Machine Gun Crossbow (3.5)

[D4rkh0rus]

Given a Great Crossbow, +3 (for weapon augment crystals) and +7 in the form of enhancements, with greater magic weapon...

Also assuming that Aptitude qualifies the Great Cbow for Hand Crossbow focus... (same with other feats like lightning mace and three thunders thingy...)

Whats the most Damage I can dish out, and what are the required Feats, Items and classes. (maximum of 5 feats though.)

For the sake of spells. Lets just say you can persist any 5 spells (assuming they all have reach for the range requirement), you can use a swift action cast spell...

and you can cast a spell in the round before.

Assume you have lvl 20 with medium BaB.


Extra points if all the attacks can hit an AC of 45-50 without needing to roll more than 10.

[Know(Nothing)]

If precision damage is in the mix, the Splitting enhancement is great, as is the Crossbow Sniper feat.

[Slipperychicken]

You can get infinite damage (limited only by your ammo supply) through the "bolt-spammer" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7644456&postcount=24) trick.

relevant text from link:

Originally posted by Olo Demonsbane

Begin as some class that gets bonus feats and full BAB...probably a fighter. You dual wield hand crossbows, and make sure to get the following feats: EWP (Hand Crossbow), Round House Kick, Lightning Maces, Improved Critical, and Double Hit; make sure to get the prereqs as well. Now multiclass into Disciple of Disapater.
You're probably asking yourself, "What the heck is this guy thinking? These feats in no way go together!" But now we get into magic items. Buy yourself two +1 Aptitude Splitting Hand Crossbows. And something that gives you unlimited nonmagical ammo (Quiver of someone or other).
Now, you have a critical range of a good amount...13-20 or better. You'll have a lot of attacks, thanks to 2 splitting weapons. And every time you get a critical threat, you get 8 extra attacks! You have a chance to critical threat on them too. Think about it.
Effectively, you gain NI attacks...it never goes truly infinite, because of the fact that the chain can be ruined by a stroke of very bad luck.
However, beware of the psionic power Death Urge. It causes you to attack yourself, and automatically crit. Well, you crit, so you get 8 extra attacks...which all crit as well. Then you get 64 extra attacks...and so on. And atomize yourself.

[Nirhael]

You can get infinite damage (limited only by your ammo supply) through the "bolt-spammer" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7644456&postcount=24) trick.

relevant text from link:


Roundabout Kick requires a critical from an unarmed attack, I don't think it works.

I don't have access to the Miniatures' Handbook right now but this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/lists/feats) states that "You can react with your off hand to make an additional attack along with an attack of opportunity." so it doesn't seem to do much of anything either.

Disciple of Dispater is 3.0 and it really shouldn't stack with Improved Critical/Keen anyway, but that's up to the DM.

Aptitude and Splitting still work well with Lightning Mace though, but not quite an infinite amount of shots. This isn't what OP wanted anyway.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

Roundabout Kick requires a critical from an unarmed attack, I don't think it works.

Due to the aptitude property, those hand crossbows get to trigger off of roundabout kick. It's a silly enhancement like that.

[Nirhael]

Due to the aptitude property, those hand crossbows get to trigger off of roundabout kick. It's a silly enhancement like that.

I was actually mixing it up with a Warblade's weapon aptitude ability, but still, do unarmed attacks even count as "weapons"? Seems like that's pushing it more than a little bit.

[Slipperychicken]

Due to the aptitude property, those hand crossbows get to trigger off of roundabout kick. It's a silly enhancement like that.

It's based off the Warbade's Aptitude class feature, which lets you switch your weapon-specific feats (like weapon focus) to work for different weapons. The idea is to swap things like turn Weapon Focus (longsword) to Weapon Focus (battleaxe), but it apparently also works for things like lightning maces and roundabout kick.


I was actually mixing it up with a Warblade's weapon aptitude ability, but still, do unarmed attacks even count as "weapons"? Seems like that's pushing it more than a little bit.

UAS is listed as a weapon. It gets its own row in the PHB weapon table and everything.

[D4rkh0rus]

You can get infinite damage (limited only by your ammo supply) through the "bolt-spammer" (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7644456&postcount=24) trick.

relevant text from link:


I cant use that... but I like it.

Currently im going for Hit and Run Targeteer 1 for Dex x2 to dmg, and crossbow sniper. + Dead Eye for x3.5 dex to dmg... on 12-14 bolts per round... I cant really add in craven as I cant take rogue lvls...

[Deophaun]

The idea is to swap things like turn Weapon Focus (longsword) to Weapon Focus (battleaxe), but it apparently also works for things like lightning maces and roundabout kick.
Highly debate-able. There is a list of examples that describe what they mean. Things like Weapon Focus (whatever) are there, while other core feats in the vein of Manyshot and Rapid Reload are not.

If you have a DM that let's you get away with the interpretation, by all means. But, it's not the only way RAW goes.

[Slipperychicken]

Highly debate-able. There is a list of examples that describe what they mean. Things like Weapon Focus (whatever) are there, while other core feats in the vein of Manyshot and Rapid Reload are not.

If you have a DM that let's you get away with the interpretation, by all means. But, it's not the only way RAW goes.

RAW is quite clear: The weapon enhancement works. Forbidding its use on roundabout kick is a houserule.


Effect: A wielder who has feats that affect the use of a particular type of weapon, such as Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, or the like, can apply the benefits of those feats to any weapon that has the aptitude quality. In addition, if any of the wielder's weapons use feats are specifically keyed to the aptitude weapon's type he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls.

The roundabout kick feat quite clearly affects the use of a particular type of weapon (unarmed strikes), as you can see below. This makes it compatible with an Aptitude weapon.


Benefit
If you score a critical hit on an unarmed attack, you can immediately make an additional unarmed attack against the same opponent, using the same attack bonus that you used for the critical hit roll. For example, Ember the 15th-level monk can make three unarmed attacks in a round, at base attack bonuses of+11, +6, and +1. If she scores a critical hit on her second attack, she can make an additional attack using her +6 base attack bonus. She then makes her third attack (at +l) as normal.

[Deophaun]

RAW is quite clear: The weapon enhancement works. Forbidding its use on roundabout kick is a houserule.
Notice what you did not bold:

such as Weapon Focus, Greater Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, or the like
Is roundabout kick like Weapon Focus? Do you get to normally get to choose which weapon it applies to when you take it as with the three feats listed? No, you do not, so it is not.

If it said "such as Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse, Rapid Reload, or the like," then RAW would be clear that it works. However, it lists no feat that is like roundabout kick, and so disallowing it to work is most definitely NOT a houserule: it is a valid RAW interpretation.

[D4rkh0rus]

As stated In the Opening Post I am assuming that Aptitude Does work for the feats.

I would appreciate if you two stopped discussing about the RaW'bility of Aptitude + Lightning mace and Roundabout Kick Since, as stated above... They count as being Aptitude'able for this thought exercise. All you two are doing is derailing this thread from a question to a discussion about game rules....

The thread is asking, given 5 persisted spells, 5 feats and a Great Crossbow (+3 +7 in enhancements) and any item...

Whats the most damage possible without abusing loops like the one above with all the crit feats?

Thank you.

[Diarmuid]

So you dont want to abuse loops, but you do want to completely ignore how aptitude actually works?

[D4rkh0rus]

So you dont want to abuse loops, but you do want to completely ignore how aptitude actually works?

Pretty much, yes.