Persistant spell question

[Azoth]

I was wondering two questions. The first, would Persistant Spell be worth a feat if instead of setting a spell's duration to 24hrs, it moved it to the next duration increment? (1Rnd=1rnd/lvl, 1rnd/lvl=1min/lvl, 1min/lvl=10min/lvl, 10min/lvl=1hr/lvl 1hr/lvl=24hr) The second being, what would a fair metamagic adjustment be for the modified duration increase?

[eggynack]

Probably not at the current adjustment. Maybe at some different one. +6 without mitigation is kinda a lot for what you get as is.

[D4rkh0rus]

I was wondering two questions. The first, would Persistant Spell be worth a feat if instead of setting a spell's duration to 24hrs, it moved it to the next duration increment? (1Rnd=1rnd/lvl, 1rnd/lvl=1min/lvl, 1min/lvl=10min/lvl, 10min/lvl=1hr/lvl 1hr/lvl=24hr) The second being, what would a fair metamagic adjustment be for the modified duration increase?

It would not be worth it... as most of the persistable stuff that matters is rd/lvl for obvious reasons...

my 2 copper.

[Callin]

+1 maybe +2 but no more than that. If you look at the swift versions of some spells its really falls into line. But yea not very worth it.

[Azoth]

I was thinking of around +3 myself. Extend already doubles the duration for only a +1. In most cases this is multiplying the duration by tenfold. I agree that it would not be +6, but I was thinking +3 or +4 is reasonable.

[eggynack]

I'd say +2, especially if there's no impact on 24 hour duration spells. One of the best parts of extend is being able to make 24 hour spells into crazy two day spells, and being able to make hours/level spells last all day. This doesn't do those things all that much better, and might do them worse. It does some things better, but I don't think it's enough better to justify a +3.

[Crake]

I'd say +2, especially if there's no impact on 24 hour duration spells. One of the best parts of extend is being able to make 24 hour spells into crazy two day spells, and being able to make hours/level spells last all day. This doesn't do those things all that much better, and might do them worse. It does some things better, but I don't think it's enough better to justify a +3.

What if instead of 1 hour/level increasing to a flat 24 hours, 1 hour/level increased to 24 hours/level. There are spells out there that have 24 hours/level duration after all, ironwood is the most memorable core example i can think of.

[eggynack]

What if instead of 1 hour/level increasing to a flat 24 hours, 1 hour/level increased to 24 hours/level. There are spells out there that have 24 hours/level duration after all, ironwood is the most memorable core example i can think of.
That'd be pretty wonky, but yeah, it'd likely justify a +3. You'd basically be getting all of those hours/level spells for free, except a few levels later. You can get pretty much the same effect with this as a +2 and combining it with extend though. 48 hours is a crazy break point for this kinda thing.

[Jeff the Green]

TuggyNE made this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249137) some time ago.

[TuggyNE]

TuggyNE made this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=249137) some time ago.

You beat me to posting that. :smallwink:

But yes, I think that homebrew is a superior option to regular Persistent Spell, being at once less costly without mitigation, and less obnoxiously powerful with.

[Phelix-Mu]

Nooo. Not 1 day/level! That makes it possible to get all your buffs up and have a full contingent of utility/combat spells loaded each day you plan to be doing stuff. The 48 hour thing is already problematic in my mind; eggy even mentioned how strong that can be. Day/level is madness, especially for some things that might be stackable (like Extended Persisted Elemental Swarm, if we accept that that were possible). You get your elementals out for 2hrs/level, a minimum of 34 hours, meaning you can get one whole day's worth of 9ths summoned and still have the next days 9ths for other stuff. This is a terrible spell as an example, but take it for granted that something much, much more exploitable is out there.

There is a spell from Dragon Magazine, elemental guardian, that summons a lesser elemental weird (also from Dragon Magazine) for 1 day/level, and binds it to an area. 4th druid/5th cleric/5th sorcere and wizard spell level. This gets stupid, as you can, given a fairly short period, bind dozens of these creatures to a fixed area. Of limited utility for offense, but it offers a huge defensive advantage whenever the characters know of a threat in advance, at minimal downtime cost.

[Azoth]

I had no intention of days/level. It capped at turning hr/lvl spells to a flat 24hr duration. So for example out of a 4th lvl slot a wizard would throw up Mage Armor and instead of lasting 7hrs (CL 7 minimum to cast 4th lvl spells (without shenanigans)) it would last 24hrs.

*I know that is not an optimum spell or example, but it is an example*

[TuggyNE]

Nooo. Not 1 day/level! That makes it possible to get all your buffs up and have a full contingent of utility/combat spells loaded each day you plan to be doing stuff. The 48 hour thing is already problematic in my mind; eggy even mentioned how strong that can be. Day/level is madness, especially for some things that might be stackable (like Extended Persisted Elemental Swarm, if we accept that that were possible). You get your elementals out for 2hrs/level, a minimum of 34 hours, meaning you can get one whole day's worth of 9ths summoned and still have the next days 9ths for other stuff. This is a terrible spell as an example, but take it for granted that something much, much more exploitable is out there.

There is a spell from Dragon Magazine, elemental guardian, that summons a lesser elemental weird (also from Dragon Magazine) for 1 day/level, and binds it to an area. 4th druid/5th cleric/5th sorcere and wizard spell level. This gets stupid, as you can, given a fairly short period, bind dozens of these creatures to a fixed area. Of limited utility for offense, but it offers a huge defensive advantage whenever the characters know of a threat in advance, at minimal downtime cost.

Response, so as not to clutter this thread.