Symbol for a god of Slaughter.

[Aotrs Commander]

I am trying to figure out what the holy symbol of a god of slaughter would be. I am not, it must be said, very good with artistic/symbolism and I do want to try to avoid the obvious cliches (skulls, daggers etc etc).

The god in question is called Rututhoroesh, who's portfolio is death/slaughter (notedly distinct from the general death goddess of the world) and has expanded in the last 200-odd years to encompass the relatively-newcomer Orcs. (Specifically, orcs are essentially a genetically engineered species made by a nondeity divine being. Most of them worship him, but during a series of wars about 200 years prior, he basically scattered orcs (et al) throughout the lands in pockets, forming tribe - basically to keep the northern nations busy. Many of these tribes still worship him, but equally, enough have turned to the worship of Rututhoroesh that he is now considered their racial god.)

Prior to that, he was a fairly minor deity who was worshipped by cults or barbaric tribes of other nations or species.

(Deities work a bit like the do on Discworld - faith "creates" them, but once they reach a certain level, they become self-sustaining - but only the very highly worshipped can actually manifest into the corporeal world or an easily accessed divine realm.)

He's NE and his (current) domains available to clerics are Cavern, Darkness, Death, Evil, Hatred, Tyranny, Wrath, Wounding.

So, what slightly less cliche ideas might he use for his symbol?



(So far, the only other diety I've actually created a symbol for is the death goddess Numoria, Mistress of the moon, whose symbol is the half moon (or full or new, depending on which aspect is particularly in use), who is associated with owls, bats and spiders. She's also NG and actually kind of dislikes death as an inherent concept, just for variety. I mention this mainly so we have at least a starter for ten on what the symbol can;t be!)

[Shyftir]

Well Sickle's and Scythe's are fairly standard. Perhaps simply a figure in a black robe? Or instead of the more classic/cliche "death's head" you could go with a shattered skull? Or a blood-drenched hand?

[Nightgaun7]

A heart dripping blood?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

You could go with a Red Raven, or Crow. Sort of how you'll always find a heap of them after a battle.

Or a red knife piercing an upraised hand. Of the Kill-The-Helpless-Women-and-Children variety of slaughter.

[GreaserFish]

Perhaps a blood soaked fist crushing a bleeding heart between its fingers would work for you?

[Balyano]

When I read the title for some reason I thought a literal god of slaughter, as in of butchery. I thought a meat cleaver or a rack with hog quarters hanging to season. But now that I see the obvious that he's a god of battlefield slaughter I think to myself...why not both? Add a little cannibalism into the mix. Of the ''show my contempt for you by treating you like an animal'' sort. Have the symbol be a human body dismembered with the parts hanging on a butchers rack.

[Aotrs Commander]

I think the trouble with all those suggestions is they're well... a bit too obvious. Not the sort of thing a cult is going to be able to use (and for most of his tenure, Rututhoroesh was a more hidden god of slaughter/murder.)

Though there is a possibility in Balyeno's suggestion, as a symbol related to a butcher might be feasible - at least enough that it provides another avenue to conduct research into, i.e. historical symbology of butchers, if no other ideas present themselves.

[BornValyrian]

I think the trouble with all those suggestions is they're well... a bit too obvious. Not the sort of thing a cult is going to be able to use (and for most of his tenure, Rututhoroesh was a more hidden god of slaughter/murder.)


Well it's not very often you have a subtle god of slaughter. Nothing about how you've described this god couldn't equally be said about gruumsh or Erythnul. Erythnul, in fact, is worshipped in secret in all but the most savage places. If you're looking for something unique for your god, what is unique about him?

Btw, I like the death goddess stuff

[Lord Vukodlak]

In my own setting Garthos god of slaughter was symbolized by the severed hand of Kalar.(The god of justice). Garthos severed the paladin deities hand in battle thousands of years ago taking it as a trophy and a symbol of his might.

But you want subtle... ok how about a red moon. Easily done as a simple red disk. Until you know its actually a moon people won't get the reference.

—"A red moon rises blood has been spilled tonight."

Its also a middle finger to the death goddess whose NG and would naturally oppose him.

Side note: Tyranny seems an inappropriate domain for a god of slaughter at least to me. Your deity seems to tilt very much towards the disorder side of things. Instead I suggest the Suffering Domain.

[zephyrkinetic]

The Norse (from whence come Vikings) had an awesome ritual torture/sacrifice called the "Blood Eagle."

Summary: Cut slits in back, break ribs away from spine, pull rib cage out through holes, pull lungs out of body, sprinkle salt in wounds.

A pictoral representation of that would be pretty awesome.

[druid91]

A crowd of humanoid black-spaces on a red field, slowly merging into a solid mass of black towards the top.


Not obviously evil.
Slaughter implies lots of dead people. Erego the crowd on a field of blood.

[OzymandiasX]

I think the trouble with all those suggestions is they're well... a bit too obvious. Not the sort of thing a cult is going to be able to use (and for most of his tenure, Rututhoroesh was a more hidden god of slaughter/murder.)
Unless the god himself is unknown, people (in general) will know his symbol... as he can't go about changing his primary symbol every time a group of his followers is outed.

What may work better is to have his symbol be well known, but his cultists use variations on the theme to identify themselves to each other. For example, in my campaign setting the symbol of the god of murder is a knife with a droplet of blood on the tip. His cultists in one area used a red teardrop as their symbol. In another, they all carried a knife of a particular style.



From the ideas already suggested, for your deity I like the image of a fist soaked in blood. It conveys both carnage and the idea of getting (literally) one's hands dirty doing it.

[Kislath]

I was going to suggest a ritualistic style curved blade of the sort that might be used to cut the throats of animals "kosher style," but you want subtlety.

I guess you could have a secret order of worshippers who pretended to be something else, something like the slaughterhouse Rabbis of our own world.

[Grimsage Matt]

Okay, he has the Caverns, Wounding and Wrath domains, and may of his followers are barbarians and orcs?

A spear, its haft made from bones of the slain, capped with a dark and barbed head of metal as dark as a moonless night, the only thing to mar it runes of pulsing angry red, the color of freshly spilled blood.

[Avaris]

In my own setting Garthos god of slaughter was symbolized by the severed hand of Kalar.(The god of justice). Garthos severed the paladin deities hand in battle thousands of years ago taking it as a trophy and a symbol of his might.

But you want subtle... ok how about a red moon. Easily done as a simple red disk. Until you know its actually a moon people won't get the reference.

—"A red moon rises blood has been spilled tonight."

Its also a middle finger to the death goddess whose NG and would naturally oppose him.

Side note: Tyranny seems an inappropriate domain for a god of slaughter at least to me. Your deity seems to tilt very much towards the disorder side of things. Instead I suggest the Suffering Domain.
I had a similar thought. A red disc could work nicely for an underground cult, being an easy symbol to draw and then hide.

Alternatively, a starburst design: links to the goddess of death through being visible at night, and could have the mythology of the stars being drops of blood shed by the moon when struck by the God of slaughter.

[Thanatos 51-50]

I'm partial to a big yellow smiley face, but I can see why it might throw most people.

When I think "God of Slaughter" I think "Maniacal, Childish Glee in the bloodletting", which is what brings the big ol' smiley face to mind.

[Everyl]

What about a white-feathered crow? A carrion bird, as white as the bleached bones of its latest meal, but when rendered as a symbol, easily mistaken for a dove or other harmless bird. Or perhaps make it even more abstract - a white feather could represent the bird in an even more deniable fashion, for those cultists who still feel the need to be presentable in public.

[Aotrs Commander]

I think I clearly need to have a clearer idea of exactly what Rututhoroesh is before I finalise the symbol, as you've raised some points and asked some equstions I can't satisfactorily answer at the moment.

(I do like the idea of a red moon or stars or something spear-related though; that's my good starter for ten.)

Partly this because this is more or less the first time I've used an evil god and antagonist. The campaign world's Big Bad is the Dark Lord, a LE divine being (but not techically a god) who basically rules the bad guy nations (yes, all of them) Down South, while the Northern Nations's primary dieties are good-aligned. (Numori is the only one I've significantly detailed, but she's basically part of a Big Trio of major goddesses (the other ones being the Bright Lady and the goddess of fey/magic). The Dark Lord doesn't have truck with any deities (he wants to get them out of his world), so most of the adventures to this point have eithe been Northern Nations good guys verses Dark Lord or Dark Lord black ops verses Northern Nations.

