I need to make sure I am not given a bad time...

[TwentyFold]

Elloz,
I need help, mainly because there is a controversy between me and my role playing group (at least some of them). Upon several requests, I am going to play a druid in the next campaign (3.5) after we are done with RotR (pathfinder campaign). This is of course, as you all know, slightly a bad idea as it overshadows all, and can even overshadow some classes that are considered the most amazing in that role, and that is why i received a handicap: Shapeshift Druid.

My DM declared that all wildshape is banned (but not all animal companions for other classes) and I am not allowed to optimize to heavily (which I just cant do apparently). I dont want to piss off all my party, but i also dont want to just seem like I am breaking my legs every level to make sure noone is Butthurt.

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My class consists of:

A shadowcaster, Vow of nonviolence, Primorial Template, Goliath. (Main DeBuff)

A possible Psychic Warrior (Main Melee)/ A possible Shaper (Minion Master)

Unknown...

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Meanwhile, the restrictions of the campaign are:

No Choosing of feats that may create Unfair cercumstances (Troll Blooded for taking no nonelethal ect.)

We must all be of an age around 15-17 yrs, (using rules that dictate Elves have similar body structure to any other humanoid race that age, but still considered adults at norm time).

No Homebrew (worse so far, wanted to play a certain class).

Some Ebberon aspects are included but: No Warforged, nor Kalashatar. (No Elans either) So essentially No: Aliens, Robots, and Abberations.

Don't intentionally piss on the party (literally or non-literally). :smallwink:

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That is simply my predicament, if there is any mistakes to this question, then feel free to let me know. Any Help would be thanked Especially.

Thank You to those who help,
TwentyFold8

[evilserran]

i was going to help, then iread the post...

No Choosing of feats that may create Unfair cercumstances (Troll Blooded for taking no nonelethal ect.)

...my mind boggles if this is something your group considers OP that it needs to be banned. In five years of playing i have only seen non lethal damage used a handful of times.

That being said, if you can't wildshape focus on spells and even, longbows. If you focus on the both, wis would be your highest stat so go for zen archery. then use your spells to buff and battlefield control. I dont really know how to go more specific based on things i think are silly like the trollblood, but your group considers op'd..

[Gemini476]

i was going to help, then iread the post...

No Choosing of feats that may create Unfair cercumstances (Troll Blooded for taking no nonelethal ect.)

...my mind boggles if this is something your group considers OP that it needs to be banned. In five years of playing i have only seen non lethal damage used a handful of times.

That being said, if you can't wildshape focus on spells and even, longbows. If you focus on the both, wis would be your highest stat so go for zen archery. then use your spells to buff and battlefield control. I dont really know how to go more specific based on things i think are silly like the trollblood, but your group considers op'd..
Troll blooded gives you Regeneration bypassed by Acid and Fire.

That means that all non-fire non-acid damage is non-lethal.

If you get immunity to Fire damage and immunity to Acid, all damage you take is non-lethal.

If you get immunity to non-lethal (without losing your CON score), you are immune to damage.

[eggynack]

Well, it looks like all things outside of spell and summoning optimization is cut off. Fortunately, those are the best kind of druid optimization. So, what kinda things do you wanna do with your spells, keeping in mind the fact that you can do pretty much anything you want with them? Also worth note is the fact that prestige classes are opened up a bit, because the only thing left to advance is casting, because shapeshift is the worst. Some worthwhile prestige classes that you can enter despite your restrictions include moonspeaker (RoE, 143, though you'll presumably have to ditch the wild shape advancement, maybe for shapeshift advancement), hathran (PGtF, 59, utterly broken), contemplative (CD, 30), divine oracle (CD, 34), holt warden (CC, 84), sacred exorcist (CD, 56), seeker of the misty isle (CD, 61), and talantor blightlord (UE, 34). Everything after hathran is mostly a one level dip. Anyways, final thing of note, what are your book restrictions/level? It is an important thing.

[Grod_The_Giant]

If you take the other Druid ACF in the PHB 2 (I don't remember the name; it's the one to swap spontaneous summoning out for some sort of fast healing thingie), you'll have lost most of the things that make the Druid really unfair. From there, you should be fine with standard mid-op choices.

[Zweisteine]

If you're playing a Druid on request, and then given restrictions, play something else. Seriously.

Do you get to keep your animal companion? If you don't, you're better off playing a cleric. A Druid without wild shape and his companion is no Druid at all, unless you get ACFs to replace them.

The best way to avoid overshadowing your fitness is to be a support caster. Ask for wild shape back, but say you won't use it to go combat-crazy. Be a bird to stay out of your enemies' reach, and caš spells to make killing ten easier for everyone else.

Instead of completely eliminating our opponents, buff your allies. Enlarge the fighter, Haste the rogue, etc. Use entangle to keep your enemies from using tactics too much, and generally keep them weakened, but not truly out of the fight (don't paralyze them, for example).

[HammeredWharf]

A druid with Shapeshift is still a T1 caster. Of course, a cleric without restrictions is a bit better, but it's mostly a matter of taste. If it's ok, swap Shapechange for something more useful, like Aspect of the Dragon, Deadly Hunter or Shifter Druid. They allow you to keep your animal companion, so you could use it as a mount.

[evilserran]

Troll blooded gives you Regeneration bypassed by Acid and Fire.

That means that all non-fire non-acid damage is non-lethal.

If you get immunity to Fire damage and immunity to Acid, all damage you take is non-lethal.

If you get immunity to non-lethal (without losing your CON score), you are immune to damage.

oooooohhhhhhhh thats so much more op, no wonder its banned then, but i think you could understand my earlier confusion based on his post lol

[eggynack]

If you're playing a Druid on request, and then given restrictions, play something else. Seriously.

Do you get to keep your animal companion? If you don't, you're better off playing a cleric. A Druid without wild shape and his companion is no Druid at all, unless you get ACFs to replace them.

The best way to avoid overshadowing your fitness is to be a support caster. Ask for wild shape back, but say you won't use it to go combat-crazy. Be a bird to stay out of your enemies' reach, and caš spells to make killing ten easier for everyone else.

Instead of completely eliminating our opponents, buff your allies. Enlarge the fighter, Haste the rogue, etc. Use entangle to keep your enemies from using tactics too much, and generally keep them weakened, but not truly out of the fight (don't paralyze them, for example).
Psh. Druids are cool. You don't need all those little accessories to crush your opponents into fine powder. They just help. A druid is their spell list. Without your spell list, you are not a druid, and with your spell list, you are a druid, and that's all there is to it. Druids are resilient, and they can adapt to just about anything. Including having to take a dumb ACF.

[Crake]

If you're playing a Druid on request, and then given restrictions, play something else. Seriously.

Yeah, it doesn't really sound like you particularly want to be playing a druid, so just... don't? Why are you making a character based on what other people want you to play anyway?

[Drachasor]

Wildshape banned sucks. I think it is one of the most fun abilities in the game.

Do you get an animal companion? You seem to say other classes still get them, but you never say whether you do or don't.

[TwentyFold]

i was going to help, then iread the post...

No Choosing of feats that may create Unfair cercumstances (Troll Blooded for taking no nonelethal ect.)

...my mind boggles if this is something your group considers OP that it needs to be banned. In five years of playing i have only seen non lethal damage used a handful of times.

That being said, if you can't wildshape focus on spells and even, longbows. If you focus on the both, wis would be your highest stat so go for zen archery. then use your spells to buff and battlefield control. I dont really know how to go more specific based on things i think are silly like the trollblood, but your group considers op'd..


Troll blooded gives you Regeneration bypassed by Acid and Fire.

That means that all non-fire non-acid damage is non-lethal.

If you get immunity to Fire damage and immunity to Acid, all damage you take is non-lethal.

