Practically Permanent change to size as a swift or free action

[GhengisConrad]

That's why they call me Slim Shady

~I'm BACK!~

anyways,

Considering a Dark Whisper Gnome build, but hate role-playing a size category smaller than everyone. Its a HiPs build, so small is often preferable, and in my head I love the idea of a guy running up all small and hidden, and then popping up a size category and attacking from the shadows.

What would be some ways to change size as a free or swift action?

Preferably NOT with items, and also preferably in a way where my use is not limited too greatly. So like, 3 times per day; not enough uses.

[OldTrees1]

Expansion (psionic power) gives you
1 round/level
# power points times/day

[nedz]

Quickened Enlarge Person, it doesn't matter that this spell has a 1 round cast.

[HunterOfJello]

You can do it with the Expansion power, but it costs a lot of power points to use it as a swift action. It only costs 3 power points to use it and have it last 10 minutes/ level though.

[Darrin]

Stoneblessed + Barbarian + Goliath Mountain Rage makes you large while raging. Entering rage is essentially a free action, but if you want to do it on someone else's turn, you can take Immediate Rage as a feat.

[Fax Celestis]

Stoneblessed + Barbarian + Goliath Mountain Rage makes you large while raging. Entering rage is essentially a free action, but if you want to do it on someone else's turn, you can take Immediate Rage as a feat.

Alternatively, see if your DM will let you use Ferocity instead of Rage and let Mountain Rage turn into Mountain Ferocity.

[GhengisConrad]

Quickened Enlarge Person, it doesn't matter that this spell has a 1 round cast.

I've really never been a caster, so some really noob clarifications.

When it says "A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level." does that mean that a 1st level spell like 'enlarge person' would become a level 5 spell, meaning, that, as a wizard I can cast it once per day at 9th level?!

Those fairies in sleeping beauty sure made it look easy when they did it!

Howabout another approach,

any playable monsters with this size shifting ability 'non-stop'?

I don't like the idea of 'sweating' whether or not I 'use up' my size change.

Especially when its from small to medium.

[GhengisConrad]

I've got Cabinet Trickster that can do it in 5 levels! It'd be move equivalent with a feat, but I can live with that.

I guess the more I think about it, I'd rather have it at will than as a free action.

[OldTrees1]

I've really never been a caster, so some really noob clarifications.

When it says "A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level." does that mean that a 1st level spell like 'enlarge person' would become a level 5 spell, meaning, that, as a wizard I can cast it once per day at 9th level?!


Yes it does take a 5th level slot.



This is the most efficient method I know for adding the ability to your gnome:
Psychic Warrior 3 with Wis 14 and Psionic Talent x2 as the 2 bonus psionic feats gets to use Expansion as a Standard action 11 times per day for 3 rounds at a time. By expending 3 uses at a time it lasts for 10 minutes instead.

11 times per day should cover your 16hr adventuring day
3 rounds at a time should cover most of each combat (with some exceptions using the 10 minute version instead)



Cabinet Trickster requires you be a Changeling (not a gnome). If you are medium sized normally then one of the two reduce person rings (Savage Species or Lords of Madness) would be cheaper than 5 levels of Cabinet Trickster IIRC.

[Alent]

I've really never been a caster, so some really noob clarifications.

When it says "A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level." does that mean that a 1st level spell like 'enlarge person' would become a level 5 spell, meaning, that, as a wizard I can cast it once per day at 9th level?!

This is what lesser rods of quicken spell are for.

Alter self would also fit the bill as far as size goes, with a better duration, but temporarily deprive you of some of your racial traits.

[OldTrees1]

This is what lesser rods of quicken spell are for.


Yeah,
1) Item dependant
2) Limited uses per day per rod
3) 35K gp per rod

[Alent]

Yeah,
1) Item dependant
2) Limited uses per day per rod
3) 35K gp per rod

I was aware 1 and 2 are against his requirements, but there's no harm in pointing out that there's an alternative to burning a 5th level slot to cast a first level spell, especially when 3x uses is more than 1x use.

Cost is stupid, for what little it does.

[OldTrees1]

I was aware 1 and 2 are against his requirements, but there's no harm in pointing out that there's an alternative to burning a 5th level slot to cast a first level spell, especially when 3x uses is more than 1x use.

Cost is stupid, for what little it does.

It was good to mention it for completeness.

[GhengisConrad]

Actually considering Lycanthropy at this point.

[OldTrees1]

Actually considering Lycanthropy at this point.

Werewolf: +2LA - +3LA, 2RHD, Str +2, Dex +4, Con +4, Wis +2

[GhengisConrad]

Thinking of like, wereviper on a medium creature... or something.

You know my line of thinking is always a bit roundabout.