In brutal truth, I have mostly so far only got the major deities named, with alignment, portfolio and (nominal) domains so far, aside from the Dark Lord and (partial) for Numori. I was hoping to write a fairly easy quest that wouldn't require too much world-building - to keep writing time down, as I have until abotu half-way through April - but sadly it seems I can never manage to do something as straightfoward as that! So I will have to do a bit more groundwork before I continue!

At the very least, I think I really need to consider what the symbol of the Dark Lord is first (the other two big goddesses aren't liable to have much overlap with Rututhoroesh), something that I should have probably done before, but hasn't been of great importance until now.



So then. Change of tack, ladies and gentlemen!

Let me layout the write-up for the Dark Lord, and see if we can brainstorm a good symbol for him first.

(I'll add Numori's write-up as well, though, as BornValyrian expressed interest.)

First a summary of the campaign world history, because as will become apparent it is inherently linked to the campaign world and thuis necessary to understand where the Dark Lord is coming from.

The history of Dreemaenhyll begins ten thousand years ago. This period is recalled as the Godswar. Up until this time, a pantheon of gods made their home here with their usual set of divine servants, living of the Prime Material plane. At this time, the people of the world were all primitives; civilisation, and it’s attendant worship of deities did not exist yet.

The Godswar was actually part of the Xakkath Demon War, though it paid only a minor role. When the conflict was over, most of the gods who had settled here decided they were needed elsewhere, and on other planes, and they decided to leave their world behind and never come back. So they gathered all they had built, all their creatures and then up and left.

All save one servant, a foot soldier in the Demon War, who hid when they left. This being would later become the Dark Lord. When the gods had left, and they did not notice him missing; in the confusion of the aftermath of Xakkath’s war, he was assumed to be missing or dead; indeed, as the gods that lived here departed and went their separate ways never to return, perhaps each assumed him to be with the others.

The nascent Dark Lord came out of hiding and found that not only had the gods left (leaving him as sole ruler of the world), but they had taken everything with them; every trace of their being had gone. This left the Dark Lord with literally the clothes on his back, and the sword in his hand. It is surmised the Dark Lord was not best pleased with this. He had been a soldier, but not a smith or craftsman, and though he possessed a razor keen intellect that has been sharpened by time, he did not know the specifics of crafting. He had some little magical ability by virtue of his divine standing, but did not himself understand how to manipulate magic. Thus, he was forced back to very basics, and being of divine origin, survival techniques were not known to him; he does not eat, nor suffer from cold nor heat, so he had never needed to learn those skills, much less the art of stone craft or wood work.

Thus, the Dark Lord’s early attempts at shelter were poor, and he had to learn from the beginning. Shortly thereafter, he began to travel his world, in search of anything the gods may have missed.

During the next six thousand years, the world was a quiet place. The peoples of the world were tribal, and though inter-tribal conflicts were common, this could not be construed as warfare. The basic stocks of the known races began to migrate to near their current locales; the nascent Elves moved into the forests, and began to be affected by the background magic and became fey, the Dwarves moved down from the north was the climate warmed and took up residence in the mountains, the Halflings migrated north from the tropical forests, and the humans scattered everywhere. The primitive Intulo remained ensconced in their desert homes.

About two thousand years after the Godswar (5000AP), the early peoples began to discover pottery; about five hundred or so years later (4500 AP) they were making wine and beer, and beginning to learn how to farm. The bow began to be used as a weapon by the Elves somewhere around 3700 years after the Godswar (3500 AP). Early working in bronze began around 4200 years after the Godswar (3000 AP), though it was over 7000 years after the Godswar (50 AP) that bronze swords became commonplace; until then, most weapons were spears or axes with bronze heads, replacing the copper which had been used up until then. Bronze continued to be used as the metal of choice until around 7700 years after the Godswar (450 AI) as iron became commonplace. Iron was discovered by the Dwarves as they began delving their caverns around 4700 years after the Godswar (circa 2500 AP), but again, was not really in widespread use this time. It had been steadily becoming more widely used over the last couple of centuries; early iron swords date back to 250 AI, though royalty and important persons had iron weapons much earlier.

5200 years after the Godswar (2000 AP), the wheel was invented, to start with as a potter’s tool. Nearly a thousand years would pass before chariots and carts were commonplace. Horses and cattle had been domesticated for a very long time, though most were too small for riding or doing anything other than basic work until this time. Silk was discovered by the Elves around 6000 years after the Godswar (1200 AP).

The Dark Lord spent the time wandering the globe. He had no way of writing or recording anything with permanence, and so everything he learned he had to commit to memory. Over the six thousand years he very slowly began to develop his magical skills by sheer dint of effort and trial-and-error. At this time, even the Elves had not developed anyone capable of using magic, and indeed, they were still absorbing the background magic from their forest homes.

The Dark Lord had observed the races has he travelled, and despite several unsuccessful attempts, he decided that he could not educate them enough to be useful, so he by and large left them alone. Part of his reasoning in working on magic was so that he could gain the powers of the Gods and better rule these primitive folk.

However, his understanding of the nature of magic and the world was far from the completeness it is now. What he learned much later was this. Dreemaenhyll has a large amount of natural magical energy, but for reasons as yet unknown (though some think it may have something to do with the placement on the Prime Plane, or something in the planet’s core), this magic forms into areas of high or low magical power, and some areas of null magic, where there is no magic at all. The Dark Lord’s meagre powers as this point were fuelled to a large extent by his own divine blood, and were sufficiently small that he did not register areas of low magic, and even null magic areas just seemed to him to be just himself having difficulty.

The areas of magic change slowly, like the movement of the continents, so slowly that it is measured in generations rather than years. When the gods had occupied the world, the magic was tied to them, and they used and controlled it’s flow. In their absence, it flowed back into the world. Over millennia, those living in high-magic areas began to develop the traits necessary to use magic (sentient or otherwise), and later, those in low magic areas developed them to. But even so, as yet, few could use the talents, as no-one knew they existed, and there were none whose wild talent was capable of anything specially powerful enough to notice, save perhaps in a shaman’s witch-doctoring. Among the first creatures to be affected were those in very high magic areas, and from them came all the various magical natural creatures, including dragonkind. In higher than average areas, the mutations were slower and more subtle; the Elves’ fey nature being perhaps the best example.

When the Gods left, they did not take everything with them; in the magic of the world, there was a great deal of loose divine power. With nothing to control it, it began to flow, like water, into the easiest path open to it. Psionic and ethereal energy from deaths of creatures, and from life itself, be it sentient or animal emotion, began to collate. As there were none to monitor death, this energy was not released anywhere, and thus flowed back to the Prime or remained in the Ethereal. The energy from life that flowed back into the Prime formed on emotion began to from spirits, drifting through the psychic plane. They had no form as yet, but there were many. The smallest and weakest would eventually become the Fey we know today; the largest would become the current Gods.

The development of both is linked inextricably with the development of society. As the races began to believe in spirits and gods, this belief lent strength – and then form – to the spirit energy. Slowly, spirit-gods, or guardian spirits began to form, protectors of a tribe, and as tribes joined and civilisation began they melded and eventually became the Gods. Tales of things in the woods and other myths helped form the Fey; though indeed, in most cases, merely gave form to the spirits.

At the end of this 6000-year long grace period (around 1250 AP), as the first Bronze-Age nations were forming, the Dark Lord returned north from his wandering and noticed them. Suddenly he realised the potential of the would-be Gods, and the threat they represented to his power, and how they had come to form. He acted swiftly. He did not know how powerful the spirits of the nations were and perhaps wisely elected not to tackle them directly. So, using the all the magical power he had developed, he made himself head of some of the lesser tribes (ousting the minor spirit-gods, sometimes even by direct combat; after all, despite everything, he still had his own magical gear and had fought in the Godswar). Then he began to attack the larger nations, seeking to conquer them quickly and stop the gods from forming.
But it was too little, and too late. His tactics were crude, and his chosen warriors tribesmen against organised nations. Though it was the first real large scale war, which lasted on and off for some four hundred years, the Dark Lord achieved little, and soon realised that the Gods had reached the point of self-sustenance. Even if he eliminated all their worshippers now, they had enough power to go to others and begin again. They would not, as he had initially hoped, fade back into the ether.

