phoenix as a pet

[luthais]

Wondering if anyone has crunched the numbers to make a phoenix acceptable as a pet/familiar for lvls 1-10. My wife says she might play a druid if I let her have one as a pet. It doesn't have to a combat pet either, but I'll need to know the stats for it. I was kinda thinking of using the stats from raven, would those be suitable?

[HaikenEdge]

A phoenix is a 20HD creature in MM2 with an intelligence of 18, making it as smart as the smartest normal humans. Makes it really inappropriate for a pet or animal companion.

[INoKnowNames]

I'm actually pretty sure the only stated Phoenix I've seen was less pet and more Big Good material. It was like an ECL 26ish creature, I think? Edit: I see I have been swordsaged, but at least I was right, and I provided more information!

That said, if you're looking for like a Baby Phoenix or something like that, you could find another small magical bird, give it a flame based breath weapon and reincarnate itself when killed (possibly vunerable to permanent death only when slain in this reincarnated phase). And then maybe any other powers you would deem appropriate for it, like healing abilities.

Though this kind of familiar would be one that is probably most deserved at like at least mid level, and with a feat to match, I assume. In terms of power, reminds me a bit of a wyrmling dragon. Stat wise in general, the Elysian Thrush comes to mind, more so than a Raven, anyway.

[luthais]

That said, if you're looking for like a Baby Phoenix or something like that, you could find another small magical bird, give it a flame based breath weapon and reincarnate itself when killed (possibly vunerable to permanent death only when slain in this reincarnated phase). And then maybe any other powers you would deem appropriate for it, like healing abilities..

This is what I was looking for. I know MM2 says they reincarnate as full grown, but shouldn't they start off as babies? I know, applying real world biology to mythical creatures, but it's plausible I think. I wouldn't say it is inappropriate to have a baby phoenix as a pet/familiar. Any suggestions on small magical birds that I could refluff? Haven't had a chance to really study the monster manuals like I should have.

[HaikenEdge]

I'd think the rebirth trait alone would make the creature ECL 13-15 at least, depending on how it works mechanically. Basically, a phoenix is a really inappropriate creature to have as a pet or an animal companion because it's a highly intelligent creature, to a point where it might be more appropriate for the player to be the phoenix's humanoid companion.

[Skysaber]

Dweomercraft: Familiars had a small magical bird composed of flame specially suited to be familiars. It was around page 30 or so, if you have a copy.

[luthais]

I realize using the phoenix by RAW is very OP as pet/familiar, which is why I'm asking if anyone has a homebrew variant, so it becomes viable in the way I want to use it. Sorry if I wasn't very clear on that.

[INoKnowNames]

I'd think the rebirth trait alone would make the creature ECL 13-15 at least, depending on how it works mechanically. Basically, a phoenix is a really inappropriate creature to have as a pet or an animal companion because it's a highly intelligent creature, to a point where it might be more appropriate for the player to be the phoenix's humanoid companion.

A full power adult phoenix would be entirely inappropriate, yeah. But if the Dm's willing to beat it with the nerf stick, I could see it being fun but not overpowered. For the resurrection, maybe the creature would be reduced to a flightless, helpless, featherless form for a number of days equal to 21 - its hit dice (so a full strength phoenix would only be incapacitated for a day)... ontop of everything else, this is still an advanced companion, but not entirely implausible, I suppose.


This is what I was looking for. I know MM2 says they reincarnate as full grown, but shouldn't they start off as babies? I know, applying real world biology to mythical creatures, but it's plausible I think. I wouldn't say it is inappropriate to have a baby phoenix as a pet/familiar. Any suggestions on small magical birds that I could refluff? Haven't had a chance to really study the monster manuals like I should have.

Depending on the Mythos, either Phoenixes reach adulthood super fast (and thus aren't at all capable of being familiars unless they're responding to, like, an Epic Level PC), or have an overall age, and the reincarnation process is just a way for them to recover themselves after being destroyed, making them almost entirely immortal (not sure where I've heard this one; the former is much more popular, I'll admit).

Look up the Corollax in MM2, the Elysian Thrush in the Planar Handbook, and maybe the Celestial Owl from the SRD/MM1. You can probably find a blend of stats from one or more of them to shape your firebird.


I realize using the phoenix by RAW is very OP as pet/familiar, which is why I'm asking if anyone has a homebrew variant, so it becomes viable in the way I want to use it. Sorry if I wasn't very clear on that.

Ooh. I'm sorry. Yeah, never much of a homebrewer myself; there is a homebrew section if you want to ask there. Though that firebird familiar the above poster mentioned might bare promise...

[Phelix-Mu]

I think it would be best to homebrew some kind of lesser phoenix, or phoenix-touched bird, if you will. Keep the phoenix flavor, nerf the SLAs and such, and keep the hard-to-kill aspect. As long as the rebirth is an out-of-combat scale thing, it's probably more balanced than not.

Plus, if she's playing a druid, she should have a spare feat to drop on a homebrewed Super Awesome Pet, to balance the fact that it can't die (well, practically so).

[nolongerchaos]

A phoera from MM3 might do the trick nicely, with only a little refluff and probably druid at level -3 or something.

[Particle_Man]

Is reincarnation a big deal for a druid's pet? If a nonreincarnating one died, the druid could get another one in 24 hours. Is this that different from one that reincarnates after 24 hours of the druid's uninterrupted prayer?

So that said, maybe add the half-dragon (gold, brass, red) template to a hawk or raven, and refluff, and treat as druid -3? (if the wife wants it sooner, have it be a regular funny coloured hawk at first, and let it "grow into" half-dragon status as it gets older)?

Does your wife need it to fly (if not, maybe a fire mephit would do)? Does it have to set everything on fire by touching it, or just have "special effects" that make it look all firey?

[Bronk]

Okay, so arcane casters can get the 'elemental familiar' spell

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/sb/sb20011109a

which turns their regular familiars into an elemental that looks the same as it did before, but is an elemental, with all the stats of an elemental. Then you have the 'Elemental Companion' feat from Complete Mage, that lets a Druid have a regular elemental for a companion. She could take that feat, and you can rule that her companion happens to be an elemental that looks like a bird?

Maybe her druid could hail from the plane of fire and have an element creature as her companion?

[Ydaer Ca Noit]

Well the "it can't die" can just be a refluff of the fact that after 24 hours the druid can get a new animal companion. Just tell that it revives after 24 hours of having his ashes undisturbed. And use any animal/monster/modified creature you feel is at the right CR.

[Brookshw]

Take a psuedodragon's base stats and toss on some of the pheonix abilities perhaps?

BTW op, I like the Sig!

[Ruethgar]

Phoenix Touched.
This is an inherited template that may be applied to any bird or bird like magical beast, animal, or monstrous humanoid.

Size and Type: Size in unchanged. All Phoenix Touched gain the Fire subtype. Animals become magical beasts, all other types unchanged.
Hit Dice: Unchanged
Speed: The base creature improves flight maneuverability by one step. If the base creature did not have a flight speed, they gain one equal to twice their land speed with clumsy maneuverability.
AC: As base creature.
Attacks: A Phoenix Touched deals additional fire damage with natural attacks based on racial hit die. RHD<3:+1, RHD4-6:+1d4, RHD7-9: 1d8, RHD10-12: 1d12, RHD13+: 2d8
Special Attacks: Phoenix Touched retain all special attacks and gain the Monstrous template's fire breath. They also gain death throws out to their reach or 5ft whichever is higher. Death throws deal twice the Phoenix Touched bonus fire damage to natural attacks. The reflex save for half is Con based.
Special Qualities: Phoenix Touched gain the supernatural ability to revive from their own ashes after 24 hours. If the ashes are scattered such that the majority is not in the same location(defined as within a 10ft radius) after 24 hours, the Phoenix Touched cannot resurrect itself and must be revived by normal means.
Saves: As base creature.
Abilities: As base creature.
Skills: As base creature.
Feats: Phoenix Touched gain Diehard as a bonus feat.
CR: +2
Advancement: As base creature.
LA: +4

Or just throw the Monstrous(fire) template on an animal and add it to the Monstrous Companion feat list. Or make it a half fire elemental or an elemental denizen. The reincarnate ability is technically only a +1 LA for replicating a spell higher than normal.

[Darkweave31]

I did something like this on the homebrew forums recently-ish. Another option for the improved familiar feat. Link here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=322543).

[Urpriest]

There's an Elemental Companion ACF for Druids in Complete Mage. You could fluff the fire elemental as bird-shaped.

Keep in mind that in general, some sort of ACF or feat is appropriate for this, since a standard Druid has animals as companions, so this would require deviating from the fluff some.

[luthais]

After looking through the responses, and all of them were really interesting, I think I'm gonna go with Phoenix touched. Looking at putting on a corollax. Just for silliness, I'll name it Toyota, lol. Thanks for all the help guys.

[fencepainter]

FWIW, I found this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15011473).

[Lappy9001]

I second using the corollax from MM2. It has rules for using it as a companion, 1/2 CR, and it even has a SLA. Swap it out with Cure Minor Wounds or something (Maybe Cure Light Wounds with a per day usage?) and call it a day. Just say phoenixes are smaller in your setting or it's a baby one.

It even already kinda looks like a phoenix (http://www.orcedinburgh.co.uk/wiki/Corollax).

[zephyrkinetic]

Late to the thread, but you could just give her an Ancient Black Dragon, instead. Has the same CR.

Nerfing the Phoenix is good in theory, but really, once you take the powers away from something, is it really a Phoenix?

Seriously, why not give her a cardinal and have the bard just cast Prestidigitation to make it look like it's on fire?

[Rubik]

I second using the corollax from MM2. It has rules for using it as a companion, 1/2 CR, and it even has a SLA. Swap it out with Cure Minor Wounds or something (Maybe Cure Light Wounds with a per day usage?) and call it a day. Just say phoenixes are smaller in your setting or it's a baby one.

It even already kinda looks like a phoenix (http://www.orcedinburgh.co.uk/wiki/Corollax).Looks more like an African grey red parrot, to me.

Isn't there a symbiote template or tauric template or something that basically meshes two creatures together for +2 LA or something, regardless of what the second creature is? Make the first creature a raven, and the second a phoenix. :smallamused: