[3.5] vow of hoarding

[Raezeman]

so i'm playing a (evil) dragonfire adept character in a campaign, and am playing him so that he get's more and more obsessed with gold and treasure as he gains DFA levels.
One such example: the group found a small golden dragon statue at some point together with various other loot, but instead of selling that, i took it, counting it's value towards my part of the loot and just keep it forever (cradling it even while asleep).

So now, i want him to start a hoard (though first mentioned as a joke, my DM loved the concept). But naturally, if i just plainly keep all raw gold and gems instead of buying strong magic equipment, when we reach later levels, he will be underpowered and killed by anything he faces. So i was thinking, what if we invent a feat, which i like to call vow of hoarding, somewhat similar to vow of poverty. With the poverty one, you don't get items, in exchange for bonuses. So, i was thinking, vow of hoarding would be similar as you obviously don't get (many) items and keep the gold instead, but you don't get automatic bonuses, but bonuses based on the amount of gold/gems/... you have on your person (bags of holding would still be ok).

Problem is, i'm not good at finding a balanced effect for this, so here is my question: how would make this feat work, AKA, what bonuses do you get for what amount of raw wealth you have on you. I was thinking safe throw bonuses, breath weapon DC bonuses, skill check bonuses, but i think the forum here can give more creative answers. Or maybe there is already a concept like that out there, which i couldn't find (i did try), so pointing me to that would also be great.

i am thinking, that if it is not actually overpowered and with the nice concept behind it, my DM would allow it.

[MrNobody]

I think that a good way to do this is setting "goals" you have to achieve with your wealth in order to get bonuses, all based on a percentage of your standard wealth by level (see the table at p. 135 in Dungeon master's guide).

Let's say, for example, bonuses starts when you have at least the 60% of your wealth by level in gold, gems and other precious objects that doesn't provide any kind of bonus, and improve every 10% thereafter.

At 60% your natural and held weapons are evil aligned, and get a vile +1 on hit rolls and damage for every other step you achive.
At 70% you get a (vile?) bonus to AC of +1, +1 for every other step you achieve
At 80% you get a (vile?) bonus to saves of +1, +1 for every other (two?) step you achieve.
And so on.

Bonus should be greater if you manage to get more that 100% of the wealth set for your level, maybe providing immunities, DR, SR and things like that.

This way you will always struggle to get gold to mantain your bonuses, since every time you level up, your wealth by level increase and your bonus decrease. If you are 9th level and you have 33.000 gp in raw wealth, you get the bonuses for having 90% of your set wealth in gold, but when you level up to 10th level the same 33.000 gp doesn't even reach the 70% of the wealth set for that level.

Just like a true dragon, you'll always be in a quest to enrich your treasure.

[Raezeman]

from one point of view, i do really like the percentage step things, it seems like a good mechanic, but then the effect of loosing a bonus when you reach higher level seems a bit weird. Then again, achieving greater power can make a certain amount of gold seem less significant. So there is that.
There is also the fact that the DM does not necessarily follows the wealth per level structure. In this case, neither percentage while, or bonuses based on raw amount are appropriate, as both would become basically useless in underpaid campaigns. Anyway, i think i need to discuss this with my DM in person, but thanks for the help.

If anyone does have a genius idea on the matter, feel free to speak out.

[Ydaer Ca Noit]

You can refluff the d&d market. Instead of buying a +1 armor, keep 1000gp in your stash. If you lose your GP you lose your armor. This has the benefit that it is 100% balanced, and you can still use your money or a nice weapon you randomly found if needed.

Btw this can turn ugly if you meet a rust monster or something similar :P

[ahenobarbi]

You could refluff Vow of Poverty (a feat from Book of Exalted Deeds). You pledge not to spend a penny on yourself and get the same benefits. Maybe you should gain abyssial heritor feats instead of exalted feats.

EDIT: One problem with benefits for kept % WBL is that you get the same benefits at level 1 and at level 20. For very different cost.

[rexx1888]

You could refluff Vow of Poverty (a feat from Book of Exalted Deeds). You pledge not to spend a penny on yourself and get the same benefits. Maybe you should gain abyssial heritor feats instead of exalted feats.