For their part, the Gods did not dare raise their hands to the Dark Lord, even when they discovered him. They were as afraid of him as he of them, realising that he, for all his apprehension on fighting them, would more than likely be able to defeat them. They had not yet even close to the powers they have now, boosted by centuries of worship, followers and divine servants, and indeed knowledge, for they, like the Dark Lord, had to learn from scratch.

Eventually, the Dark Lord abandoned his crusade, having fought many tribes surrounding the new nations to extinction. So he retired. He found that these nations, could at least, be a source of information, and he wandered long, hidden from the gods, seeking knowledge. And armed with this, especially the knowledge of papyrus and written language (though at this stage as hieroglyphs and cuneiform), he had the capability to set up his own nations.

Until this point, the bulk of the civilisations (as opposed to the tribes) were in the northern area. He went south, until he reached the northern end of the great desert the lizardfolk called home. Until this point, he had used Men against Men, and tiring of humans, he decided to try the lizardfolk. At this stage, the lizardfolk were mostly still wandering tribes, wielding obsidian-spiked clubs. But one large tribe had developed farther. Their home was a large oasis of fresh water, cradled by a mountain range. This was linked by a long river to the sea, and the flooding provided better food. This had allowed them to move away from hunter-gatherer. They had a very crude form of pictogram, made from carving slabs of stone or bronze; they had metal work (more than most of the lizardfolk tribes), construction skills in stone, and even an understanding of astronomy and mathematics. The tribe was known as the Intulo.

It was here the Dark Lord came. Though he was apparently human, the Intulo soon came to realise he brought great knowledge to them, and that it was logical he should aid them. For the next few hundred years, the Dark Lord remained with the Intulo, learning with them. He did not, perhaps surprisingly, rule them. He had decided, after his last attempts to lead, that he had better learn patience, and learn from rulers before he became one. He also realised that he should not ensconce himself too much into their culture as yet; he planned to create many nations, and tying himself into one would make it much more difficult. He did not therefore, make an issue of his divine status, and the Intulo, knowing no better, took his agelessness as merely a peculiarity of his breed.

Around 6900 years after the Godswar (350 AP), the Intulo developed algebra, and the other nations a hundred or so years thereafter. True alphabets and writing came about 200-500 years later; earlier for the Intulo. About 50 AP, bronze swords and armour became more common place items, not just for the very wealthy (though still well beyond what the peasant could afford).

Despite their advantage in logic and maths, the Intulo’s native lack of innovation meant they were behind on technology, something the Dark Lord worked to correct as he could take the time from his own magical studies. Of all the races, only the Elves took as long to develop certain aspects; they took much longer to accept the use of metals rather than natural artefacts made of pottery or wood.

In the north, horses large enough to ride began to emerge, and chariots had their heyday in around 1000AP. It would be half a century before large riding horses became common, and only 8500 years after the Godswar (1250 AI) would the invention of the first, primitive stirrups allowed combat while mounted. It would further be a good thousand years later still before stirrup and saddle had advanced enough to perfect mounted combat. The trade and use of spices began around this time, 6700 years after the Godswar (550 AP). At around 7500 years after the Godswar (250 AI), iron began to become heavily used. Now swords were made of iron, not bronze, and the first iron armour was started to be made.

Magic also began to be developed. After centuries of exposure, plus the knowledge of the gods and of the magical Fey, the Elves first and then other began to learn to use magic, both by divine power and by wizardry. This was a much shorter process, as magic was waxing during this time, up until the Dark Wars. There were far more than one person working on the problem, and they had help from the Gods, who armed with knowledge that the Dark Lord had gleaned and they had acquired, made this a much shorter (comparatively) task than the Dark Lord’s thousands of years, taking merely hundreds.

By 8200 years after the Godswar (around 1000 AI), civilisation as we know it know has really begun; medical colleges were established, currency came into widespread use, and proper maps and navigation were invented, and civil laws (public and private laws, rather than unilateral state laws) became established in some countries. The Validus Calendar was established, using the birth of Nepitares, the founder of the city of Nepitar (the capital of the Validus Empire) as the frame of reference, and it eventually became the standard reckoning of years throughout the world. The time after this date is AI (Anno Imperium ), and those before as (Antequam Patria ). The date at which the calendar was introduced was reckoned at 1000 AI (as reasonable an approximation to the actual birth date of Nepitares as was possible).
8700 years after the Godswar (about 1450 AI), the Dark Lord began his next invasion. The Intulo had expanded their empire over the last two thousand years, becoming the nation known as Sokointulo ever after, and the Dark Lord had also converted several of the Nations of Men to his cause – KwaUbumnyama, Satranath and Sokokaibra. The Dark Lord finally revealed himself, and took overlordship of the nations he’d helped build, with his now considerable magical powers, and headed north. The conflict was bitter, and much more in doubt than the Dark Lord’s first attempt, though much less protracted. It lasted for about 50 years, on and off, most of the battles occurring in the three major campaigns made in this time. The Dark Lord gained a good deal of ground, but was unable to break the nations. This was also the first conflict which involved non-humans; the Elves, Dwarves and even Halflings as well as the attacking Intulo were drawn in. Eventually, the Dark Lord had no more forces to throw. The allied forces drove him back, and his forces were scattered and defeated. But the allies had not the strength left themselves to mount a major siege of the Dark Lord’s human lands, and were forced to let him go. This lead to a steady decline in the major powers over the next few hundred years, which mark a quiet period in history. There were less wars, though much raiding by all parties, especially the Dark Lord’s forces.

The Dark Lord moved his capital from Ranakintulo to a new citadel in Sokokaibra; Xooruun Kovytorr, often called the Dark Lord’s Tower. His needs now exceeded what Ranakintulo could provide without massive reconstruction, so it was more expedient to move to a new location, closer to the forefront that could be designed to his requirements. While Xooruun Kovytorr was being built, he spend his time in Ranakkaibra and Ranakintulo overseeing the work. Once the fortress was ready, he began again his magical studies. For the next seven hundred years or so, he experimented with magic and governed his nations. He began to recruit or corrupt Elves and Dwarves to his cause, and their descendants, the Dark Elves and Dark Dwarves still haunt Dreemaenhyll today. The former, greater in number, were settled in what would be later Yalaer-Saka.

Then, in 2190 AI, the Dark Lord made a large mistake. He planned to use a powerful magical spell to raise Sokokaibra above the rest of the lands on a pillar a thousand feet high, thus rendering his fortress immune to attack. However, he grossly miscalculated both his own strength and that of the magic that he used, and made a terrible mistake in the preparation. It was the largest mistake the Dark Lord has ever made, before or since, and he has had long years to rue his arrogance. Instead of the raising his land above the rest, he succeeded in creating a huge magical explosion. The blast very nearly killed him, and it was only through sheer chance that he had pulled so much magical power from around Xooruun Kovytorr that the blast originated from outside it, meaning that it was only half destroyed (though everyone within save the Dark Lord himself was instantly killed). The rest of the nation was not so lucky. From the west coast to the fringing foothills of the Bleak Mountains to the east, the entire land was vaporised, killing everyone and everything. The blast crater was two-hundred feet deep, at the northern end, though because the blast went off at a slight angle, the southern end only made a shallow ridge a third that height. This event is referred to as the Dark Cataclysm, or Dark Lord’s Error (though not the latter in the lands of the Dark Lord).

Since then, the area left by the crater has been the Dark Lands, and has traditionally been the border between the forces of Good and Evil. The Intulo were fortunate; they were not affected by the blast, but the Dark Lord’s nations of Men were devastated.

But not all was totally lost for the Dark Lord. For he discovered shortly thereafter through the after effects of the magical backlash, the secret of breeding new creatures, new races. He has been able to do this before, but like the mortals, it took generations. Now he could splice abilities together and make new beasts. Fortunately, the mages of the north also learned how, though they were not nearly so swift as the Dark Lord. Until the Dark Wars began in earnest, the Dark Lord began to frantically repopulate his new, desert scrub land with new and terrible creatures. Those that failed he cast out, sending them to the winds; some escaped north, others south, still others into the Underrealms.