If you get immunity to non-lethal (without losing your CON score), you are immune to damage.


oooooohhhhhhhh thats so much more op, no wonder its banned then, but i think you could understand my earlier confusion based on his post lol
XD

Well, it looks like all things outside of spell and summoning optimization is cut off. Fortunately, those are the best kind of druid optimization. So, what kinda things do you wanna do with your spells, keeping in mind the fact that you can do pretty much anything you want with them? Also worth note is the fact that prestige classes are opened up a bit, because the only thing left to advance is casting, because shapeshift is the worst. Some worthwhile prestige classes that you can enter despite your restrictions include moonspeaker (RoE, 143, though you'll presumably have to ditch the wild shape advancement, maybe for shapeshift advancement), hathran (PGtF, 59, utterly broken), contemplative (CD, 30), divine oracle (CD, 34), holt warden (CC, 84), sacred exorcist (CD, 56), seeker of the misty isle (CD, 61), and talantor blightlord (UE, 34). Everything after hathran is mostly a one level dip. Anyways, final thing of note, what are your book restrictions/level? It is an important thing.


If you take the other Druid ACF in the PHB 2 (I don't remember the name; it's the one to swap spontaneous summoning out for some sort of fast healing thingie), you'll have lost most of the things that make the Druid really unfair. From there, you should be fine with standard mid-op choices.


A druid with Shapeshift is still a T1 caster. Of course, a cleric without restrictions is a bit better, but it's mostly a matter of taste. If it's ok, swap Shapechange for something more useful, like Aspect of the Dragon, Deadly Hunter or Shifter Druid. They allow you to keep your animal companion, so you could use it as a mount.


If you're playing a Druid on request, and then given restrictions, play something else. Seriously.

Do you get to keep your animal companion? If you don't, you're better off playing a cleric. A Druid without wild shape and his companion is no Druid at all, unless you get ACFs to replace them.

The best way to avoid overshadowing your fitness is to be a support caster. Ask for wild shape back, but say you won't use it to go combat-crazy. Be a bird to stay out of your enemies' reach, and caš spells to make killing ten easier for everyone else.

Instead of completely eliminating our opponents, buff your allies. Enlarge the fighter, Haste the rogue, etc. Use entangle to keep your enemies from using tactics too much, and generally keep them weakened, but not truly out of the fight (don't paralyze them, for example).
I will take a look

Yeah, it doesn't really sound like you particularly want to be playing a druid, so just... don't? Why are you making a character based on what other people want you to play anyway?


Psh. Druids are cool. You don't need all those little accessories to crush your opponents into fine powder. They just help. A druid is their spell list. Without your spell list, you are not a druid, and with your spell list, you are a druid, and that's all there is to it. Druids are resilient, and they can adapt to just about anything. Including having to take a dumb ACF.
I actually would like to try this, it will give me a good basis that i can compare power from now on in RPin, also it gives me an experience, which will be good as it is. I am just tryin to get tips on how to make sure my DM stops ****ting bricks of "maybe" on this idea.

[eggynack]

Wildshape banned sucks. I think it is one of the most fun abilities in the game.

Do you get an animal companion? You seem to say other classes still get them, but you never say whether you do or don't.
If the shapeshift ACF is completely forced on, then no. If it's just that wild shape is banned, and shapeshift was chosen as an alternative, then I would advise using a different ACF, as HammeredWharf does. Aspect of the dragon is probably the best option, and deadly hunter isn't bad. I'd advise against the 5th shifter druid substitution level though. It's really bad. Probably better than this though, cause you can keep your animal companion, or trade it for the actually reasonable beast spirit. You can even trade your animal companion for beast spirit, and trade your wild shape for aspect of the dragon or deadly hunter, if the animal companion actually is banned without shapeshift being forced on.

[Slipperychicken]

Those restrictions seem reasonable, so long as the GM doesn't have overzealous mid-game bans or take out half your spell list. Since you've most likely played with this GM before, I assume you know him/her better than we do.

Taking out wildshape still leaves you with T1 fullcasting and a free fighter. Even without AC or Wildshape, you're still a wisdom-based fullcaster with 3/4 BAB, a d8, plus armor and shield proficiencies. That's roughly what a Cleric gets. Use your resources intelligently, and you'll be fine.


EDIT: Also, you have basically nothing you need to spend WBL on. You don't need a +5 sword of awesome or a spellbook full of win. I bet that you can stock up on Druid scrolls and still wreck encounters like a pro, especially if you go splat-diving for good Druid spells (or consult a Druid handbook). Additionally, you can operate CLW wands and be the party healer.