[3.5] Lichloved question.

[HaikenEdge]

Ignoring the flavor of how you get Lichloved for a moment, I've got a question about something in the text of the feat.


Mindless undead see you as an undead creature. Becoming more and more like an actual undead creature, you gain a +1 circumstance bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting spells and abilities, poison, sleep, paralysis, stunning, and disease.

While the meaning of the second sentence is very clear, the meaning of the first is not for me; that is to say, what exactly is the benefit of having mindless undead see you as an undead creature?

If it's in one of the books somewhere, could somebody point me to the book and the page(s) in question?

[Croix]

It basically means unless commanded to mindless undead aren't gonna attack you. At least that's the common sense idea behind it, but RAW was never on speaking terms with common sense anyways.

[Telonius]

It basically means unless commanded to mindless undead aren't gonna attack you. At least that's the common sense idea behind it, but RAW was never on speaking terms with common sense anyways.

That's how I read it. Basically, Zombies are only after fresh brains, so they're not going to bother you.

[Gemini476]

Did you know that even WotC ignore the flavor text?

Lichloved [Vile]
By repeatedly consorting with the undead, you gain dread
powers.
Prerequisite: Evil Brand.
Benefit: Mindless undead see you as an undead creature.
Becoming more and more like an actual undead creature,
you gain a +1 circumstance bonus on saving throws against
mind-affecting spells and abilities, poison, sleep, paralysis,
stunning, and disease.

I'm going to assume that the RAI is for mindless undead to ignore you, but I'm not sure if there's any RAW there.

I guess maybe Wights won't target you for draining because they think you're Undead? Might be kind of useful when fighting Liches as well.

[Drachasor]

It basically means unless commanded to mindless undead aren't gonna attack you. At least that's the common sense idea behind it, but RAW was never on speaking terms with common sense anyways.

Ironically, most mindless undead have lines saying they ONLY do what they are ordered to do. It's left vague how they behave without a master.

Though if the mindless undead have to feed on the living, then you'll have a benefit.

[Chronos]

A necromancer might order his zombie minions to "attack any living creature you see". Which in fact I think is the default behavior of zombies that aren't given any orders.

A necromancer (at least, a smart one) certainly isn't going to order his zombies to "attack any creature you see, even undead", because then they would attack each other, and skeletons and zombies are only useful in large numbers.

[Drachasor]

A necromancer might order his zombie minions to "attack any living creature you see". Which in fact I think is the default behavior of zombies that aren't given any orders.

A necromancer (at least, a smart one) certainly isn't going to order his zombies to "attack any creature you see, even undead", because then they would attack each other, and skeletons and zombies are only useful in large numbers.

"Attack any intruder" or "attack anyone that comes in except me, yourselves, and Igor". But you definitely don't want the command to be "attack any living creature you see" because enemy undead and constructs would be ignored -- kind of a dumb move for someone with undead guards to assume undead won't be used to attack.

[forsaken1111]

Now I am wondering how one would phrase a simple command to a zombie which would have it attack only enemy undead or 'intruders'. Saying intruders is so vague as to be useless in most situations. That could be anything from a field mouse to a marauding troll.

[Fax Celestis]

Actually it makes you invisible to mindless undead with Lifesight, though I don't think that was their intention.

[KillianHawkeye]

I'm going to assume that the RAI is for mindless undead to ignore you, but I'm not sure if there's any RAW there.

I guess maybe Wights won't target you for draining because they think you're Undead? Might be kind of useful when fighting Liches as well.

Um..... wights and liches are both intelligent forms of undead. They won't be tricked by this feat.

[Yomega]

Did you know that even WotC ignore the flavor text?


I'm going to assume that the RAI is for mindless undead to ignore you, but I'm not sure if there's any RAW there.

I guess maybe Wights won't target you for draining because they think you're Undead? Might be kind of useful when fighting Liches as well.

Wights and Liches are intelligent undead so no use on them ... well besides tho bonus to saves.

Brings me back tho I had a player talk to a lawer friend to decide on the exact wording to leave his minions with:sigh:

[HaikenEdge]

So, by RAW, nothing on its own?

[forsaken1111]

So, by RAW, nothing on its own? It means exactly what it says. When a mindless undead encounters your character, it will think you are another undead being. Your DM will have to adjudicate consequences of that.

If the mindless undead are under orders to kill living creatures and not other undead, they won't attack you.

[Ravens_cry]

It means exactly what it says. When a mindless undead encounters your character, it will think you are another undead being. Your DM will have to adjudicate consequences of that.

If the mindless undead are under orders to kill living creatures and not other undead, they won't attack you.
Which makes sense, since an undead with a simple 'attack' command, would attack each other and any intruders.