But his most loathsome and profligate creations – ones who, it was be said, he takes most pride in having created – are the Orc-Kin. Four races he made of the them; Orcs, Hobgoblins, Goblins and Kobolds. In each there was a mix of Mannish, Elven, Dwarf and even Halfling blood, combined with other things less pleasant. They were magically created, and breed, not mate like fairer folk. They became his foot soldiers, his rank-and-file. The Men he had left he hoarded too; the best of the them were too precious to lose to death by old age. Thus he began the arts of Black Necromancy, the creation of free-willed and powerful Undead, not merely the raising of dead bodies, nor ‘naturally’ occurring Undead, but created, spirit bound Undead, powerful and cruel.
Then, about three hundred years ago, the Dark Wars began (2466AI). They lasted a generation of Men. All the free nations and peoples of the north were drawn in, and the fighting was endless. The waxing of magical power had reached its’ apogee, and both sides employed it to maximum effect. Little harm could befall the already scarred Dark Lands, but the northern nations would take centuries to recover. Both sides created creatures to fight the war; the Dark Lord often countering the Good races with perversions of his own. They created Gryphons; he made Gagana in answer.

And so it continued for nearly eighty years of blood, pain and magic.
In the end it was only when the Nymphs and Fey creatures came in on the side of Good that the Dark Lord was driven back into the Dark Lands, and finally, the Great Battle took place outside the very walls of the Dark Lord’s tower, against the elite of the Dark Lord’s Orc-Kin, Undead and aerial forces. Of particular note was the lone young foot soldier who ended up fighting the Dark Lord in hand-to-hand combat. The young soldier had had little combat experience, but somehow, through sheer dint of determination, held the Dark Lord off for several minutes, preventing him for gathering his magical power. The Fey used this hard-bought time to cast a powerful incantation, which broke the back of the Dark Lord’s forces, and cast him down; not defeated forever, but sorely wounded.

And thus the terrible Dark Wars ended. Once again, the forces of good had not the strength to tear up all of the Dark Lands, though they did much damage. Many even believed the Dark Lord destroyed, and though his tower appeared to be in ruins, much of his important knowledge and artefacts were buried deep and safe.

It would be centuries before the world recovered; the Dark Lord took ages to heal himself, and start to rebuild his forces. The northern alliance returned to destitute and devastated lands. Worse, the creatures of both sides that were created for war now were loose in the wilds; roaming bands of Orc-Kin, deserting the Dark Lord became commonplace, and to this day they still cause grief to the north.

The next five decades were marked by plagues and suffering; in addition to all the other problems, after the war it was discovered that the magic, which had reached an apogee with the Great Battle, was now fading much more rapidly than it rose, and Low magic areas expanded. There were far fewer new magic users, and those that there were, were pushed to the limit. The only consolation was that the forces of Evil were having just as much trouble themselves. What magical creatures there were fortunately retreated to the High magic areas, where by-and large, they remain to date.

Technological development had slowed, due to this large dark age, but not completely stopped. About two hundred years ago (circa 2560 AI), the Galausians started to make serious use of plate armour for their knights as opposed to mail; the compass was invented just over a hundred years ago; and as little as 30 years ago, the Dwarves developed a way to make consistent and cheap steel.

The current year is 2764.


Rank ? (Lawful Evil)
Portfolio: N/A
Domains: Deathbound, Evil, Knowledge, Law, Magic, Planning, Spell, Undeath, War, Wounding
Holy Symbol: ?
Favoured Weapon: Short Sword Divine Bastion ability (Spell resistance 13), Divine Retribution Energy Force (Intelligence)), Footsteps of the Divine movement (Fly 40’ (Perfect)), Interfaith Blessing (+1 to attack and damage rolls)

The Dark Lord is not technically a deity, though he is a divine being. His history is more intimately linked to that of Dreemaenhyll than any other deity. The Dark Lord is a corporeal being, and his home plane is the Prime; specifically the Dark Tower.

The Dark Lord desires dominion over all of Dreemaenhyll (and perhaps beyond). He would dearly like to kill all of the other deities or make them submit to his will. And the trait the serves him in best stead to achieve this goal is his extreme intelligence. After all, it he that defined much of the way magic is used of Dreemaenhyll, after centuries of his own work. He is cold and ruthless, but always efficient. Despite his great magical prowess, he still thinks of himself as a warrior first, and has never forgotten the value of a strong sword arm. He knows the value of his servitors, and that a content, willing servant is far better than one who must be controlled by force. Much of this he has learned by trial and error over the millennia. The Dark Lord is careful with his resources; millennia of having to make do with nothing has taught him that. He is patient – though his patience does have limits – and often works to schemes long years in the making. They have the meticulous planning of a military campaign; indeed, most of the Dark Lord’s aims remain rooted in the Prime Material plane. He has little interest in what happens outside it, including what happens to the dead.

The Dark Lord has no allies or even dealings with the rest of the Pantheon. He looks on the deities as enemies. Nor does he have many dealings with the Demon Lords. He fought in the Xakkath Demon Wars against them and it seems even after ten thousand years, he does not trust them, nor has he lost his enmity for them. He has little contact with any other extraplanar beings; his base on the Prime makes this more difficult, and the Dark Lord does not like to be beholden to any being.

One might wonder then, the Dark Lord manages to survive against the gods. The answer is very simple. He is not a god, but his power is as great in terms of combative ability. The gods are all afraid of him of some level. They know that were they to band together and fight him, they would win. But not before several – if not many – of their number died. And above all, the Gods fear death above all else. Those who would stand together to fight him are not great enough to be assured that they would win, and are more concerned about what would be in their absence were the Dark Lord still alive.

For his part, the Dark Lord does not fight them for the same reason; he is aware that as a group, he would be defeated. Thus he works to undermine their power, chip away at the worshippers, striking blows where and when he can against his most powerful foes and any others who provide him with opportunity to strike. The second reason is, the Dark Lord learns.

Deities, as part of their very divine existence, are tied to aspects, to their portfolios – even if the latter sometimes changes. They tend to see the universe in those terms, and they often do not see a larger picture because they are concentrating on their world or their pursuit of some goal. This focus makes them powerful, but it also means that they do not adapt or learn in the way other entities do. This effect is reinforced by the need for worship. Worship grants power, but also focuses the deity on what is being worshipped, sometimes to the exclusion of all else. Or to put it another way, most deities do not have a hobby or interest outside their own calling because it is their calling.

The deities of Dreemaenhyll – even the Bright Lady – suffer from this to an extent. The Dark Lord, possessing no true portfolio – and not being a true deity, needing no worshippers – does not. He thinks more like a mortal does, and his interests spread widely – some are even benign, like his interest in knowledge and technology for its own sake. Thus, he keeps his mind open and fresh.

Three times he has invaded Dreemaenhyll. Three times he has been beaten. But each time, greater force was needed to stop him, and each time the cost of victory rose. Each time, the Dark Lord learned. And next time, not even all the Pantheon combined may be able to stop him.

Dogma
The Dark Lord is less worshipped and more served by his underlings. Because he is a corporeal being on the Prime material plane, he commands an immediacy that the Gods cannot match. There is always some degree of interpretation in following a God’s commandment through prophets or dreams. The Dark Lord can be very explicit in his wishes as he can issue them personally. Thus, despite his ‘lesser’ divine status, the Dark Lord commands a larger degree of respect from his non-clerical lackeys. Whereas most lay worshippers have rely on the faith in their gods, the followers of the Dark Lord know their lord and master is watching over them and this inspires them through fear or devotion.

Conversely, because the Dark Lord does not have control of what happens to his minions after they die, the servants of the Dark Lord are more afraid of death than those who have the comfort of a reward in the afterlife. The greatest reward is to be by the Dark Lord’s side when he rules the material plane. Thus, resurrection and necromancy are practised among all those of the servants of the Dark Lord who can afford to do so. In addition, the servants of the Dark Lord are not given to much introspection or philosophy; for the Intulo, it is not logical; the Orc-Kin think little of what lies beyond life and the Undead already know what they have achieved in death.

Because the Dark Lord rules rather than preaches, there is a greater flexibility among his servants to do as they see fit. The Dark Lord himself does not waste time in butchering innocents, but he does not stop his underlings doing so for his glory, provided they are not being too wasteful.

