Feat starved

[maniacalmojo]

Is it just me or is every non fighter class feat starved? Every topic/guide i have read recently has said the class if feat starved.

[OldTrees1]

Depends on the class, how low your standards for feats are and what level you start at.

For instance:
I like my warriors to have 10 feats (Three Mountain, Knockback, Knock-down, Combat Reflexes & Standstill). Without a racial bonus feat but with 2 flaws and with the bonus feat from Wolf Totem Barbarian, I would complete this feat collection at 18th level. However 2 levels of Fighter and 2 levels of Feat Rogue would cut this down to 6th level.

[eggynack]

Casters tend to not be so much, even if they want a lot of feats. Melee feats tend to be more of the chain and tax variety, while casters often run free with feats totally unencumbered by prerequisites. When a caster feat has a prerequisite, like with DMM persist, it's usually only going to be taken if the feat is great, and extend and persist are about as far from a feat tax as it gets. Feat starvation is usually a consequence of the massive number of amazing options out there, rather than because the character just can't reach competency with the number of feats they have.

[Spore]

Is it just me or is every non fighter class feat starved? Every topic/guide i have read recently has said the class if feat starved.

Well, a fighting class has to learn a "trick" via feat(s) while casters can "learn" a solution per spell slot.

This beomces increasingly silly with some spells from Pathfinder:

A Fighter needs 13 Int, decent Strength, Combat Expertise and Improved Trip to make Trips without attacks of opportunity

A Cleric needs to prepare the spell Chain of Perdition and receives a summoned nearly indestructible chain that can Trip based on Wisdom. Also this thing doesn't use up several actions for several maneuvers, can move and do OTHER maneuvers as well. Oh, and did I mention that the Cleric didn't have to invest a feat?

This is a 3rd level spell. Still, if an Cleric on 18 wants to control the battlefield, he casts the chains once and let's them do their work for 18 rounds. If an fighter wants to trip for 18 rounds, he has to spend his own actions (and still have the feats).

[Firechanter]

First of all, - imho - Classes are not feat starved, Builds are. I.e. some builds require more feats to make them come together, others need just a handful.

Secondly, Wizard builds usually aren't feat starved, because they get a bunch of bonus feats and typically are not that dependent on feats in the first place, what with about a thousand spells to choose from and stuff.

But yeah, a lot of character concepts require a number of feats that practically forces you to pick up extra slots, be it by way of multiclassing, flaws or other rules options.

[Rubik]

I looked through every book I have, as well as everything on the Pathfinder SRD, to fill out one build I've got which has nearly 900 feats available. Even with over a hundred copies of certain feats, such as Extra Music, Font of Inspiration, and so on, I'm still nowhere near to filling them all out, because most feats suck. Lots of 3.X feats suck, and every Pathfinder feat that isn't magically-related that I found sucks even worse.

Seriously, if I ever played Pathfinder again and couldn't play a caster, I wouldn't even bother choosing feats they suck so badly.

[OldTrees1]

Lots of 3.X feats suck, and every Pathfinder feat that isn't magically-related that I found sucks even worse.

Very well summarized.

[Rubik]

Very well summarized.Seriously, I didn't find a single Pathfinder muggle feat worth taking. Not one! I wasn't kidding when I said I'd rather not bother even taking them. They'd just be taking up valuable spreadsheet space.

[OldTrees1]

Seriously, I didn't find a single Pathfinder muggle feat worth taking. Not one! I wasn't kidding when I said I'd rather not bother even taking them. They'd just be taking up valuable spreadsheet space.

Cornugon Smash (Combat) is worthwhile I think. Demoralize as free action after each power attack hit.

However I did not find any beyond that.

[Rubik]

Cornugon Smash (Combat) is worthwhile I think. Demoralize as free action after each power attack hit.

However I did not find any beyond that.Maybe. A chance to enforce a -2 penalty to a few things is alright, I guess, since you don't have anything but Improved Initiative to spend feats on. Absolutely nothing compared to any of the better 3.0 and 3.5 feats, though.

[Valtu]

I think this thread is duplicated:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330234

At least the first post. Looks like it got double-posted somehow and then people replied to each split separately. Is that fixable? Not a huge deal, just weird :smalltongue:

[Zweisteine]

Actually, fighters are the most feat starved of all classes.
No seriously; who wants fighter bonus feats? A fighter?


But in all seriousness, classes builds are generally only feat starved when you want to go into more than two (or even one) PrC, and especially when the prerequisite feats suck (wanna be a Swiftblade, anyone who isn't a fighter?).

Or if you want to do two-weapon fighting without being a fighter, ranger, or similarly suitable (i.e. gets TWF free) class. Then you're feat-starved no matter what.

[Rubik]

I think this thread is duplicated:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330234

At least the first post. Looks like it got double-posted somehow and then people replied to each split separately. Is that fixable? Not a huge deal, just weird :smalltongue:I reported it for deletion when it was still blank past the first post. It should be blended with this one summarily.

[OldTrees1]

Maybe. A chance to enforce a -2 penalty to a few things is alright, I guess, since you don't have anything but Improved Initiative to spend feats on. Absolutely nothing compared to any of the better 3.0 and 3.5 feats, though.

*Blink* *Blink* *Doh!* I forgot that Pathfinder doesn't have the support for demoralizing that 3.5 does. Here I was thinking it could cause Cowering.