We STILL don't know whether a certain member of the OOTS is female or male??

[Gift Jeraff]

Is Bloodfeast male or female? I need to know which gendered pronouns to use because I feel rude calling it "it."

[Shale]

Both Belkar and the strip titles use "he," so Bloodfeast is obviously meant to be female.

[Gift Jeraff]

Both Belkar and the strip titles use "he," so Bloodfeast is obviously meant to be female.

Well, I wouldn't trust Belkar because he admitted to knowing jack about reptilian anatomy.

But you're right about that strip title.

THREAD DONE

[Jay R]

Obviously the unknown gender of party members who are polymorphed into lizards is intended to be a running gag.

[Bird]

Bloodfeast will spontaneously change genders to procreate because Life Finds A Way.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Bloodfeast is the same exact gender as Vaarsuvius.

[The Pilgrim]

And here I was thinking you were gonna mention Blackwing's gender.

[Bulldog Psion]

Reuters has recently reported that quantum physicists from around the planet are studying the Giant in the Playground Forums for the wealth of data to be gained about Schrodinger's Gender thereon.

[hoff]

Do we know Blackwings gender anyway?

[The Pilgrim]

Most importantly...

Do we know if Blackwing is a Crow, or a Raven?

[zimmerwald1915]

More to the point... do we know if Blackwing is a Crow, or a Raven?
He's a raven. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0154.html) Yup, still a raven. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0440.html)

[The Pilgrim]

That's only how V perceives him.

[zimmerwald1915]

That's only how V perceives him.
Also Haley. See the first link.

[Trixie]

He's a raven. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0154.html) Yup, still a raven. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0440.html)

But ravens are, in fact, crows? :smallconfused:

Fun fact - raven's Greek scientific name, corax, can mean crow too, apparently.

[DaggerPen]

Reuters has recently reported that quantum physicists from around the planet are studying the Giant in the Playground Forums for the wealth of data to be gained about Schrodinger's Gender thereon.

No wonder I always spend so much time here. :smalltongue:

[ORione]

He's a raven. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0154.html) Yup, still a raven. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0440.html)

What? :smallconfused: Your second link clearly says that Blackwing is a chicken.

[Tiki Snakes]

But ravens are, in fact, crows? :smallconfused:

Fun fact - raven's Greek scientific name, corax, can mean crow too, apparently.

They are from the same family. You could say I guess that in one sense, a Raven is a crow but a crow is not always a Raven?

In fact, if I remember, they are so distinct that other birds in the crow family don't even treat them like other crows, they react to them like birds of prey? I seem to recall, anyway.

Uh, yeah. Raven is a type of crow, but is distinct from what people mean when they say "A Crow" because they mean the common crow not the entire family.

[konradknox]

Bloodfeast will spontaneously change genders to procreate because Life Finds A Way.

this wins really

[martianmister]

Thread is moot, because Bloodfeast isn't part of OotS.

[allenw]

Bloodfeast's current, polymorphed gender is not necessarily the same as his/her birth gender.
In any case, if you need a pronoun, how about "B"?

[Procyonpi]

Dude, bloodfeast is EXTREME. Bloodfeast doesn't subscribe to the gender binary!

[Dumbestupidiot]

Dude, bloodfeast is EXTREME. Bloodfeast doesn't subscribe to the gender binary!

So, Bloodfeast is breaking new barriers in gender identity as a 3rd gender? I thought that was only common in differant cultures like the navajo or something.

[brionl]

I'm not sure if Bloodfeast counts as a member yet. She's only been around for a couple of strips.

[DaggerPen]

So, Bloodfeast is breaking new barriers in gender identity as a 3rd gender? I thought that was only common in differant cultures like the navajo or something.

While a variety of non-European cultures, including many Native American cultures, have a history of a third gender construct (two-spirit, hijra, etc.), there's also a long history of gender transgression in Western culture as well, which, with the recent publicity of the LGBTA movement, has seen a variety of identities come to be described with new labels such as "genderqueer," "agender," etc.

*"The More You Know" plays across the screen*

[Peelee]

Reuters has recently reported that quantum physicists from around the planet are studying the Giant in the Playground Forums for the wealth of data to be gained about Schrodinger's Gender thereon.

Entirely off-topic mini-rant:

I really hate whenever Schrodinger's cat is brought up, because it's always seen as a valid interpretation - if a very dumbed down one - of quantum mechanics. The entire point of the analogy was to point out just how ridiculous the scenario was, as a criticism against the Copenhagen Interpretation of how quantum mechanics worked. Saying that the cat simultaneously exists in both the living and dead state until it was observed was meant to elicit a response of, "Balderdash! What utter poppycock you speak! Clearly this Bohr person is of great mental facilities but I must disagree with his current conjecture," NOT, "what splendid work this Bohr character has done! Alive and dead at the same time, you say? Why, this 'science' of which you speak surely knows no bounds, and can perform the most fantastical of feats! Quick, to the printing press with ye! The masses must be adorned withwitty garb of note!"

Though Bohr totally got a really awesome line against Einstein in an argument over it.

[Quild]

Is Bloodfeast male or female?

I wanted to answer "Yes" as if it was a question of logic, but the message was too short. Then I checked on the internet and it appears that lizards can be hermaphrodite, so it's hard to say. Also they have a cloaca, I definitely wouldn't check myself.

[Jay R]

Entirely off-topic mini-rant:

I really hate whenever Schrodinger's cat is brought up, because it's always seen as a valid interpretation - if a very dumbed down one - of quantum mechanics. The entire point of the analogy was to point out just how ridiculous the scenario was, as a criticism against the Copenhagen Interpretation of how quantum mechanics worked. Saying that the cat simultaneously exists in both the living and dead state until it was observed was meant to elicit a response of, "Balderdash! What utter poppycock you speak! Clearly this Bohr person is of great mental facilities but I must disagree with his current conjecture," NOT, "what splendid work this Bohr character has done! Alive and dead at the same time, you say? Why, this 'science' of which you speak surely knows no bounds, and can perform the most fantastical of feats! Quick, to the printing press with ye! The masses must be adorned withwitty garb of note!"

Though Bohr totally got a really awesome line against Einstein in an argument over it.

It doesn't matter what Schrödinger intended; it still works as a perfect analogy here. Bloodfeast's gender isn't merely hidden, it in indeterminate, until and unless Rich decides that it matters, and then decides what it is.

[Mr. Pants]

Well, the T-Rex in Jurassic Park was a female.

[Peelee]

It doesn't matter what Schrödinger intended; it still works as a perfect analogy here. Bloodfeast's gender isn't merely hidden, it in indeterminate, until and unless Rich decides that it matters, and then decides what it is.

While it can still work as a feasable analogy, I disgree that it works here. The issue Schrödinger (and his fancy umlauts) highlighted was that the cat in question existed in both the living and dead stats simultaneously, and was only locked into a single stat of existence when observed. Unless Bloodfeast is currently both male and female but will instantly change to a definitive gender when you look at him, it doesn't fit.

The "doesn't really fit" thing is another issue I have with its overuse.

Also, if you want to keep debating, I'd love that, but let's move it to PM. I don't wanna derail the thread solely because I got annoyed at something.

[SavageWombat]

Surely we can just look to see if Bloodfeast has a squared or rounded bottom?

[DeliaP]

Well, I wouldn't trust Belkar because he admitted to knowing jack about reptilian anatomy.

But you're right about that strip title.

THREAD DONE




Also, if you want to keep debating, I'd love that, but let's move it to PM. I don't wanna derail the thread solely because I got annoyed at something.

Given the OP was answered on the first reply (and the current rate at which sidethreads are going offtopic seems to be 'by the second page') I'm not sure you need to worry!

[Miriel]

Most importantly...

Do we know if Blackwing is a Crow, or a Raven?
Even without evidence in the story, there would be every reason for Blackwing to be a raven.

Wise, talking and magical ravens are a frequent topos in Germanic myths and litterature. As a consequence, Tolkien also uses them (cf. The Hobbit). Ultimately, this is why a raven can be a wizard's familiar in D&D, unlike a crow.

Also... the universe is inspired by D&D, and see the previous sentence.

[DeliaP]

Even without evidence in the story, there would be every reason for Blackwing to be a raven.

Wise, talking and magical ravens are a frequent topos in Germanic myths and litterature. As a consequence, Tolkien also uses them (cf. The Hobbit). Ultimately, this is why a raven can be a wizard's familiar in D&D, unlike a crow.

Also... the universe is inspired by D&D, and see the previous sentence.

Well, a talking thrush is really more plot critical to the hobbit. And eagles, of course....

[Angralad]

Well, a talking thrush is really more plot critical to the hobbit. And eagles, of course....

You know, until I saw Desolation of Smaug, I never knew what a thrush looked like. I always though it was some sort of crow. That is, assuming TH:DoS got it right.

[Domino Quartz]

You know, until I saw Desolation of Smaug, I never knew what a thrush looked like. I always though it was some sort of crow. That is, assuming TH:DoS got it right.

This is what a thrush is, according to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrush_(bird)

[DeliaP]

You know, until I saw Desolation of Smaug, I never knew what a thrush looked like. I always though it was some sort of crow. That is, assuming TH:DoS got it right.

Given TH:DoS's relationship to The Hobbit (the book), inferences about the appearance of a thrush from the movie would probably lead me to suppose a thrush was actually a four legged aquatic mammal :smallannoyed:

[Miriel]

Well, a talking thrush is really more plot critical to the hobbit. And eagles, of course....
The thrush doesn't talk. It understands Bilbo, and Bard understands thrush-language. It is the raven who talks. (Well, + the eagles, but the eagles are an other story.)

[skim172]

In fact, all the dinosaurs were cloned as female, to prevent them from breeding.

We did have to splice in strands of DNA from certain species of purple-haired elf to fill in the missing gaps. But surely this poses no complications.