Clergy
The Dark Lord’s clergy is divided into two sections; those in the Dark Lands, and those outside it. Those in the Dark Lands when inducted into the clergy, as part of their initiation, are brought into the Dark Lord’s presence. These clerics have a wide choice of domains to serve, as the Dark Lord, not having a portfolio as such, merely provides supplies the power to his divine spell casters. It is a marked difference that his cleric’s spells do not take the form of prayers, but are rather more like an arcane spell user’s incantations.

Those outside the Dark Lands who cannot do this worship him more like a typical cleric. They have a limited access to domains, and their contact is much more like that with a typical deity.

If the Dark Lord wishes to send a message to his clerics, he tends to do so through rather more direct methods than dreams or visitations; a summons to the Dark Tower – or at least a clearly written set of orders – is more likely.

The basic tenets of the clergy is obedience to the Dark Lord and to the chain of command (but not blind obedience); efficiency of purpose and planning; utilising resources, be they material or people, without waste; acquisition of knowledge, even if it seems obscure or useless.

Temples
Temples in the Dark Lands tend to be adjoining to military establishments, as the clergy and the military are one and the same. They vary in appearance, but in all cases, while decorative, lack the ostentation of a typical church. Some often serve as hospitals, or are linked to other magical facilities.

Prayers
Prayers to the Dark Lord do not generally have a specific format; while the Dark Lord does not object to praise, he does not demand it. Prayers asking for the Dark Lord’s aid are generally made in clear concise terms with little flowery language and often an explanation to the purpose of the request. Daily prayers for divine spells are only required to be short and concise, but may be as long as the petitioner likes. “My Dark Lord, I ask you to grant me your power to work in your name” is a typical example.

Rites
The Dark Lord has no specific rites is his worship, though he does have several days a year in which his servants are allowed a celebration. The nature of the celebration and the reason for it vary sometimes, but always they are roughly evenly spaced, and there are always the same number, four.



"rank" ? (Neutral Good)
Portfolio: Death, life, the afterlife, the moon, night
Domains: Destruction, Dust, Earth, Glory, Good, Life, Moon, Pact, Repose, Renewal
Holy Symbol: Silver half-moon
Favoured Weapon: Greataxe (executioner’s axe) Divine Bastion ability (50% fortification), Divine Retribution Energy Dust and Slashing (Constitution)), Footsteps of the Divine movement (Burrow 20’), Interfaith Blessing (+1 to AC and saves)

Numori, the Mistress of the Moon, is the goddess of death. Unlike many such deities, she is a benevolent soul. Her gentle hand takes the old and world-weary on to their final resting place, eases the grief of those left behind, and carries off fallen heroes with accord. She hates death, seeing it as an evil of the universe, one which it could well do without, were it possible.

As this cannot be, Numori sees it as her duty to facilitate the passage of life into death as painlessly as she can. While many deities of death jealously guard the dead, Numori has no such feelings of propriety. Indeed, she encourages long life and good health. She sees immortals as laudable, having taken a stand against death itself.

However, Numori’s bearing is not always so kind. She despises evil even more than death, and remorselessly sends evil souls to their punishments in the hells. Along with her staunch allies, the Bright Lady and Nvyllisaerie, she is among the Dark Lord’s most intractable foes. She hates most Undead; not for avoiding death, but rather the great suffering and evil they so often bring. However, non-Evil Undead she treats as any other soul.

Numori is a goddess of life as well as death. Death, after all, cannot occur without life before it. She is associated with both winter and spring, being the death and rebirth of the years.

Numori is closely associated with the moon, and it’s mystical properties.

She appears in the guise of a pale beautiful, soft-eyed maiden, clad in whispering black silk with inlays of silver. Her long sable hair flows back behind her head down to her hips and she smiles gently at her supplicants and speaks to them in a soft and kindly voice.

To her enemies, however, she is terrible. Her hair streams out around her, and she appears garbed in leather armour and bearing a fearsome executioner’s axe in her hand which blazes with white fire. Her eyes burn with an awful silver radiance that none can look upon without fear. Her clarion voice, as she proclaims their doom, echoes and reverberates throughout her surroundings.

She has association with bats, owls and spiders; the former as aspects of the night and the moon and the latter as guardians of tombs and places of internments.

Numori’s traditional symbol is a half-moon, representing both her death and life aspects in the darkness and the light. In occasions where only one of these aspects is invoked (as in crypts or hospitals) the moon is shown in either new or full. In places of burial, spider symbology is not uncommon; often, of a spider dangling from a silk thread superimposed over a new or half moon.

Dogma
?

Clergy
?

Temples
?

Prayers
?

Rites
?

[Everyl]

An obvious, but perhaps cliched, option for the Dark Lord's symbol would be a black gauntlet. It's dark, and representative of his militant nature, plus the "ruling with an iron fist" symbolism. Since his clergy and his military have a great deal of overlap, the black gauntlet could actually be a part of their uniform.

Another option would be something that he had with him at the end of the Godswar. His short sword has existed since before the Bronze Age of the setting, and no doubt its divine quality and unfamiliar material (steel?) made quite an impression on early mortals who he introduced himself to. Even before he was actively raising a cult, it could have become a symbol associated with him, especially since the first people he worked extensively with used a pictographic writing system. Like the gauntlet, it doubles as something that could be used by his officer-clergy - their holy symbols could be actual swords, made to emulate the design of the Dark Lord's God-Forged Blade, that they routinely use in battle.

As for the God of Slaughter, I think you might want to stay away from the moon symbolism, since you already have a completely different deity with lunar associations. Besides that, my idea is already in the post I snuck in while you were typing up all that setting info.

[Avaris]

How attached are you to the idea of the Dark Lord being 'dark'? From what you've said so far, I'm wondering if his symbol should be the Sun.

This may seem counterintuitive, but hear me out. He is older than the Gods themselves, therefore his symbol should be something both strong and unchanging. The Sun is always there, and always has been, always will be. The land wears away with time, even the stars shift in the heavens, only the Sun is absolute.

There were once Sun Gods of course, before his wars. Yet they were all burned away. The desolute lands he rules are those facing the full force of the sun, and to reach his tower one must walk for many days under its baking heat. By contrast the far north, the area safest from the forces of evil, are colder and harsher, away from his gaze. The lizardfolk among his servants are less able to fight here, giving the forces of good the edge they need.

Because his symbol is the Sun, the other Gods are often associated with night. They visit in dreams, and are comforts in the long cold nights. The Bright Lady is chief among these: she was once a sun god herself, said to be the last, but now she is seen in the light of candles and the fire of the hearth. When the Sun Lord falls she will claim his crown, and the sun will become the symbol of hope it was always meant to be.

Edit: also means you can have his undead be Mummies.

[Aotrs Commander]

Another option would be something that he had with him at the end of the Godswar. His short sword has existed since before the Bronze Age of the setting, and no doubt its divine quality and unfamiliar material (steel?) made quite an impression on early mortals who he introduced himself to. Even before he was actively raising a cult, it could have become a symbol associated with him, especially since the first people he worked extensively with used a pictographic writing system. Like the gauntlet, it doubles as something that could be used by his officer-clergy - their holy symbols could be actual swords, made to emulate the design of the Dark Lord's God-Forged Blade, that they routinely use in battle.

That's not a bad idea...

I like sword better than gauntlet, since sword are sharp... And things like "sharp" and "keen" and such also are applied as positive adjectives to intelligence, which is the Dark Lord's big thing.

Yeah, I think definately some sort of blade is going to have to be involved.


As for the God of Slaughter, I think you might want to stay away from the moon symbolism, since you already have a completely different deity with lunar associations. Besides that, my idea is already in the post I snuck in while you were typing up all that setting info.

Point.

And yes, said idea also bears some merit in me having a good think about.


How attached are you to the idea of the Dark Lord being 'dark'? From what you've said so far, I'm wondering if his symbol should be the Sun.

