Is a Dragon wildshape theme shooting myself in the foot?

[deathwolf669]

As a level 12 dragonborn druild with VoP.

I was thinking of only allowing myself to change into non chromatic dragons as part of a theme or is this going to be shooting myself in the foot and limiting the best use of this feat?

From what I have read people have said Shadow Dragons are better, so should I be using the powers of evil as a weapon to destroy it or is there a better Metalic/gem dragon?

[eggynack]

By non-chromatic, do you just mean dragons that aren't those specific chromatic dragons? If so, it shouldn't be all that problematic, cause chromatic dragons aren't all that great. My list barely even has any chromatic dragons on it, and I'm not even sure if those few are justified.

[Sith_Happens]

The main problem you're up against is that true dragons' hit dice scale much faster than linearly, while your Wild Shape hit die cap is linear. This means that even if you weren't explicitly restricted to small and medium dragon forms, the numbers you get from your dragon forms would still severely lag behind those of other creature types.

Consequently, getting any significant benefit from Dragon Wild Shape requires picking dragon forms with abilities that are still useful with gimped scaling. That's why Shadow Dragon is so often recommended; it only takes one or two negative levels to really cramp someone's style, and the stealth abilities are icing on the cake.

[deathwolf669]

eggynack > I thought all chromatic dragons were on the side of Tiamat or is it just a specific few?

Sith, I have been looking at a few different abilities that are on offer from dragons so I will use them as and when I need too, like the brass dragons ability to take any form :D

[eggynack]

eggynack > I thought all chromatic dragons were on the side of Tiamat or is it just a specific few?
That's accurate, I think. My question is if your limitation is just that you won't become black, blue, green, red, or white dragons. If that's your exact and only limit here, then I would say that the power you derive from dragon wild shape will be pretty much the same as anyone else's. If you have other limitations, then that could change things. The thing is, none of the chromatic dragons really do anything all that great.


Sith, I have been looking at a few different abilities that are on offer from dragons so I will use them as and when I need too, like the brass dragons ability to take any form :D
What ability is that now? I don't see ridiculous form taking anywhere on the list of brass dragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonTrue.htm#brassDragon) abilities.

[kirerellim]

Do you mean the any medium or smaller animal or humanoid form of silver dragons?

[deathwolf669]

I meant bronze dragon, not brass.

I am guessing if I rule out all chromatic dragons the feat really takes a dive.

So other than shadow dragon which ones are worth taking?

[eggynack]

I am guessing if I rule out all chromatic dragons the feat really takes a dive.
Aren't those five the only chromatic dragons? If so, then I'm actively saying that the feat won't take a dive. At all. I'm pretty sure that becoming chromatic dragons is suboptimal.


So other than shadow dragon which ones are worth taking?
I already linked you to the resource I generally use for this sort of thing. If you like, I can PM you the druid handbook I've been working on, which doesn't have that much more information on this specific thing, but does have fancy page citations.

[deathwolf669]

Ah I miss read about the deep dragon, so guess there are no other ones :D

By link do you mean the one to WhamBamSam's post?

[eggynack]

Ah I miss read about the deep dragon, so guess there are no other ones :D
Quite so. Not much of a limitation at all, really.


By link do you mean the one to WhamBamSam's post?
Indeed I do. My dragon list honestly isn't much more expansive than that one, especially because that list is what informed the construction of my list. Pretty much the only thing I've added is lung dragons, cause lung dragons are cool. I also contributed the fact that you can use spells from the gaseous form of a mist dragon in that thread, which I don't think is a fact present directly in his posts, so that's a thing.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Does Dragon Wildshape restricts you to True dragon forms or can you take the form of any creature with the Dragon type? Because that could open somethings like the Jungle Landwyrm from Draconomicon (I am not sure how useful it is, since I only checked for size) or the Planar Dragons (as long as you don't select a dragon from an evil plane everything should be OK).

[Werephilosopher]

Aren't those five the only chromatic dragons? If so, then I'm actively saying that the feat won't take a dive. At all. I'm pretty sure that becoming chromatic dragons is suboptimal.

Actually, Dragon Compendium has three chromatic dragons that aren't aligned with Tiamat despite being evil, and they're all pretty good as far as I can tell. Orange dragons can shoot a gob of spit that explodesin a 15 foot burst 2 rounds after it hits, and the damage is untyped. Yellow dragons breathe a cone of salt that encrusts targets, reducing a number of stats, and it needs 10 minutes or a gallon of water to remove. Purple dragons have three breath weapons: a cone of "searing energy," a burst of light that permanently blinds on a failed fortitude save, and an energy blade that can make melee touch attacks and ignores physical barriers.

[deathwolf669]

Tis a shame not all the lung dragons are small enough to use.

I am probably only going to look at Bronze, Silver, Shadow, Rust, Mercury, Mist, Sapphire and a Lung dragon.

[eggynack]

Does Dragon Wildshape restricts you to True dragon forms or can you take the form of any creature with the Dragon type? Because that could open somethings like the Jungle Landwyrm from Draconomicon (I am not sure how useful it is, since I only checked for size) or the Planar Dragons (as long as you don't select a dragon from an evil plane everything should be OK).
There's no restriction to true dragons, though most lesser dragons tend to be notably lesser, and some, like the jungle landwyrm you mentioned, are unfortunately too large for this purpose. The way true dragons are structured means that many have low age categories that can support wild shape, but non-true dragons tend to lack that structure, and are often thus ironically made out of size-reach due to their un-true nature. For example, out of the landwyrm, only the plains landwyrms, only the plains landwyrm is of suitable size. Planar dragons are pretty much true dragons though, and are appropriately sweet as a result.

[deathwolf669]

Werephilosopher > I missed your post. I take it the dragon compendium is from dragon magazine?


EDIT: Well just been told I cannot take VoP and should look at both PHBs to build a character, guess my druid just got screwed!

[Crake]

Limiting yourself to chromatic dragons makes you miss out on deep dragons, which have permanent true seeing as an Su ability.

[deathwolf669]

Crake, I didn't say I would limit myself to chromatic but that I would not use them.

[Irk]

Wait, this is a potentially great idea! You can use the best exalted feat ever! Exalted wild shape. This'll let you turn into celestial forms of the dragons you wildshape into. Seems whatever, right? that is, until your read more of it and find that it says:

You gain the extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the creature.
That's right, you turn into a celestial dragon and get its supernatural AND extraordinary abilities! have fun!

[Deophaun]

Wait, this is a potentially great idea! You can use the best exalted feat ever! Exalted wild shape. This'll let you turn into celestial forms of the dragons you wildshape into. Seems whatever, right? that is, until your read more of it and find that it says:

That's right, you turn into a celestial dragon and get its supernatural AND extraordinary abilities! have fun!
Doesn't work with Dragon Wild Shape, in any capacity, as you didn't quote the sentence right in front of it:

You can also turn into a celestial version of any animal you could normally transform into. (At the DM's discretion, other magical beast forms might be available to you. In general, only creatures of CR 3 or lower are possible.)

[eggynack]

Also doesn't work in the other capacity, where it gives you interesting stuff if it works, because, per dragon wild shape, "You gain all the extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the dragon whose form you take."

[Irk]

Doesn't work with Dragon Wild Shape, in any capacity, as you didn't quote the sentence right in front of it:

Also doesn't work in the other capacity, where it gives you interesting stuff if it works, because, per dragon wild shape, "You gain all the extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the dragon whose form you take."
Sometimes I wish that I could be at least a little bit smart. Alright, I'll try to contribute in an actual way.

The incarnum dragon can provide you with soulmelds, which is definitely pretty cool, even if they're from the soulborn list.