EDIT: One problem with benefits for kept % WBL is that you get the same benefits at level 1 and at level 20. For very different cost.

except thats a terrible feat that will make him objectively bad as he goes up in levels(u need magic items)

the best option is to use that one a few posts up about "spending" your gold on items except just getting the advantage from them without actually having them(its similar in concept to a fix on wealth by level referred to often as pretend WBL). This is important since you dont necessarily need raw numbers from your items, you need different damage types, magic weapons, fly etc from them, so you need flexibility not just numbers. it still puts you at risk like anyone else since your hoard can be stolen.

In fact, you could talk some kind of improved return on your "buying"(say you get extra numbers or a better flight etc) since your at a higher risk than your average party member to lose them. Maybe once you have more gold you have to sleep on it rather than just have it on you. Eventually you have to start showing it off by wearing piles of the stuff an such. The increased risk comes from the fact that you are essentially behaving like a dragon, except youre not one. Hell even dragons would want to eat you O.o

[ahenobarbi]

except thats a terrible feat that will make him objectively bad as he goes up in levels(u need magic items)

the best option is to use that one a few posts up about "spending" your gold on items except just getting the advantage from them without actually having them(its similar in concept to a fix on wealth by level referred to often as pretend WBL). This is important since you dont necessarily need raw numbers from your items, you need different damage types, magic weapons, fly etc from them, so you need flexibility not just numbers. it still puts you at risk like anyone else since your hoard can be stolen.

In fact, you could talk some kind of improved return on your "buying"(say you get extra numbers or a better flight etc) since your at a higher risk than your average party member to lose them. Maybe once you have more gold you have to sleep on it rather than just have it on you. Eventually you have to start showing it off by wearing piles of the stuff an such. The increased risk comes from the fact that you are essentially behaving like a dragon, except youre not one. Hell even dragons would want to eat you O.o


It's a weak feat. But way stronger than the other suggestion. Also with better list of bonus feats it could be on decent side of weak.

[MrNobody]

EDIT: One problem with benefits for kept % WBL is that you get the same benefits at level 1 and at level 20. For very different cost.

You see that as a problem because you are thinking about Vow of poverty, that give a huge amount of benefits spread on 20 lvl.
What i was thinking is a feat that can give you a lot, more than any other feat, but that require you to constant work to maintain it. And the difference of cost is real, yes, but gaining 1000gp at level 3rd is not harder that gaining 10000 at 10th and so on.
Also, i see it as really "draconic": a powerful dragon has an huge treasure, but the "huge treasure" for a young dragon is not the "huge treasure" of an ancient one. As a dragon grows and ages, the same amount treasure has less value and he has to loot more and more in order to mantain his "status".

[Raezeman]

In fact, you could talk some kind of improved return on your "buying"(say you get extra numbers or a better flight etc) since your at a higher risk than your average party member to lose them. Maybe once you have more gold you have to sleep on it rather than just have it on you. Eventually you have to start showing it off by wearing piles of the stuff an such. The increased risk comes from the fact that you are essentially behaving like a dragon, except youre not one. Hell even dragons would want to eat you O.o

about that, i would say having it all in a bag (or bags eventually) is enough to get the benefits, with maybe something like as long as you make some sort of nest out of it every night to sleep in.


You can refluff the d&d market. Instead of buying a +1 armor, keep 1000gp in your stash. If you lose your GP you lose your armor. This has the benefit that it is 100% balanced, and you can still use your money or a nice weapon you randomly found if needed.
:P

that seems a little weird to me, but not that balanced as you actually use a feat do to basically nothing.


Btw this can turn ugly if you meet a rust monster or something similar :P

Any rust monster or similar touching my hoard shall wish it was never born!


You could refluff Vow of Poverty (a feat from Book of Exalted Deeds). You pledge not to spend a penny on yourself and get the same benefits. Maybe you should gain abyssial heritor feats instead of exalted feats.


i'm liking this actually, especially the abyssal feats instead of exhaled. Maybe even vile feats (my DFA already has willing deformity [face], though it certainly was not acquired willingly).


except thats a terrible feat that will make him objectively bad as he goes up in levels(u need magic items)


is it really that terrible for a dragonfire adept, since i seem to have notice that he is not very item dependent at all…


The increased risk comes from the fact that you are essentially behaving like a dragon, except youre not one.