[NotScaryBats]

You could be a cleric with the Gluttony Domain.
http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/domain.pl?domain=Gluttony

Course, that's limited by your cleric levels, but if you toggle it, it could stretch a bit...

[OldTrees1]

The Ring of Reduction[Lords of Madness] costs 20K gp.

[GhengisConrad]

You could be a cleric with the Gluttony Domain.
http://www.realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/domain.pl?domain=Gluttony

Course, that's limited by your cleric levels, but if you toggle it, it could stretch a bit...

toggle it?


The Ring of Reduction[Lords of Madness] costs 20K gp.

Yeah, definitley. A way to go is the half-minotaur route, and then return to the smalls for hide bonus. That could be cool.

Same idea, just in reverse.

[NotScaryBats]

It's 1 rd/lvl, but you could, at lvl 5, do 5 rounds of grow and shrink a day. Hence, toggle.

[OldTrees1]

Yeah, definitley. A way to go is the half-minotaur route, and then return to the smalls for hide bonus. That could be cool.

Same idea, just in reverse.
If you do use it then make sure you use it for more than 5 9-minute periods. Otherwise a couple 1/day 9 minute rings in Savage Species are cheaper.

[Big Fau]

Putting the Sizing quality on an Amulet of Natural Attacks can do what you want if you dip Monk 1.

[Saintheart]

Wand of Enlarge Person, Quickened and Sanctum Spell, ought to do it. Spell + Quicken makes it an effective fifth level spell, but Sanctum Spell brings it back down to fourth, which makes it available for wand use. Per Rules Compendium, using a wand where its containing spell is a swift action is itself a swift action.

[eggynack]

Does wild shape count? Hit level eight for large forms, and you're able to be large all day. You're also a bear of some variety, granted, but honestly, that doesn't feel like a bad thing. As for doing it as a swift action, the mantle of the beast (CC, 140) is a thing, and a good thing at that.

[OldTrees1]

Does wild shape count? Hit level eight for large forms, and you're able to be large all day. You're also a bear of some variety, granted, but honestly, that doesn't feel like a bad thing. As for doing it as a swift action, the mantle of the beast (CC, 140) is a thing, and a good thing at that.

OP wants to toggle between Small and Medium.

However Halfling can do this with wildshape at 8th level

Undersized Wild Shape (Su): The halflings small size limits his wild shape ability, reducing them by one size category. However, he can use his wild shape one extra time per day.

[eggynack]

OP wants to toggle between Small and Medium.

Doesn't seem like much of a problem. Both small and medium are also forms that can be acquired through wild shape, if you so choose. Halfling substitution levels just grant faster access to tiny.

[OldTrees1]

Doesn't seem like much of a problem. Both small and medium are also forms that can be acquired through wild shape, if you so choose. Halfling substitution levels just grant faster access to tiny.

So they can. I should have checked first.

[GhengisConrad]

isn't there some variation on wild shape that lets you do people?

[eggynack]

isn't there some variation on wild shape that lets you do people?
Indeed, though the best way isn't really available to a dark whisper gnome. The easiest way is fangshields druid substitution levels (CV, 40), which adds humanoid forms for a wild shape use/day at 7th level. Unfortunately, it's non-humanoid only, which is the cause of the problems. Other ways include master of many forms (CAdv, 58) which grants humanoid forms on its first level, and dragon wild shape, which grants access to a few dragon forms (deep, all lung dragons, silver, and steel at least), though that comes online at 12th level. I'm not currently aware of any other methods.

[GhengisConrad]

For once in my life, I'm actually prioritizing role-playing above 'power gaming'.... but I think somehow I keep circling the same drain!

how about...

feral dark whisper gnome fang-shield druid?

[OldTrees1]

For once in my life, I'm actually prioritizing role-playing above 'power gaming'.... but I think somehow I keep circling the same drain!

how about...

feral dark whisper gnome fang-shield druid?

I think the limited uses per day is going to hit pretty hard.

I think the Wererat _Medium Race_ might be much more efficient and is at will.

[GhengisConrad]

would say, a Dark Human in animal form of lycanthropy be a dark version of said animal...?

new thread

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=330492

[eggynack]

how about...

feral dark whisper gnome fang-shield druid?
Feral makes you a monstrous humanoid, which is a non-humanoid, and nothing else changes you back, so sure, I guess. I mean, all that LA isn't exactly healthy, but it'll get you access to medium humanoid forms and all that other stuff you desire. I personally tend towards something like dragonborn anthropomorphic bat as the base for fangshields, or, if you're of the opinion that dragonborn changes type to humanoid (I am not), then just anthro bat. This is also nice though.

[Vaz]

A Wilder can get Expansion and Compression. From... 4th level, I think, they can go from Diminutive to Large size in a round. Combined with the rest of the Psionics Time manipulation and it's doable quite well.