[PF] Do Spellslingers shoot when they cast?

[Calinero]

So, I'm looking at the Spellslinger archetype for Wizards, and I noticed that it says they can cast spells through guns--not by shooting the guns. Does this mean that they do not also get to roll to hit with the bullet or add bullet damage when they cast? Casting and shooting are totally separate actions?

[Hruken]

Yes, casting and shooting are separate actions.

Edit: spelling

[Drachasor]

Just remember all the wizard archetypes in PF are awful.

[grarrrg]

Just remember all the wizard archetypes in PF are awful.

Scroll Scholar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/scroll-scholar-wizard) is pretty solid.
Shadowcaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/shadowcaster) has potential.
Spellbinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/elf/spellbinder-wizard-elf) gives limited spontaneous casting.

Can't argue with you too much on the rest though.

[Drachasor]

Scroll Scholar (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/scroll-scholar-wizard) is pretty solid.
Shadowcaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/shadowcaster) has potential.
Spellbinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/elf/spellbinder-wizard-elf) gives limited spontaneous casting.

Can't argue with you too much on the rest though.

You are right. Those three are mediocre and not awful. You still give up more than you gain with them overall.

[Spore]

You are right. Those three are mediocre and not awful. You still give up more than you gain with them overall.

How DARE they sacrifice ultimate power for *gasp* flavor. You can't just sacrifice power as a class as weak as an Wizard.

[Drachasor]

How DARE they sacrifice ultimate power for *gasp* flavor. You can't just sacrifice power as a class as weak as an Wizard.

I think giving up CANTRIPS is sacrificing flavor for no reason whatsoever. The Spellslinger does that.

Frankly, I'd have been quite happy if PF had brought Wizards/Clerics/Druids/Sorcerers down to Tier 3 in power. And I wouldn't mind an Archetype that was weaker but generally more flavorful -- trading power for a variety flavorful abilities and utility.

PF Archetypes really don't do that.

Spellslinger could be min-maxed to give ridiculous DCs on saves (increase save DCs by 5 on rays, lines, and cones with a +5 weapon). That's honestly a bit nuts, but still weaker since you give up 4 schools of magic. You also, for no reason, give up Cantrips which are a huge flavor ability in PF since you have unlimited cantrips. This one probably has the most unique flavor to it, but it's balance is really skewed and it sacrifices some flavorful abilities for no reason.

The Scroll Scholar largely just doesn't actually DO anything in practical terms. Kind of ironic. It's not awful....just pretty meh and boring.

The Shadowcaster isn't all that different from a normal Wizard with a bonded item. He prepares his extra spell(s) rather than getting one spontaneously though. The bonus on shadow spells isn't bad, but it doesn't really change them that much (imho), but it does make Shades pretty awesome. That's really late though. Imho, it doesn't have enough Shadow flavor though.

The Spellbinder really doesn't have much flavor either. The Spontaneous Casting part probably makes it the most powerful of the lot. Not sure how it fairs compared to careful prep and Arcane Bond (which is anything you know spontaneously). Still it's quite solid even if you must be an Elf. But I can't say this is flavorful.

Really that's a big problem with the Wizard Archetypes. Not a lot of flavor -- that is, no flavor ANY wizard couldn't have. The abilities are largely lacking in unique flavor and a lot of them require sacrificing other flavor for no reason and a lot of power for not even being GOOD at your new ability. Some of them have balance that's kind of whacky too.

I mean, I'm playing a Diviner Wizard in a RotR and focusing on knowledge...and there's just no decent options that are actually flavorful to take. Scroll Scholar is ok but meh in terms of abilities and Loremaster isn't much different. A lot of these things require sacrificing feats...and there are often feats that add more flavor than these options. For instance, Loremaster requires sacrificing bonus feats, but I could use them instead to Speak with Animals (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/arcane-discoveries/feral-speech). That single-handedly adds more flavor than most other options.

[Calinero]

Yeah, giving up the four schools is pretty rough. Do they still get a favored school? Or just give up four schools?

[grarrrg]

Yeah, giving up the four schools is pretty rough. Do they still get a favored school? Or just give up four schools?

No favored.
The 'favored' slots come from the Arcane School ability, which is traded away.


And I wouldn't mind an Archetype that was weaker but generally more flavorful -- trading power for a variety flavorful abilities and utility.

Oh, well if it's flavor you want, try Scrollmaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/scrollmaster). Now you can put on your paper hat, grab your paper sword and paper shield, and go and be a TRUE murder-hobo!

[Chained Birds]

Oh, well if it's flavor you want, try Scrollmaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/scrollmaster). Now you can put on your paper hat, grab your paper sword and paper shield, and go and be a TRUE murder-hobo!

Don't be dissing the paper swords man!

http://images6.fanpop.com/image/answers/3043000/3043692_1350322906841.63res_400_300.jpg

[Drachasor]

Oh, well if it's flavor you want, try Scrollmaster (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/wizard/archetypes/paizo---wizard-archetypes/scrollmaster). Now you can put on your paper hat, grab your paper sword and paper shield, and go and be a TRUE murder-hobo!

Speaking seriously for a moment. I think the idea behind that Archetype is awesome. My current character would have taken it if the implementation could actually be used for much of anything. But it's awful for just about every character concept. It gets better with Wizard levels, but that gives you 1/2 BAB. You can't repair the scrolls, so it becomes very expensive. You're limited to +4 weapons and shields using scrolls.

It could have been a really cool gish archetype....but it just can't work. Makes me sad. Even if it cost more but was actually useful, I'd have taken it, btw. : (