Now then, off to hire just one incredibly untrustworthy guy to program all our security systems which are the singular obstacle between us and certain annihilation.

[Nightcanon]

Even without evidence in the story, there would be every reason for Blackwing to be a raven.

Wise, talking and magical ravens are a frequent topos in Germanic myths and litterature. As a consequence, Tolkien also uses them (cf. The Hobbit). Ultimately, this is why a raven can be a wizard's familiar in D&D, unlike a crow.

Also... the universe is inspired by D&D, and see the previous sentence.

Both ravens and crows are part of the Crow family (Corvidae). Interestingly, all corvids have black beaks, while Blackwing has a yellow beak and therefore looks more like a (Eurasian) blackbird (Turdus merula, which is a member of the Thrush family. What Western continent ravens look like is of course up to the Giant.

[hamishspence]

Yellow beaks on Ravens happens a bit in fictional media.

Another notable example is Maleficent's raven in Sleeping Beauty.


Both ravens and crows are part of the Crow family (Corvidae). Interestingly, all corvids have black beaks, while Blackwing has a yellow beak and therefore looks more like a (Eurasian) blackbird (Turdus merula, which is a member of the Thrush family. What Western continent ravens look like is of course up to the Giant.
Corvidae is a large family:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae

So, for that matter, is the Corvus genus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvus_(biology)

Of which the Common Raven is the type species- and other crows can be thought of as variants.

The Alpine Chough:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpine_Chough

is a corvid that could be said to resemble Blackwing - with a yellow beak and orange legs.

[Dumbestupidiot]

As to why Blackwing has a yellow beak; a wizard did it.

No, really, he originally was a chicken at the wrong place and at the wrong time and due to an unfortunate apprenticeship accident with V, an actual tower raven, and another apprentice, Their genetic material was mixed up leading to a bird with yellow beak black feathers and a feather-brained intelligence and injuring V's psyche enough that s/he came to see mastery of arcane knowledge as the ultimate goal of his/her life as V saw what non-mastery could beget every time Blackwing was summoned.

You know, either that or it's more artistically satisfying to have a bird with a yellow beak, but that doesn't seem nearly as reasonable.

[DeliaP]

The thrush doesn't talk. It understands Bilbo, and Bard understands thrush-language. It is the raven who talks. (Well, + the eagles, but the eagles are an other story.)

I guess I think of "thrushes talk thrush-language and humans can understand it" (especially given the relatively complex information communicated) being essentially the same as "thrushes can talk". But fair enough, only the ravens and eagles talk human-language.

[brionl]

I guess I think of "thrushes talk thrush-language and humans can understand it" (especially given the relatively complex information communicated) being essentially the same as "thrushes can talk". But fair enough, only the ravens and eagles talk human-language.

Only people descended from the line of the rulers of Dale can understand the Thrush language. Notably, Bard.

[DeliaP]

Only people descended from the line of the rulers of Dale can understand the Thrush language. Notably, Bard.

If we're getting picky: strictly, the Hobbit said people of the race of Dale could understand thrushes. So, not just the line of rulers.

And also, importantly, it doesn't say only people of the race of Dale.

A great many other people are informed by unspecified birds (eg. the Elvenking) of the events going on.

Regardless: thrushes can speak and understand languages capable of conveying complex ideas:


"The moon is rising. Look for the hollow of the left breast as he flies and turns above you." And while Bard paused in wonder it told him tidings of up in the mountain and of all that it had heard.


Doesn't matter much what language that is in: the thrush can talk!

[137beth]

We've already seen a female (Laurin) polymorph into a non-binary-gender creature (here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0909.html), we see Trigak (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326558) refers to Spiky as an 'it'), so it would be totally reasonable for Bloodfeast's lizard form to have a different gender than Bloodfeast's normal form.

Anyways, until otherwise proven, the best assumption is probably that Bloodfeast is actually V's ex-mate. \end{sarcasm}

[Gift Jeraff]

We've already seen a female (Laurin) polymorph into a non-binary-gender creature (here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0909.html), we see Trigak (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326558) refers to Spiky as an 'it'), so it would be totally reasonable for Bloodfeast's lizard form to have a different gender than Bloodfeast's normal form.

Anyways, until otherwise proven, the best assumption is probably that Bloodfeast is actually V's ex-mate. \end{sarcasm}

Um... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0540.html) :confused: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0336.html)

[137beth]

Wait! Since V is half-camel, was V's camel parent a male, female, or some other gender?

[ti'esar]

Um... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0540.html) :confused: (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0336.html)

Look, I'm as tired of this forced meme attempt as you are, but linking to a comic about Belkar losing his candy bar isn't going to do anything about it.

[martianmister]

We've already seen a female (Laurin) polymorph into a non-binary-gender creature (here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0909.html), we see Trigak (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=326558) refers to Spiky as an 'it'), so it would be totally reasonable for Bloodfeast's lizard form to have a different gender than Bloodfeast's normal form.

But "It" is the correct way to adress an animal. :smallconfused: