Improved Shadow Familiars and Alignments

[Xuldarinar]

In spite of my long interest in the shadowcaster class, I only recently have even payed any thought to familiars. My question comes from the interaction of two feats, the Shadow Familiar feat, and the Improved Familiar feat.

With the improved familiar feat, you may gain a new familiar, limited only by your caster level and your alignment. With most spellcasting classes this is fairly straight forward. However, when we include the Shadow Familiar feat, things change a little because the acquired familiar would possess the dark template. Dark creature's alignment is usually one step different from the base creature, though rarely is good.

The question is really, is their selection for improved familiar based on the alignment of the familiar before application of the template, or the alignment of the familiar after?

For example, A dark stirge could be: LN, N, CN, or NE. Theoretically they could even be NG, but that is a rare case. Now, that doesn't really matter for N creatures, but what about things like the imp, a dark equivalent possibly being NE, LE, or LN. For the sake of the example, could a NG, LG, CE or CN Shadowcaster gain a dark imp as a familiar?

[Deophaun]

For example, A dark stirge could be: LN, N, CN, or NE. Theoretically they could even be NG, but that is a rare case.
I don't think the dark creature template ever moves a creature's alignment towards good; i think it's saying that if you somehow had a shadow lantern archon, only rarely would its alignment not change to neutral.

[peacenlove]

ToM, pg. 161
Alignment: Usually one step different from the base creature, rarely good.


MM I Glossary, pg 305
Usually: The majority (more than 50%) of these creatures have the given alignment. This may be due to strong cultural influences, or it may be a legacy of the creatures’ origin. For example, most elves inherited their chaotic good alignment from their creator, the deity Corellon Larethian.

The "rarely" tag, I have no idea how to translate in DnD terms.
EDIT: Now that I think about it, the "often" tag covers 40-50% of the alignment cases so "rarely" would cover less than this amount?

Lets take the shadow imp.
By my reading of the feat, he would have less than 50% chance of keeping his LE alignment and more than 50% to switching to either LN or NE.
The second sentence shows us that when the transformation occurs, the step taken is rarely at the "good" side of the alignment. So more chance of keeping a NE alignment if the alignment change occurs.

Hope that cleared out some things.

[Xuldarinar]

The "rarely" tag, I have no idea how to translate in DnD terms.

Lets take the shadow imp.
By my reading of the feat, he would have less than 50% chance of keeping his LE alignment and more than 50% to switching to either LN or NE.
The second sentence shows us that when the transformation occurs, the step taken is rarely at the "good" side of the alignment. So more chance of keeping a NE alignment if the alignment change occurs.

Hope that cleared out some things.

It does but let me get this straight.

CE and LE, we can assume will either remain the same or more likely translate to NE. Where as NE, we can assume it can be any E alignment. The Dark Goblin is listed as being NE, just like standard goblins, so we know that it can retain its previous alignment in this case. While its theoretically possible they could move up a step, these would be among a minority.

CN, N and LN most likely will translate to CE, NE, and LE respectively, though it is possible for N to become CN or LN, or either to become N. Given the examples in the book (ToM), N becoming NE, this is most likely to be the most common case.

CG, NG, and LG will translate to CN, N, and LN respectively. Seeing as they shift one step and its unlikely for them to stay good, its natural to just shift them down one step.

Now, do you believe the post-template alignment is what should be looked to for the purpose of selecting familiars, or pre-template alignment? I would assume the new, but I wanted to see what people here thought.


Edit: Now, a slightly different question. Which improved familiars would benefit most from the dark template?

[peacenlove]

Since the templaten is acquired OR inherited, you can choose an improved familiar with any alignment that fits the criteria.

Speedy and small elementals benefit most.
I have seen both bats and air elementals profit from the template.