.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Oddly to our ears, the Poop deck is at the other end of a ship. (Insert your own joke here). This could provide plenty of material for a pun battle, but somehow I don't think The Giant will go there. :smalltongue:

"Poop" comes from the same Latin root as pulpit--Roman naval commanders used the place to harangue the troops.

[Ramien]

Plus if we never see it on-panel those of us who want to can pretend it never happened, and that Roy's obvious reactions to it are just based on observations and deductions he made on his own :smalltongue:

Really? I thought you were going to go for 'V phrased it in the most self-serving way possible so as to make Roy aware of the threat without directly acknowledging guilt or wrongdoing of any kind in order to save his/her precious dignity in front of others.' :smalltongue:

That's mostly because I'm actually interested in seeing how much guilt V publicly admits to, and why I'd like to see V explain it to Roy it on-panel.

[zimmerwald1915]

Really? I thought you were going to go for 'V phrased it in the most self-serving way possible so as to make Roy aware of the threat without directly acknowledging guilt or wrongdoing of any kind in order to save his/her precious dignity in front of others.' :smalltongue:

That's mostly because I'm actually interested in seeing how much guilt V publicly admits to, and why I'd like to see V explain it to Roy it on-panel.
We'll see how it plays out :smallsmile:

[Link]

I love your icon.



Yes, but at least he doesn't post spoilers outside of spoiler tags. :smalltongue:

(More seriously, while a lot of people have been SOD spoiled by this point - please use the spoiler tags for those who haven't been.)
there are still people who havent been spoiled yet? huh.

[Doug Lampert]

Actually, I think Redcloak himself has killed more goblinoids. He was killing off hobgoblins left and right before the march on Azure City and thousands more died than needed in the actual battle because he didn't rush the broken wall to start with.

I'll give you that he's responsible for more deaths, especially since he's fairly directly responsible for X's existence, but I think X has probably actually killed more. However, I'll freely put Wrong Eye above the big X on the race for the goblinoid kill title.

I think we can agree that this does not really improve his standings in the "uplifter and savior of the goblinoid peoples" sweepstakes. Which is the one he claims to want to win and to have made all those sacrifices for.

Of course those sacrifices are of his fellow goblins and goblinoids, the one and only goblinoid Wrong Eye has consistently not sacrificed is himself, but that's to be expected since he's an evil hypocritical cowardly scum who can't face what he's done and become.

[Kolero]

Wait a second... When have I heard about Jolio Scoundrel having something to do with a soupcan before...?

SSDT Spoiler:
Wasn't he suppose to be searching for a "cosmic soupcan"? Didn't the giant say something about having to write in the soup can as part of a kickstarted reward story? This strip would make a great setup for a later story involving it.

Also, while a voiceover in a mundane can is all fine and good. Imagine what his voice would sound like through a cosmic soupcan. Suddenly it makes sense that Elan doesn't see him.

[J's]

Not that it will go that far, but I'm 90% certain they are discussing what V did that fateful lunchtime, and that 944 will cover it.

The long dark teatime of the soul(s)


What, you're not looking forward to it?

Well if we follow current momentum first panel of #944 will involve a watercloset, so I could skip it too.

[MrMercury]

Eh, I actually support redcloak. Like I said, I read the start of darkness before the main comic, but yeah. Go redcloak. :smalltongue:

[oppyu]

All hail Redcloak! I'm still kinda hoping that this story ends with Redcloak successfully enabling the Dark One to blackmail the Gods into giving the goblins better stuff, the world remaining intact, and the Order shrugging and going off to do something else after destroying Xykon.

[factotum]

I suppose as he wanders the outer planes Julio might happen across Xykon's purpose built Citadel/Dungeon and return to the Order just in time to tell them how to get there. Or would that be too far fetched?

Xykon's citadel isn't in the Outer Planes--it's somewhere on the Astral Plane, which is a different location entirely.

[HeeJay]

Well, of course Julio will return and solve all their problems!

With his finely tuned dramatic instinct, he will choose just the right moment to check on Elan, using Arborea's epic scrying pool, and will plane shift to save the Order as a lame Deus Ex Arborea. Really, Giant's writing is just SO bad!


Are you really sure you are kidding? We had much better reason to think we had seen the last of Scoundrel last time.

We were most certainly joking when we wrote that post.

[The Shadow]

A lot of people are taking Haley's words about Blackwing at face value, but I find them very suspicious.

Not that I think Haley is lying. I think she's rationalizing. She is now remembering Blackwing and her subconscious has to come up with a reason why she didn't recognize him before.

Why is she now remembering him? Because she, and the rest of the Order, have now looked into the rift as well. (Apparently they weren't affected the same way as Blackwing, probably because they made their saves.)

The one flaw I can see in my theory is that V never forgot Blackwing, but then he IS on V's character sheet. :) And the alternative is to think that the Giant deliberately drew attention to Blackwing's status at the start of this book, only to lamely drop that mystery with a thud at the end. Not buying it; he's a better storyteller than that. Mark my words: Even if my theory is wrong, there's still something more going on with Blackwing than this strip implies.

[Porthos]

Not buying it; he's a better storyteller than that.

Not really gonna address the rest, but I do want to point out that as I look at your Join Date you should know as well as I do that whenever that card is pulled out of the deck, it is almost always wrong. :smalltongue:

Might want to re-examine your stance in light of that. :smallwink:

[dakameleon]

Late to this, but had to pop in to say: oh dear god, best laugh out of OotS in a while with those last few panels :smallbiggrin:. Can't wait for the Kickstarter Julio Scoundrel story!

[oppyu]

Not really gonna address the rest, but I do want to point out that as I look at your Join Date you should know as well as I do that whenever that card is pulled out of the deck, it is almost always wrong. :smalltongue:

Might want to re-examine your stance in light of that. :smallwink:
So a Pixie says that Rich is a better story-writer than that, and your response is that people who assume Rich is better than something are almost always wrong? :smalltongue:

[Dracon1us]

Who says there's going to be a vote? The only time I can remember the Order do anything resembling voting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0896.html), the point was to legitimize and let them all buy into a decision Roy had already made and wasn't going to change.

well the V. situation is pretty huge.

I don't think Elan would be comfortable without a proper atonement

[Storm_Of_Snow]

I always assumed it would be off-screen. Because we, the audience, don't need to see V describing what she did, as we've already seen it, and we also don't need to see V describing the aftermath with respect to his own feelings and character growth, because we've already seen that too. All we need to see is Roy's reaction, and that can be seen in the panels after the off-screen reveal.

Me too - although I thought we'd end a strip with V saying something like "I must tell you all something...", and the next strip opening with everyone's reactions (V looking contrite, Roy and Belkar open mouthed with shock, Haley and Elan comforting each other, Durkon probably being stoic).


I suppose as he wanders the outer planes Julio might happen across Xykon's purpose built Citadel/Dungeon and return to the Order just in time to tell them how to get there. Or would that be too far fetched?
Xykon's fortress is on the astral plane, not any of the outer ones.

There's a possibility he might go past it on his way to Arboria - if he chooses to go via the Astral plane and gets "win the lottery every week for the next decade" lucky. Even then, he probably won't know what it is, who owns it, or what it's significance compared to all the other astral plane fortresses built by other people is.

The only way the Order's getting there is if they follow Xykon through a gate that lands them there, Xykon retreats there and they get the exact location from someone, say, The Oracle, or Elan uses his "the scene calls out to you" feat (the one he used on the Mechane to find Haley before Nale could kill her), that allows the hero(es) to arrive at the dramatically correct point and time, even if they don't know where it is when they start, or why they need to go there. :smallwink:

[Itrogash]

Huh, so we are over with party members ignoring Blackwing. I'd love to see more interaction.

Food for thought: if Greek pantheon is entirely dead, what deities inhabit Arborea? And, for that matter, what other Outer Planes from Great Circle cosmology, apart from Arborea and Celestial Realm exist in OOTS cosmology?

[Gift Jeraff]

Huh, so we are over with party members ignoring Blackwing. I'd love to see more interaction.

Food for thought: if Greek pantheon is entirely dead, what deities inhabit Arborea? And, for that matter, what other Outer Planes from Great Circle cosmology, apart from Arborea and Celestial Realm exist in OOTS cosmology?

The whole Great Circle cosmology seems to exist in OOTS.

-Roy mentions several in Panel 8 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0669.html)
-The Nine Hells (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0631.html)
-Mechanus/Nirvana is seen and Pandemonium is mentioned here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0646.html)
-The Dark One seems to reside in Acheron (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0704.html)
-Tarterus is mentioned in the last panel (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0828.html)

And I think I remember Arcadia being mentioned at some point.

[Oko and Qailee]

Who says there's going to be a vote? The only time I can remember the Order do anything resembling voting (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0896.html), the point was to legitimize and let them all buy into a decision Roy had already made and wasn't going to change.

You don't know for certain that Roy wouldn't have let the vote pass. We've never had an opportunity for Roy to go back on a voted on issue, so we don't have a status quo.

Roy has called a "vote", sort of, before when he tore up the contracts regarding Xykon and the entire party still went with him.

At this point it's clear the entire party is going to go with what Roy says simply because he's got a good track record going for him and the right combination of qualities that makes him a good leader. Like Belkar said they were useless while he took their dirt nap (not true ofc, but from their perspective it is).

[Breccia]

A bit of characterization of Elan I like in this strip:

In panel 4, Bandana is clearly handing Elan both the letter and the Chaos Sabre. In the very next panel, Elan is reading the letter (or is it blank? not sure...) and the Chaos Sabre is leaning against the railing eight feet away. Then, after being directly told the Chaos Sabre was his, he still focuses on Julio's message about vacation plans, and the Chaos Sabre is still leaning against the railing. Elan doesn't even glance at it.