Pretty attached, since this campaign world is now well into it's first decade...! (There has just been no particular reason that has required me to do much with the deities until now, aside from lay a few mechanics and ideas down.) But "Dark" is by this point pretty heavily established (Dark Elves, Dark Dwarves, Dark Men, Dark Lands, Black Necromancy (and Undead - which is a big thing for the Dark Lord as well - absorbing the anti-laser shadow energy), one of the Dark Lord's big head honchos being a Shadow Drake, the fact his armies are called Shadow Guard Armies (the equivilent of the Northern Nations not-Roman Legions) and that Xooruun Kovytorr translates to "Fortress of Eternal Darkness..."

So it's pretty entrenched in the mythos by this point...!

Actually, it's a bit more than that - it was central to the entire campaign world's creation. As Dreemaenhyll came to me on day while out walking with my Dad on a local resevoir. At the time, they had only just planted a load of tree, so from the top of the nearby hill, you had an unobstructed view across the reservoir. On that particular day, the weather was fine, but turning into a squall, and the shadow of the clouds meant that, from where we were standing, the hillside and the reservoir were in light, and the land beyond the damn was in shadow. And it immediately struck me as us standing on the fringes of the land of some Dark Lord...

Things just followed from that!



(I'm not sure the Dark Lord, with his big thing about innovation and advancement and knowledge, would be overly into associating himself with something unchanging, either.)



But, all that said, it's an idea with some considerable merit, so it might well find it's way in somewhere into the mythology, perhaps in one of the national pantheones (mayhaps the not-Egyptian one, since they have the desert thing going for them as well.)

[Grim Portent]

If the Dark Lord is focused on innovation, intelligence and war then how about three hands joined at the wrist to form a three pointed star, one holding a sword to represent war, one a chisel or similar tool to represent craft and invention, and the last a scroll or wand to represent knowledge and intellect.

[Avaris]

Heh, fair enough! Sort of surprised that you haven't had a symbol for him before now though...

That said, could still work. You can't have shadows without a source of light... The sun is constant, like the lord himself, but the shadows it casts forever shift, like his servants. Could be a nice reveal for your players to have the lord himself be different in flavour to what they've been fighting...

[Aotrs Commander]

Okay, back to quest-writing (or at least the world-building I need to do to get quest writing...)

So, first order of business - the Dark Lord's symbol (because the first job in working out what Rututhoroesh's symbol will be is what it isn't.)

Did a quick bit of googling or heraldry for a few ideas and came up with this:

The Dark Lord’s symbol has many variations, after so many centuries. Several times, the symbol has been changed or modified, but the basic device has remained the most common one. The most simple form is a silver or blue-white shortsword, point uppermost, on a black field, with a iron or black crown on a red field above it. The sword represents the Dark Lord’s own blade – a holy relic in its own right – as well as the more typical martial connotation and the association with keen or sharp intellect. The black and red fields represent a landscape at sunset, and the crown his dominion.

More elaborate versions have a raven (or latterly, Gagana) between the sword and the crown, seen head on, wing spread and raised in flight, frequently (especially when the Gagana is used) with talons outstretched in mid-strike (representing intelligence, cunning and the harbinger of death). The ravan or Gagana is placed in the red sky-field. Sometimes the raven is replaced with stylised rays of light abve the sword, typically a cold blue or gold – representing magic – in the black field.

Many temples have a tapestry or painted wall (or on rarer occasions stained glass windows) behind the alter that have the symbol displayed full-length, with all of the aspects (sword, rays, raven, crown), with the black and red fields replaced with a more natural-looking land and sky-scape and considerabl greater artistry. The land is typically depicted as a dark desert or waste land with no vegetation (representing the landscapes around Ranakintulo and later on Xooruun Kovytorr), sometimes with small depictions of one or both to the left and right sides of the horizon. The sun and moon are sometimes shown as subdued orbs, just above the horizon, underneath the raven’s wings, indicating the subserviance to the Dark Lord. The sky scape sometimes fade to black above the crown, but no clouds or stars are shown above the crown, which is always the upper most portion of the device.



Edit: Okay, I've had a first pass at writing Rurtuthoroesh up properly, which should give me a clearer idea of what I'm looking at. I've slightly altered my initial thoughts, and expanded him rather into violence, murder and general violent crime.

Short bit of background:

Gods themselves basically work a bit like Discworld in that they are formed from belief, until they hit a certain point when they become self-sustaining. However, even them, they are remote and often cannot affect the world directly or obviously, working through dream or prophecy or their mortal servants. Which means there is always some element of uncertainty when it comes to gods. There is also a second threshold, however, where the god is powerful enough to be able to start directly manifesting and/or affecting the world, which major gods like Numori have achived1.

Secondly, when something dies, it generates a surge of negative energy. The more powerful the negative emotional state something is, the bigger the surge (obviously meaning intelligence creatures generate a lot more than animals, and they than plants). This is how naturally occurring Undead form (when the negative energy generated is powerful enough) and is literally the reason for ritual sacrifice, because that's basically what fuels the ritual.

So thinking about that kind of made it a no-brainer that that is what Rurtuthoroesh is after - accumulation of his own power by making his mortal servants kill people nastily.

It also answered Lord Vukodlak's query - which I think was one of the most important, since it made me stop dead and re-evaluate what I was doing - about why Tyranny: the actual domain is mostly mind-control spells and such - the better to screw with your victims. I also removed Darkness add added Suffering - as Lord Vukodlak suggested - as the former seemed a bit superflous and the latter is a much better fit now.


(This also fits in with the quest in question. The PCs basically found a holy book of a cult in their last adventure and are tracking it down in this one. They'll actually find that the cult tried to summon a [Insert Rurtuthoroesh servitor/Demon] and it Went Horribly Wrong - the got killed and the [Thing] got loose and has been murdering people - and slowly escalating since.)

Rurtuthoroesh
Rank? (Neutral Evil)
Portfolio: Slaughter, murder, suffering, violent crime (Cave Orcs)
Domains: Cavern, Death, Evil, Hatred, Suffering, Tyranny, Wrath, Wounding
Holy Symbol: ?
Favoured Weapon: ?

Rurtuthoroesh is the god of murder, slaughter and suffering. His worshippers are those who enjoy inflicting pain for its own sake and the sense of power it gives them. He thrives of the torment of others, especially the innocent. It is a commonly held belief that he draws power from the negative energy released on such deaths and that it grants him as much if not more power than worship itself.

Rurtuthororesh was for millenia and fairly minor god, of secret cults and barbarism. It is believed he originated from a tribal diety of a particularly brutal Triack tribe, long since extinct. His worship spread enough that, combined with the bloody sacrifices to his name, he was able to become a self-sustaining, if minor deity.

The end of the Dark Wars and the Scattering of the Orc-Kin afforded him a new opportunity. As many of the scattererd bands of Orc-Kin diverged away from their martial, organised route towards tribal barbarianism, Rututhoroesh managed to subvert many into his worship from the Dark Lord. Cave Orcs, in particular, became his favourites and they took to his teaching with abdandon, to the point he became their patron god. Today, he is thus worshipped by most Orcs outside of the Dark Lands, often as head of their small pantheon (though in many tribes, the position of head the pantheon varies between Rurtuthoroesh and the Dark Lord and is subject to change dependant on tribal politics.)

Rurtuthoroesh is still active as a cult god in civilised areas – perhaps more so now than ever, as the greater power he has been afforded has granted him greater reach. There, he is worshipped by secret cults who practise ritual sacrifice, but also sometimes grants his gifts and protection to lone serial murders or rapists. These individuals, so “blessed” by their patron often escalate quickly into greater and more brutal violence beofre they are finally killed.

He is also worshipped by the Night Elves as a subsidary deity to Kranzikael.

Rurtuthoroesh’s worshipped is equally outlawed in all of the Northern Nations and the Dark Lord’s domains and is often punishable by death (especially in the latter.)

Dogma
Rurtuthoroesh’s edicts are that the weak and innocent deserve to be punished and that only by slaughter, murder and other violence can one gain strength and satisifaction – though this dogma often varies from cult to cult, with whatever is needed to stimulate his faithful into the acts of violence he craves.

Rurtuthoroesh’s purview is primarily physical violence and torture, but he also has some appreciatation for the subtler tortures like emotional manipulation, especially if it helps conceal a cult from detection to allow them to work much longer.

However, his drive to violence almost always ends in a cult slipping into less and less subtle methods until eventually they are discovered and eliminated.