This is somewhat exactly how my dragonfire adept is behaving, though if you would mention to him that he is not a dragon, he would kill you. slowly. (he really is a bit of a bastard...)

[Ydaer Ca Noit]

Oh I wasn't talking about it being a feat, just a refluff

[Fouredged Sword]

I really like the idea of a scaling wealth hording ability list.

Here is my though. Set it up using the WBL chart, and give good, level appropriate bonuses when the horde crosses those thresholds. It should allow for some equipment at the expense of your horde. The bonuses should be mostly moral (as they are mostly in your characters mind) and make him or her more draconic.

The player can choose to stop accruing wealth in his horde to gather equipment, and there is no penalty for doing so, but the more wealth he stashes in his horde the better. The horde must be at least the value of your ECL-2 to or all bonuses are halved, round down. If the horde is reduced in value (even a single copper piece) the character halves the bonuses he receives and looses any bonuses from brackets he no longer qualifies for until spends 8 hours appreciating it. He will not regain the bonuses for higher brackets of wealth until he rebuilds his horde to those levels.

You cannot gain bonuses from your horde for a bracket greater than your ECL. Your horde can be composed of mundane items of value (art, gems, metals, coins) so long as the item has a listed value (or the DM sets a value), magic items of any kind, and

vow of hoarding - Prereqs, dragon or dragonblooded type or subtype

So lets go with this list
1st 200 gp - +1 moral bonus to appraise and sense motive
2nd 900 gp - +1 moral bonus to attack and damage rolls, +1 moral bonus to fortitude and will saves
3rd 2,700 gp - +2 moral bonus to charisma
4th 5,400 gp - +2 moral bonus to strength and constitution
5th 9,000 gp - Fill in here.
6th 13,000 gp
7th 19,000 gp
8th 27,000 gp
9th 36,000 gp
10th 49,000 gp
11th 66,000 gp
12th 88,000 gp
13th 110,000 gp
14th 150,000 gp
15th 200,000 gp
16th 260,000 gp
17th 340,000 gp
18th 440,000 gp
19th 580,000 gp
20th 760,000 gp - Immortal Horde - You remove all penalties to attributes from ageing and will not die of age so long as your horde maintains this level of wealth. You continue to age normally, gaining the bonuses, but not the penalties. Resurrection magic can be used to restore you to life using half the material costs so long as the material costs are drawn from your horde. A piece of your horde can be used as a piece of your body for resurrection magic. Your horde can store one crafted contingent spell to resurrect you on your death. The cost of crafting this spell is halved and delayed until you die, and is drawn from your horde. Any additional material components must also be drawn from your horde, and are deducted at the time of activation. You must still provide someone to craft the contingency with the appropriate feats and spells. After your horde is used to return you to life, it counts as having been reduced in value, and you cannot spend 8 hours to appreciate it until one week has passed.

I am really liking this idea, the more I build on it. I may post something in homebrew with a full list at some point.

[Raezeman]

The bonuses should be mostly moral (as they are mostly in your characters mind) and make him or her more draconic.


indeed, morale bonus is exactly what i was thinking. looking forward to your home-brew version. Thanks mate!

[zephyrkinetic]

I had a character who had a disease/disorder called Goldlust. He had class levels in Goldluster. There were multiple abilities involved (eventually, he could turn his beard to gold, and coat himself with a golden natural armor, sort of like the Silverbeard spell. He was Dwarven, so it made sense.) He could sense gold within a certain radius, could determine purity and value (sort of like Stonecunning) at a glance, and had to make increasingly difficult Will saves not to go rushing in for whatever gold was nearby. He got bonuses for using golden weapons or armor, and the loss of gold was detrimental to various checks (depending on the nature of the loss). I think he died because he refused to leave this giant golden chandelier behind in a dungeon, and was trapped in the impending cave-in. He had a buttload of money, though a lot of it was tied up in the armor and weapons; the bonuses and other abilities helped make up for the lack of magic items. The party got to keep everything that wasn't raw gold - platinum, magic items, he didn't care about. Oh, except for extradimensional items, for storing more gold. Honestly, he was one of my favorite characters.

If I find the notebook that had all the original stats in it, I'll post it up here, but I'd love to have a character take Vow of Hoarding - I'd make them roll against developing Goldlust. :smallbiggrin:

[Joe the Rat]

Boosts in power and draconicness (and avarice enhancing traits) for the growing hoard seem to be the right sort of theme. I think you can use the WBL to ballpark when things should increase - if you're expected to have +X gear at Y level, having most of your WBL for Y level as hoard should yield similar bonuses. I'm also a fan of geometric and logarithmic progressions for increasing bonuses: X gp gets you +1 in something, 10X = +2, 100X = +3, etc.

Something else to consider: Dragon hoards aren't carried, they're stashed. Your power is dependent on how much you "own" - on person and in your designated hoard. Having a secret treasure trove also gives you a lovely plot hook/ complication: if something gets stolen, your power declines - presumably you'd feel the loot go missing, Smaug-style. And you definitely won't let that affront go unanswered.

[Fouredged Sword]

So, for general ideas, I think the feat should provide the following by level 19 (with the level 20 immortal horde capstone).

Moral bonuses to strength - up to +6 - 12.5Kgp * 1.5 for non-standard type - 18.75Kgp
Moral bonuses to Constitution - Up to +6 -18.75Kgp
Moral bonuses to Charisma - Up to +6 -18.75Kgp
Moral bonuses to Attack and Damage - Up to +5 - 50Kgp, non standard bonus so maybe * 1.5 for 75Kgp
Magical Aura - All attacks from weapons you wield or your natural weapons count as magic. - Folded into the above (priced as a +5 weapon)
Levels of sorcerer spellcasting - Up to 4, will not increase higher than your HD, but if it would, grants +4 to your charisma for determine bonus spells per level not used. - Hard to price, I am putting it around 200Kgp
Natural armor bonus - Up to +5 -50Kgp

Total so far - Roughly 381.25

Can anyone suggest another 198.75Kgp worth of bonuses that can be added over 19 levels? Moral to skill bonuses could be added in (sense motive and appraise maybe), but they would have to he high bonuses to rack up value, and apprise is a fairly meh skill (though this type of character is likely to use it a lot).

I should really price these compared to magic items to ensure that it's worth approximately it's value in items. It should all total to 580Kgp

I think it's important to distinguish between the horde and the items the player uses to adventure. At low levels a horde can be a bag of coins or even a single item of value the character keeps at his side. At higher levels the horde would grow and likely become unwieldy to carry in such a manner (and any magic items used to carry the horde don't add TO the horde).

I think the best way to determine if something is in the horde or not falls under two conditions, one positive, one negative.

Everything in the horde MUST be displayed in a manner so that it can be viewed as a whole, not in piecemeal. Putting it in a bag of holding doesn't count as displayed, as you can't see into it and can only pull out one item at a time. A portable hole could work though.

Second, Everything in the horde MUST NOT be used for anything other than the horde value. Using an item removes it from the horde until you put it back, causing all the penalties associated with reducing the value of your horde. Any items used to actively or reactively protect the horde cannot be used IN the horde. A magic door that prevents entry wouldn't count as part of the horde. A magic trap to attack intruders wouldn't count as part of the horde. A lyre of building that was also used to build a vault for the horde WOULD count, as the lyre was used and THEN added to the horde and is no longer actively or reactively defending the horde.

[Fitz10019]

If you keep 2000gp in gold coins and sleep 8 hours on it, you get a +2 enchantment bonus to Strength for 24 hours. This is the same as spending the money on a magic item.
2000gp +2 [Gauntlet of Ogre Power]
16000gp +4 [Belt of Giant Strength +4]
36000gp +6 [Belt of Giant Strength +6]

It's not even worth a feat -- to me it sounds like a fun 'reward' for roleplaying. While other players worry about their magic items being dispelled or sundered, you'll worry about theft (and weight and volume).

[Raezeman]

how about save throw bonuses. Item worth are:
+1 --> 1000 gold
+2 --> 4000 gold
+3 --> 6000 gold
+4 --> 16000 gold
+5 --> 25000 gold

speed bonus, divided over land speed and flying speed also possible

And what about the addition of a breath weapon, or bonus damage on a already existing breath weapons, like the dragon spirit cincture (2000 gold)

and instead bonus on skill checks, skill focus on something of choose, or list of possibilities

[Fouredged Sword]

Fitz10019 - Having all those magic items become slotless, and unable to be removed from your person, and possibly altered from day to day (do you get to pick the bonuses you get each night, or are they set?) would totally be worth a feat for some characters. Stashing 50000gp and being able to declare your primary weapon magical would be worth it for some builds in of itself.

[Raezeman]

I think it's important to distinguish between the horde and the items the player uses to adventure. At low levels a horde can be a bag of coins or even a single item of value the character keeps at his side. At higher levels the horde would grow and likely become unwieldy to carry in such a manner (and any magic items used to carry the horde don't add TO the horde).

I think the best way to determine if something is in the horde or not falls under two conditions, one positive, one negative.

Everything in the horde MUST be displayed in a manner so that it can be viewed as a whole, not in piecemeal. Putting it in a bag of holding doesn't count as displayed, as you can't see into it and can only pull out one item at a time. A portable hole could work though.

Second, Everything in the horde MUST NOT be used for anything other than the horde value. Using an item removes it from the horde until you put it back, causing all the penalties associated with reducing the value of your horde. Any items used to actively or reactively protect the horde cannot be used IN the horde. A magic door that prevents entry wouldn't count as part of the horde. A magic trap to attack intruders wouldn't count as part of the horde. A lyre of building that was also used to build a vault for the horde WOULD count, as the lyre was used and THEN added to the horde and is no longer actively or reactively defending the horde.

I was thinking more in the line of:
the hoard can be stashed and hidden anywhere, but you only receive the bonuses if you sleep in your hoard the night before.
and the only items that count toward the wealth of the hoard are items such as gold and gems, items whose only function is being used for payment. you could keep some money separate from the hoard, so you can pay small amounts without halving the benefits (loved that idea of losing benefits when the hoard get's reduced)

[Fouredged Sword]

Well, dragon's can leave their hordes without diminished strength, and for very large hordes, it would be very hard to move from place to place without serious magical assistance. I like the idea of encouraging the player to set up a lair and to be cautious about it's security when they go adventuring. It sets up a decision for the character. Do they trust their security on their lair, or do they attempt to take their horde with them, knowing it may become lost.

The capstone I build into my feat encourages mobile hordes at low levels and stationary hordes at high level. The capstone would work best if the horde was located somewhere safe, so when you resurrect, you can be safe rather than right back in the situation you came from. Eventually the horde would become like a phylanctry, where the player would suddenly keel over and die of old age if too much is taken from it.

[kpumphre]

Probably to Late but if you could remake him as a Kinder that would be perfect.

[XmonkTad]

Well, since Vow of Poverty is such an underpowered feat and the whole point is to keep up with the power curve why not create GOLDMELDS? (Which I just came up with right now).

The basic idea is that having a certain amount (percentage of WBL or total gained or whatever) of gold in your horde gets you the benefits of an incarnate of your level (but only melds, essentia, and binds). People often talk about how incarnum complements VoP because it creates magic pseudo items that give some of the benefits of standard magic gear.

If there is a real incarnum user in the party, then incarnum feats, races and such don't work with goldmelds (this is to keep you from essentially going gestalt and overshadowing them).

As for fluff for this, maybe your horde is part of your soul now or something?

[Fouredged Sword]

I would be cautious to allow WBL to be traded for a mini-gestalt with such a getalt friendly and low level friendly class as Incarnate, even without class features. I would trade 200gp for a few melds from the whole list + essence to spend on it.

It would be overpowered at low levels, and wouldn't consume enough wealth to slow down a high level character while still giving them a large power boost.

[Dr. Cliché]

An amusing thought - what if each increment of wealth hoarded also gives a cumulative chance (e.g. 1% per month or somesuch) that an actual dragon will take interest in this horde?

So, if you amass a big enough horde, you might also find yourself having to defend it from Smaug. :smallwink:

[XmonkTad]

I would be cautious to allow WBL to be traded for a mini-gestalt with such a getalt friendly and low level friendly class as Incarnate, even without class features. I would trade 200gp for a few melds from the whole list + essence to spend on it.

It would be overpowered at low levels, and wouldn't consume enough wealth to slow down a high level character while still giving them a large power boost.


Soulborn progression then, but using the incarnate meld list?

[Fouredged Sword]

An amusing thought - what if each increment of wealth hoarded also gives a cumulative chance (e.g. 1% per month or somesuch) that an actual dragon will take interest in this horde?

So, if you amass a big enough horde, you might also find yourself having to defend it from Smaug. :smallwink:

An old Gold Dragon maxes out the Wealth Per Encounter at 80kGP. They have Triple Standard loot, so multiply that by 3. 320Kgp. That puts it at around a 16-17th WBL level horde.

At CR 20, it should be able to take a character at level 17, doubling it's horde. It would seem a tasty target from the dragon's point of view. I would prefer to let a DM choose when he plants his plot hooks, rather than dictate then with a roll of the dice.

[DarkSonic1337]

Since you are essentially taking a feat to not buy equipment, I suggest looking at one of the many Vow of Poverty FIXES as a starting point.

Rather than scaling your benefits by level, simply scale your benefits by the appropriate Wealth By Level, perhaps capped by ECL+2. I doubt you'd get that much but hey sometimes DMs don't stop characters from using creative ideas to far exceed WBL.

Your horde would consist of any items that has a listed value (or just raw currency). Worn items would not be included in your horde. I'd put each benefit of Vow of Hoarding at about 70% of the expected WBL. This way if you manage to keep your horde at your WBL you can actually spill into your next level's benefit list.

So basically you'd get benefits at:
700gp
1900gp
3800gp
6300gp
9100gp
ect, ect. I rounded up to the nearest 100gp for convenience.

[Perturbulent]

Based on what everyone has said...and my dire need to run with this idea. This is what I cooked up.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QgxLxEorR4EbepWDzKizN0xAGMbtMO2KU0BF29IUQbk/edit?usp=sharing

Edit: Prior to soulborn discussion anyhow

[Raezeman]

there is so much awesome stuff in here. I love the part about the will save to spend money and the fact that dragons could get interest in your hoard. That could also give some nice hooks to the adventure.

The goldmeld thing is a very interesting idea too actually. I believe me and my DM will have some interesting talks next time.

[Fouredged Sword]

I was going to post this on homebrew, but I decided to post here.

So, what I have roughly worked out is as follows

Spoiler for length
+1 Moral bonus to sense motive and Appraise, but only in relation to your horde at 1st and every odd level of advancement. (1, 3, 5.. 19)

+1 Moral bonus to Charisma at 2nd level and every 3rd level after that (2,5,8,11,14,17)

+1 moral bonus to attack and damage at 2nd level and every 4 levels after (2,6,10,14,18)

+1 moral bonus to Strength at 3rd level and every 3rd level after that
(3,6,9,12,15,18)

+1 moral bonus to natural armor at level 3, and every 4 levels after (3,7,11,15,19)

+1 moral bonus to Constitution at 4th level and every 3rd level after that
(4,7,10,13,16,19)

+ 1 level of sorcerer casting at 4th level, and every 4 levels after that. Any levels over your HD of sorcerer casting does not add a level of spellcasting, but instead increases your charisma by 4 when determining bonus spells per day. (4,8,12,16,20)

+1 moral bonus to all saves at 5th level, and every 3 levels after (5, 8, 11, 14, 17, 20)

At 10th level you get 2 claw (1d4 medium, 1d6 large, 1d8 huge) attacks and powerful build as as the Goliath racial trait.

At 20th level you gain Horde Immortality. You remove all penalties to attributes from ageing and will not die of age so long as your horde maintains this level of wealth. You continue to age normally, gaining the bonuses, but not the penalties. Resurrection magic can be used to restore you to life using half the material costs so long as the material costs are drawn from your horde. A piece of your horde can be used as a piece of your body for resurrection magic. Your horde can store one crafted contingent spell to resurrect you on your death. The cost of crafting this spell is halved and delayed until you die, and is drawn from your horde. Any additional material components must also be drawn from your horde, and are deducted at the time of activation. You must still provide someone to craft the contingency with the appropriate feats and spells. After your horde is used to return you to life, it counts as having been reduced in value, and you cannot spend 8 hours to appreciate it until one week has passed.

Total
+10 to sense motive and appraise, when dealing with your horde (buying selling, guarding, ect)
+6 to Cha, Str, and Con
+5 to attack and damage
+6 to saves
+5 to natural armor
+5 levels of sorcerer casting OR +20 to charisma for determining spells per day


It should work out pretty close to gp=gp with a slight advantage in numbers due to the cost of the feat and the risk of loosing the horde. You can still buy items, and I would recommend you do, as you will be better off with 1/2-1/4 of your wealth spent on items. This WILL relieve the need to buy stat boosting and save boosting gear and magic weapons or armor past a base level.

Horde restrictions.

The player can choose to stop accruing wealth in his horde to gather equipment, and there is no penalty for doing so, but the more wealth he stashes in his horde the better. The horde must be at least the value of your ECL-2 to or all bonuses are halved, round down. If the horde is reduced in value (even a single copper piece) the character halves the bonuses he receives and looses any bonuses from brackets he no longer qualifies for until spends 8 hours appreciating it. He will not regain the bonuses for higher brackets of wealth until he rebuilds his horde to those levels.

You cannot gain bonuses from your horde for a bracket greater than your ECL. Your horde can be composed of mundane items of value (art, gems, metals, coins) so long as the item has a listed value (or the DM sets a value), magic items of any kind, and

Again, the point isn't to replace the need for magic items, just the flat bonus items normally gained over the career of a hero. You will want a few choice magic items supplemented by the bonuses you get from having a horde.

[Malimar]

Probably to Late but if you could remake him as a Kinder that would be perfect.

Kender have no concept of wealth or personal possessions of any sort. They're pretty close to the opposite of this.

(In semi-related news, "there's a kender in the party" is the best argument I've ever heard for taking Vow of Poverty.)

[Fouredged Sword]

For a kender I would allow them to loose a % of their wealth into random places (oh I just put id down three miles back and picked up something interesting! A ROCK!), in return, they could pull a random item out of their pockets X times per day. I would let them roll their CR on the treasure table 3 times at the start of day and produce an object they rolled at any time they wish. Wands have 5 charges, and all items are misplaced at the end of the day.

In return they pay a feat and loose half their WBL.

[Nihilarian]

For a kender I would allow them to loose a % of their wealth into random places (oh I just put id down three miles back and picked up something interesting! A ROCK!), in return, they could pull a random item out of their pockets X times per day. I would let them roll their CR on the treasure table 3 times at the start of day and produce an object they rolled at any time they wish. Wands have 5 charges, and all items are misplaced at the end of the day.

In return they pay a feat and loose half their WBL.I know it's pathfinder, but a Pathfinder Chronicler can do something like that. Which, now that I think about, probably the best way to play a Kender without actually being forced to steal from your party members.

[Vertharrad]

My suggestion to you is to discard the vow of wording and just call the feat Greedy. Your not makinga vow your just...greedy.

[Dr. Cliché]

(In semi-related news, "there's a kender in the party" is the best argument I've ever heard for taking Vow of Poverty.)

I thought it was the best argument for finding a different party...


(Then returning to kill the kender and any party members still friendly towards it.)

[Raezeman]

My suggestion to you is to discard the vow of wording and just call the feat Greedy. Your not makinga vow your just...greedy.

nah, greedy sounds so plain. Lot's of people can be greedy, and that's just that. Now dedicating your life to the collection of as much treasure as possible, now that's hoarding!