If Roy, Belkar, Haley or V were flat-out handed a powerful combat upgrade, there is a zero percent chance they'd leave it precariously close to the edge of a flying ship, traveling quickly over landmark-less desert. Hell, Roy and maybe V would have stopped mid-message and given the weapon a few practice swings. Belkar would have flat-out stabbed someone with it without even touching the paper. And we've all seen "GIVE ME MY STAFF!" so whe know where Count Chocul*cough*Durkon's motives lie.Most players would be writing "Chaos Sabre +5" on their character sheet while the DM was still reading the message.

But not Elan. Elan doesn't care about combat. And in the world he lives in, and the story he's involved in, that's special.

[ORione]

And we've all seen "GIVE ME MY STAFF!" so whe know where Count Chocul*cough*Durkon's motives lie.

Well, the staff's not just a weapon. Durkon's (un)life depended on getting it back.

[Amphiox]

Possibilities include, but are not limited to: to attract fan speculation, to just make a pretty image, and to explain where Xykon had buggered off to in the early chapters of Blood Runs in the Family. None of these possibilities requires that anybody visit the fortress ever again.

Ah, but none of these possibilities PRECLUDE the fortress being visited in the future, which by definition makes the fortress not irrelevant.


Well, the staff's not just a weapon. Durkon's (un)life depended on getting it back.

This is actually a clue concerning the debate about Durkon's desires. If he had not wanted to remain a vampire, he could have let himself be dusted. Instead he fought to get the staff back. This at least suggests, if not definitely proves, that the entity in side Durkon, at this moment, wants to continue existing in its current state.

[Kish]

Ah, but none of these possibilities PRECLUDE the fortress being visited in the future, which by definition makes the fortress not irrelevant.

That doesn't make any sense. The Order could visit the halfling village where Hank was born; that doesn't mean that village is (present tense) relevant.

I do not believe we will be treated to multiple strips of the Order battling their way through the astral fortress, because it would just pointlessly frustrate the audience in a way Rich has never done. It is my opinion that if Rich meant for the Order to have an entire sub-arc dedicated to fighting their way through that fortress because Rich has the stageset now and it would be a waste not to use it, he would have put the "Redcloak switched phylacteries" reveal at the end of that sub-arc, not right up front. I also wonder how you're using the word "irrelevant" and whether it coincides with the usage of the person you responded to; are you arguing that the Order will go to the astral fortress at some point, or just that the astral fortress may be mentioned again in the story in some way?


This is actually a clue concerning the debate about Durkon's desires. If he had not wanted to remain a vampire, he could have let himself be dusted. Instead he fought to get the staff back. This at least suggests, if not definitely proves, that the entity in side Durkon, at this moment, wants to continue existing in its current state.
That also doesn't make any sense. Not wanting to be burned to ash by the sun while the rest of the Order was in battle proves and suggests substantially less than already established simply by his not immediately committing suicide once he regained his free will. Clearly he did not welcome destruction while the Order was in battle and the world was still at stake, but we already knew that.

[Breccia]

Well, the staff's not just a weapon. Durkon's (un)life depended on getting it back.


Sorry, I should have emphasized the "MY" part of "GIVE ME MY STAFF!" to make my point more clear. Yes, Durkula didn't want to burst into flame, but he had clearly accepted the potent magic item, which he had inherited but minutes before, as his own.

[Shale]

I'm not ruling out the Order going to the astral fortress, but if they do it won't be for the phylactery. There'd be something else making it relevant - Xykon retreats there, or maybe MITD's astral-plane history comes into play, but not just a wild-goose chase for Redcloak's (fake) old holy symbol. I trust Rich not to do a version of the Fake Namek arc.

[Sir_Leorik]

Wait a second... When have I heard about Jolio Scoundrel having something to do with a soupcan before...?

SSDT Spoiler:
Wasn't he suppose to be searching for a "cosmic soupcan"? Didn't the giant say something about having to write in the soup can as part of a kickstarted reward story? This strip would make a great setup for a later story involving it.

Also, while a voiceover in a mundane can is all fine and good. Imagine what his voice would sound like through a cosmic soupcan. Suddenly it makes sense that Elan doesn't see him.

Could this truly be the Cosmic Soupcan? (I think it's a proper name, like Infinity Gauntlet, Cosmic Cube, Anti-Life Equation or Restaurant at the End of the Universe.) We may need to wait until the Julio Scoundrel comic from the Kickstarter comes out!


Food for thought: if Greek pantheon is entirely dead, what deities inhabit Arborea? And, for that matter, what other Outer Planes from Great Circle cosmology, apart from Arborea and Celestial Realm exist in OOTS cosmology?

Probably the Elven Pantheon, just like in the Planescape/Great Wheel cosmology.