Temples

Cult temples to Rurtuthoroesh are hidden, secret affairs. They are not usually afforded much decoration and cerimony, often consisting of a sacrifical alter and his symbol.



So now I have a better basis to start looking at his holy symbol and things like his favoured weapon both for which I'm still open to suggestion!



1Basically, I wanted to strike a nice balance between big, obvious D&D-ish gods and more subtle "gods-work-in-mysterious and incomprehensible ways." Nations with big pantheons, for example, have their faith spread out over said pantheon, so said deities tend not to be evident as the international gods, like Numori and the Bright Lady.

[AcerbicOrb]

Perhaps you could use a lamb. It'd fit with the saying "Like Lambs to the slaughter" and would raise virtually no suspicion.

[Avaris]

Being a tribal basis, maybe some sort of trophy collecting? The weak deserve to be punished, therefore followers keep a trophy from what they view as their most powerful vanquished foe, showing that they themselves are not weak. Anything you have defeated must be weak.

Such a system could be interesting for a couple of reasons. First, followers could assess how 'fresh' each other's symbol is: ok, you have a bloody claw from that beast you killed 2 years ago, but you haven't done anything since? Weak!

Second, holy symbols become disposable if necessary. You are an underground cult needing a holy symbol for a ceremony? Kill a powerful foe, use them as a trophy/symbol to focus your rites, then dispose of the evidence and go your seperate ways.

Of course, this means there won't be a constant symbol, but if you need one a severed hand/claw would work, traditionally designed to look as ferocius as possible, so a dragon claw or something.

Also fits nicely with your small gods thing: the symbols have power not from a common form, but from the belief placed in them.

[Ormvsay]

What about a gaping, blood-red maw filled with shadows? The god of slaughter hungers...

[sktarq]

How about a Red and White vertically striped field?
It's history and symbolism being similar to the use of red in several flags in the real world. If say it has five vertical stripes of red with seven of white (or any other background colour but I like white for the innocence factor) then it could be very much the pattern that an early - perhaps first enemy made with the fingers of his hand on a shield or chest-plate. This is how the Catalan flag was made in legend. Could give a secondary symbol of a bloody, or even just red gauntlet/hand used in places where the worship is more open or as a mark of the priesthood.

[Aotrs Commander]

Still taking note of all the ideas...

Stalled on it for a moment, while I deal with some other pieces of the puzzle - specifically dealing with Rurtuthoroesh's divine servants.

[Ormvsay]

Maybe for a servant It could use living shadows? They could have powers of possession, and It'd use them to drive people to murder, or send rulers into calamitous wars, or something like that.

[Aotrs Commander]

Maybe for a servant It could use living shadows? They could have powers of possession, and It'd use them to drive people to murder, or send rulers into calamitous wars, or something like that.

I'm actually well into the mechanics part (even though - very unusualyl for me - I haven't actually got the what-it-looks like, other than a vaguely humanoid thingy with really big claws).

Basically, I trawled mythology for something vaguely suited (rather than make up something totally new) and settled for the Akkadian demon Rabisu. Which with a bit of tweaking fits nicely as a devil for Rurtuthoroesh. It has some limited telekinesis (Greater Mage Hand) because some of the stuff I read on the Rabisu suggested they did, more than any mechanics reason. (And I figured it could use it to do neat distracty-things.) It's smart - to start with - and does a lot of stalking, finding out about it's victim. Then when they're isolated, it ambushes them, starting with it's Suggestion to look into it's eyes. It has a gaze - not a true gaze attack, per say - than basically renders the victim helpless (save penalty if it hit you with Suggestion first) and compliant to simple commands (like "follow me"). It then leads the victim off somewhere quiet and butchers the unresisting fool with it's dirty great claws. (You get a big have bonus if you're already fighting it, though.) It also has a fear SLA.

The Rabisu basically funnels the negative energy from the victim's fear and/or death straight to Rurtuthoroesh. It's thus immune to negative energy. It actually heals when it hits something with it's claw attacks, and if it kills something, not only does it heal, it gets an extra use of one of it's SLAs (any extra it doesn't use goes to the bodd in ten minutes or so.)

The part I stalled out - and required the second thread - was basically when I came to the DR. The quest calls for the PCs being attacked and a Nameless Guy who's with them to get topped while they can't do anything to it (them being 3rd level and in a world where magic weapons are dead rare). The PCs will then have to go brave a barrow to get some magic kit with which to - now prepared kill it with.

It occurred to me that the choice of DR-penetrating metal might be something to bear in mind on the holy symbol, which is why I'm going to tackle that next.

(Plus, all this keeps me actually quest writing. I'm rushing a bit more than I usually would - hense the threads - I normally only quest-write one day a week, which gives me more musing time. But I'm having a good go at clearing the decks of every taks on my list this year, so I'm forging on ahead a pace. So while the holy symbol is important, to some extent it's a detail I can go back in and fill in at the end.

Like I said though, this thread not onyl has some good ideas in the direction, bouncing things off you guys has made me stop and think about what I'm doing harder and realising I actually can't short-cut the world-building...!)

[Meowmasterish]

I think an amazing idea for a god of death's symbol would be a Cŵn Annwn (pronounced Koon ANN-oon). It's basically a big black dog. I think that with a little embellishment, it could easily be a hound of death. In welsh mythology, the Cŵn Annwn was a hound used by the wild hunt, which does exist in D&D (3.5), but their dogs are called something like "Hound of the Hunt," which can easily be ignored.

EDIT: Apparently their names translate to "Hound of the Underworld," who knew?

[Aotrs Commander]

It just shows how it all ties in...

If you've not followed my other thread, the DR-penetrator became alum bronze (i.e. an aluminum bronze). Just about feasible as a highly expensive alloy created from alum salts. It also has the advantage of being a beautiful gold colour.

Having gone and worked out my DR-penetrator, I needed my Better Than That version (to go along with silver's Moon-Steel (re mithril) and cold iron's Star Metal... So it wanted to be sun-something, as that even gave us a nice moon-sun-stars theme!

After a lot of searching of anicent languages I ended up cribbing the name for the "better than that" version from Sumerian - anbarutu (lit: heavenly metal power in the sun). More by accident than by design. And of course, the servitor - the Rabisu came from being as it's a sumerian monster...!

So, having added a not-Sumerian culture to the world's pre history, I did a bit more thinking. I have - finally - written down some coherent ideas on how the deities "work").

When the original dieties of Dreemaenhyll left after the end of the Xakkath Demon Wars, the traces of magic, the background divination magic remained. With no controls, it followed the path of least resistance like water. Negative energy released from deaths of creatures, and psionic energy from life itself, be it sentient or animal emotion, began to collate. With nowhere to go and no gods to guide it, the energy flowed back to the prime or remained in the Ethereal plane. The energy from life that flowed back into the Prime formed from emotion drifted through the psychic plane. The latent divine energy acted on these other energies, and began to form spirits. They had no form as yet, but there were many. As civilisation arose, nascent faith and belief began to shape these spirits, and make them real. This process is known as faith-forming.

The smallest and weakest spirits would eventually become the Fey. The larger spirits formed new gods.

Fey, once called into being, were products of the material plane and had no true connection to – in exactly same way a conjuration spell can magically create a nonmagic object. The Fey required less divine energy to call into being and formed during the earliest periods, while the faith in the gods was building. As the power of the gods rose, the gods took the majority of the faith-energy and belief (for one did not need to believe in the corporeal Fey) and as a result, the faith-forming of the Fey ceased. (This is not to say that no new forms of Fey appeared, but that faith-forming was no longer the action that created them.)

The gods, unlike the Fey, did not materialise on the material plane. They have a more complicated relaionship with faith, belief and latent divine energy. When first created, a god is distant and formless, not truly conscious and not able to affect the material world except through the belief of others. At this stage, their most notable trait is that they provide a means to catalyse spells. At the most primitive level, where such is not a deity but a belief or philosophy, perhaps just of one person, an adhearant’s spells are essentially Natural spells. As the belief spreads and grows, however, the diety is formed more from those beliefs and takes on the properties it is assigned. Some philophies never spread past this stage, not being truly alive or sentient, especially if the belief that forms them does not ascribe to them those properties.

