Swashbuckler?

[Teapot Salty]

Hey guys, I'm a fairly new player and I took a look at the swashbuckler. It looks pretty cool, but I was wondering how good it is. I checked it out and I wanted to know what you guys thought of it. Is it good, terrible or somewhere between?
And please, no super optimized builds or anything, I'm a noob and either won't understand them, or my dm will reject them, or both. That aside, everything else is much appreciated. (although stuff along the lines of, "always use this feat and max out this stat" are much welcomed)

[Fax Celestis]

It's okay in the right mindset. I would say the only two musts are exotic weapon proficiency for eleven court blade and three levels of rogue with Daring Outlaw.

[Tar Palantir]

Swashbuckler can be good if (and pretty much only if) you pick up the feat Daring Outlaw from Complete Scoundrel. It lets you stack your levels of rogue and swashbuckler for the purpose of determining sneak attack dice, grace, and swashbuckler dodge. The typical build, if I recall correctly, is Rogue 4/Swash 16 (often grabbing Swash 1 early for the free Weapon Finesse), and it basically gives you a rogues sneak attack on a better combat chassis, losing out on some of the skill monkey bits. Simple, solid, and perfectly reasonable for a new player who wants something good but not gamebreaking.

[Teapot Salty]

Thanks a lot guys, It's really helpful, never would have even considered daring outlaw.

[Dread_Head]

Exotic Weapon Proficiency for a Spiked Chain is good on a Swashbuckler, with Combat Reflexes and Improved Trip (or not, with a spiked chain this can be avoided) you can make a decent tripping build. Especially good with the aforementioned Daring Outlaw combo. If you go for Daring Outlaw then you'll probably want to pick up Craven at some point as well for the lovely bonus damage. Then depending upon strength Power Attack may or may not be useful.

[Werephilosopher]

If you go with Daring Outlaw, just make sure you have another melee ally who can set up flanking with you so you get your bonus sneak attack damage. Feinting in combat is usually a bad idea unless you focus on it, like with Invisible Blade.

[Teapot Salty]

Swashbuckler can be good if (and pretty much only if) you pick up the feat Daring Outlaw from Complete Scoundrel. It lets you stack your levels of rogue and swashbuckler for the purpose of determining sneak attack dice, grace, and swashbuckler dodge. The typical build, if I recall correctly, is Rogue 4/Swash 16 (often grabbing Swash 1 early for the free Weapon Finesse), and it basically gives you a rogues sneak attack on a better combat chassis, losing out on some of the skill monkey bits. Simple, solid, and perfectly reasonable for a new player who wants something good but not gamebreaking.
what are the prerequisites for daring outlaw?

[Maginomicon]

Also there's this little gem... (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x) (search the page for swashbuckler) :smallwink:

[gorfnab]

These may be of use:
Swashbuckler Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=10768.0)
Rogue Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233)

2 levels of Swordsage, the second level taken after level 6 in a build, is great in a Swashbuckler build. Assassin Stance and the Shadowblade feat work nicely with Swashbuckler.

Here is a Swashbuckler build I came up with awhile ago, however it be a bit optimized for your DM.

Human or Strongheart Halfling
1. Cobra Strike (UA) Decisive Strike (PHBII) Monk - Carmendine Monk (CoV), Combat Expertise, B: Dodge
2. Cobra Strike (UA) Monk - B: Mobility
3. Swashbuckler - Deadly Defense (CS), B: Weapon Finesse
4. Swashbuckler
5. Swashbuckler
6. Thief Acrobat - Combat Reflexes
7. Thief Acrobat
8. Thief Acrobat
9. Thief Acrobat - Einhander (PHBII)
10. Thief Acrobat
11. Warblade
12. Warblade or Duelist - Ironheart Aura (ToB)
13. Duelist
14. Duelist
15. Duelist - Robilar's Gambit (PHBII)
16. Duelist
17. Duelist
18. Duelist - Stormgaurd Warrior (ToB)
19. Duelist
20. Duelist

Levels 10 through 12 can be rearranged depending on your needs. The current setup gives you Improved Evasion and Uncanny Dodge at these levels. However if you don't need Improved Evasion take one less level of Thief Acrobat and move the first level of Warblade to level 10. If you don't need Uncanny Dodge don't take the 2nd level of Warblade and instead go into Duelist a level early. If you don't need either abilities take Warblade at level 10 and enter Duelist at level 11.

If flaws are available pick up EWP: Broadblade Shortsword (CAdv, pre-errata version if possible) or Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHBII) and Snap Kick (ToB) (may need to rearrange later feats). If traits are available pick up Cautious (UA).

The Monk and Swashbuckler levels (levels 1 through 5) can be switched around to taste. I personally like Swash 1/ Monk 2/ Swash 2. Switch Deadly Defense feat to 1st level and Carmendine Monk feat to 3rd level.

Items:
Vest of Defense (MIC)
Bracers of Blocking (Dragon 322)
Broadblade Shortsword (CAdv) (if flaws are allowed and pre-errata version if possible) or Rapier with the Defensive Surge (MIC) enhancement.

Another option would be to play a Warblade and call yourself a "swashbuckler".
Warblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176968) Handbooks (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=8715.0)

[Tommy2255]

Also there's this little gem... (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20070227x) (search the page for swashbuckler) :smallwink:

Check out the previous installment of "Dead Levels" (link at the top of the article):

"The monk is the only other core class, aside from the barbarian, that has no dead levels. Players always have something to look forward to with the monk, which boasts the most colorful and unique special abilities of all the character classes."

Yup, you guys really nailed it. Keep up the good work. Maybe later you can tell us how awesomely designed Truenamer is.

Also, I'm personally fond of taking 3 levels of Swashbuckler in Gish builds because it lets you put that awesome Int to use, and you also get weapon finesse.

[WhamBamSam]

Check out the previous installment of "Dead Levels" (link at the top of the article):

"The monk is the only other core class, aside from the barbarian, that has no dead levels. Players always have something to look forward to with the monk, which boasts the most colorful and unique special abilities of all the character classes."

Yup, you guys really nailed it. Keep up the good work. Maybe later you can tell us how awesomely designed Truenamer is.

Also, I'm personally fond of taking 3 levels of Swashbuckler in Gish builds because it lets you put that awesome Int to use, and you also get weapon finesse.I don't know what you're talking about. Monk only has two levels, and they're both pretty good.:smalltongue:

And yeah, Swashbuckler 3 is a decent dip. If you want Swashbuckler to be the base of the build instead of the spice, then the aforementioned Daring Outlaw Rogue is a nice way of kicking it up a notch, as is Factotum 3, or 4, or 8. You can also rarely go wrong with a little Warblade or Swordsage in a melee build, or with a level of Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian.

[chainer1216]

These may be of use:
Swashbuckler Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=10768.0)
Rogue Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233)

2 levels of Swordsage, the second level taken after level 6 in a build, is great in a Swashbuckler build. Assassin Stance and the Shadowblade feat work nicely with Swashbuckler.


i thank you for this bit of advice, i've been torn on how to build an antagonist i'm going to need tomorrow, that will work out nicely.