At some point, the amount of faith and belief given the deity allow them to awaken and become sentient. It is unclear as to whether at this stage, these entities are also self-aware, sapient, or possess any true intentionality or whether any such traits displayed are merely a product of the “programming” of ther faith. They are still remote and distant from the world, only able to communicate indirectly and obliquely, but the power they grant is now divine rather than natural. These deities are sustained solely on the faith of their worshippers, and if the worship should cease, they will slip back into non-existance. At this stage of power, it is thus often unclear as to whether the diety is indeed truly real and awakened, or whether some other power grants the spells and miracles or whether it is just unconscious divine energy. The divine realms of these awakened dieties are usually exceptionally hard to get to, if they exist in reality at all. They are entirely at the whims of their faithful and are still fluid and changable. At this stage, they can be subsumed with other deities as worship spreads and mingles over time or even by more powerful divine entities.

The differences and progression between these states is difficult to properly quantify or understand , given the nature of the entities in question and whether they are even “real” at all. Indeed, much of what precedes is supposition and theory gleaned from centuries of study (especially by the Dark Lord and his servants who have a vested interest) and is denied or challenged as heresy by most faiths.

There eventually comes a point when enough faith and worship accumulates that the god awakens and become self-sufficient. This happens when the belief becomes widespread, sometimes due to the deity alone, other times when similiar faiths mingle and subblimate through cultural exchange. Many of the current major gods formed from such amalgamation of early faiths over the millenia. A god who has reached this stage is truly real, with their own divine realm and servitors. They no longer need the worship of their followers to survive (though they still draw the majority of their power from them) and have essentially become entities in their own right. As this stage, as sapient entities, they are no longer ruled by the faith and can begin to make their own choices and rulings to their faithful.

Deities at this stage are closer – though still distant – from the material world, but their divine realms can be travelled to, and they can interact more directly with the Prime. Some however, prefer to keep as remote and distant as they were before, so even at this stage, it can be unclear as to whether a deity truly exists.

The deity can now manifest outside of its home divine realm, through an avatar. Deities can manifest such avatars relatively easily on other divine realms as well, though strong, are still not as powerful as on their home plane. There is a danger, however – a diety slain while using the majority of their power to manifest such an avatar will truly die. Manifesting an avatar on the Prime material plane (or its local planes) is considerably more effort. A avatar on the Prime is only a fraction of the strength of the diety. The direct connection is much weaker, so such avatars are “safer”, to a degree. While the backlash of the avatar’s destruction at the hands of most mortals would be painful, but not fatal, at the hands of a powerful enough being – a demon, celestial, divine servitor, spellcaster or most pertinently, the Dark Lord – could be far more injurous or lethal, depending on the power.

For faiths that comprise panetheons, especially large pantheons, the situation can be further complicated. The major gods may in fact be full awakened, but the minor ones still remote. There is a degree of self-reinforcement that means that the fully awakened god’s belief in their compatriots pushes them to consciousness. However, even then, many of the lesser deities are more analgous to Fey existing in a divine realm than a full deity, and they may still be vulnerable to fading to nothing without worship should they fall out of favour or their major gods be killed.

There is a final stage known, whereby the gods accumulate sufficient power to be able to travel directly to other plances, including the Prime. Only the most powerful and revered dieties can acomplish this; while many faiths claim that their god has done so, the only ones who have verifiably done so are the Bright Lady Elliaestyllyne, Numori and Nvyllisaerie, during the Dark Wars.

It should be noted that there is a distinction here between travelling in person and manifesting through an avatar of greatly lesser power. Herontes and Merscus the Mighty in particular have manifested on the material on numeroues occasions, and while they are most proficient at their avatars, and thus carry a greater amount of power, they are still only avatars. (Though, of course, this is flatly denied by their clergy – and to most mortals, the difference is largely academic in any case.) A diety that travels directly carries all of their power with them – though of course, if slain, they would truly die.

The relative vulnerability of the avatars means that the presence of the Dark Lord discourages the gods from manifesting or travelling to the material. Such events leave ripples easily detected, and the greater the presense and power, the faster they can be located. The Dark Lord is himself sufficiently powerful that it makes such events extremely dangerous. On the Prime Matertial plane, the Dark Lord is capable of beating entire pantheons at their dimished power (and fatally so). For much the same reasons, the gods would be loathe to support one another if the Dark Lord attacked their divine realms directly (though it is as difficult for him to reach them as it is for mortals). Those that would selflessly aid the others are not strong enough to defeat the Dark Lord without other divine backup. This was proven during the Dark Wars, Elliaestyllyne, Numori and Nvyllisaerie travelled directly to engage the Dark Lord in direct combat only once. The damage to the region was catastrophic and all three were forced to flee before they were killed.

Conversely, the Dark Lord is aware that if the gods combined all their might, especially on a divine realm, he would be likely overwhelmed. He does thus not take the risk (or not lightly) and stays on the material, rather than try to create his own divine realm where he would be more vulnerable to their greater power. He is very aware that it is largely the selfishness of most of the gods, that means they are not prepared to risk their own existance to destroy him, that keeps him safest. He also views the ones who would as the most dangerous (e.g. the Bright Lady and her allies, Herontes), as he knows if they should form a big enough faction, he could be seriously placed at risk.

Finally, while there is a corrolation between the stage of a deity and their overall power, it is not a direct link. Rurtuthoroesh, for example, while being self-sufficient, is only a minor god in terms of power.


The TL:DR is basically, that gives me the balance I wanted between the very "is a character" sort of D&D/Golarion sort of gods and the "actually, you don't really know" sort of gods. (As now, aside from the really big name gods, you often have to kinda literally take it on faith.)

And as part of the rumination, it got me thinking... Why not make Rurtuthoroesh one of the ancient pantheon. Take out the "thoro" part and you actually have a fairly Sumerian sounding Rurtuesh. It also make a bit more sense - he's a minor god, but he's been around a loooong time... And the reason he wants all the negative energy from suffering is to make himself more powerful and more towards the othe gods who have the benefit of far more worshippers. And it thus fit with the Mesopotamian theme I'd started by picking the Rabisu as his divine servitor.

So now, he started out as a death god of Not-Sumer, who spread disease, corruption and lies. He was not venerated, so much as appeased. His weakness that he couldn't tell lies while under the light of the sun. Anbarutu takes its name from the reputed throne of the Not-Sumerians, who found a huge nugget (perhaps left by the old gods) and fashioned it into a throne for their king, so that he was always protected from Rurtuesh by the light of the sun.

(And as it was so early, because of faith-forming, inadvertently created the whole vulnerability to alum bronze/anbarutu for all the LC-neutral outsiders!)

When he became self-sufficient, he was no longer bound by the lie rule (even if it was retained later in the faith anyway.)

In his earlies incrantion, he also was said to fee off the suffering and death of other instead of meat and bread - so eventually, that DID give him sustenance. Not enough to make him powerful, but enough that he was closer to self-sufficiency when the Not-Sumerians finally collapsed.

He then got into Triack tribe mentioned in the blurb on the previous stage, and that allowed him to hit the breakpoint. He took their word "thoro" meaning great and became Rurtuthoroesh.

All that meant it ALSO simplified what his symbol would be... Because I could go an have a look a Sumerian symbology.

There's not a close anologue, but in the end, I'm taking some inspiration from Kur the dragon-god of the underworld. The cuniform symbol for which is three triangles, a bit like the symbol for nuclear power.

Rurtuthoroesh's basic holy symbol will thus be three narrow isosceles triangles, one atop the other two, pointing downwards in red, purple or black. This represents either some sort of bloody claws of daggers striking downwards OR the transfer of his power from the lower (mortal) realm to the higher (divine) realm. (His clergy and scholars can have lots of (violent) debates about which it is.) And by co-incidence rather than design, the Rabisu has three fingers that end in claws which are their primary weapon!

It's also a fairly easy symbol to hide (it could be simplified to just three lines if you wanted to be circumspet).


So, for all the effort and hours I've put in, between the two threads, we've turned Rurtuthoroesh from a Generic Cave Orc Slaughter God into an ancient and canny diety, the oldest surviving god and inherently tied him into the whole mythology; perhaps not the most important god, but one of the most influential!

Just to round things off, then, how would you expand that symbol into a more artistic version for the rare occasions he'd actually want a symbol that showed off his stuff properly?