AC for a given level (3.5)?

[Qwertystop]

I remember seeing all over the place that while early-on, AC can be a reasonable defense, by mid- to late-levels it won't make a difference unless you invest a lot into it. What are some good "block this or don't bother" numbers for, say, levels 5, 10, 15, and 20?

(asking because I'm making an Ozodrin at the moment - getting AC bonuses doesn't come online for a while, and they don't have armor proficiency, so my AC comes from Dex (fourth priority) and magic items (pricy, especially if you're going for Deflection to avoid weak flat-footed and touch ACs). My other defensive options basically come down to buying miss chances, Intimidate, and grappling, so I want to know whether it's worth buying myself past AC 12.

[Techwarrior]

I believe it's something like 10 + 2(CR) as what you should aim for. I believe the average to hit follows three different progressions in three different level sections, but that's the average of the three IIRC. That's what we use anyway and it works fine.

I'll go look it up.

Edit: this (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?229092-Lots-of-statistics-from-the-Monster-Manual) suggests level +15 as your target. I think the 2x CR was something i read suggesting a maximum.

[Zweisteine]

I believe that I once read that 8+level was a minimum useful AC, an something like 13+level was As high as you should reasonably need.

[Snowbluff]

10+(1.5*ECL) is what I go for.

[Techwarrior]

10+(1.5*ECL) is what I go for.

Ah, right. Yes. That's the formula I saw for what to aim for as an AC value. 10 + (2*ECL) was the maximum useful value, and 10 + ECL is supposed to be the minimum to prevent massive Power Attack shenanigans being visited on you constantly.

[Vogonjeltz]

Off hand I'd say the ability to hit 30 AC by 6th level should reduce any chance of being hit to the minimum (5%) for CR appropriate enemies.

10 base, so we need to pick up 20, +10 for +1 plate with dodge, +5 for a +1 tower shield, and combat expertise can net another 5.

[Techwarrior]

Off hand I'd say the ability to hit 30 AC by 6th level should reduce any chance of being hit to the minimum (5%) for CR appropriate enemies.

10 base, so we need to pick up 20, +10 for +1 plate with dodge, +5 for a +1 tower shield, and combat expertise can net another 5.

The thing is, under most circumstances you don't want to reduce your opponents to hit to the minimum. It tends to cause the DM to compensate and leads to your other, less AC heavy, party members getting squashed (poor little Rogue buddy).

Oh, and that's another thing. Buying no AC can wind up getting you some hefty Power Attacks coming your way. If the dragon doesn't need to bother trying to hit your AC, you better believe that all of that BAB is about to be Power Attack'ed away. That's why just attempting to get some AC can still be incredibly relevant, even if you're stacking miss chances and the like. If you make it so that they still hit you most of the time, but can't Power Attack anymore, that's a nice thing for you.

[Vogonjeltz]

The thing is, under most circumstances you don't want to reduce your opponents to hit to the minimum. It tends to cause the DM to compensate and leads to your other, less AC heavy, party members getting squashed (poor little Rogue buddy).

Oh, and that's another thing. Buying no AC can wind up getting you some hefty Power Attacks coming your way. If the dragon doesn't need to bother trying to hit your AC, you better believe that all of that BAB is about to be Power Attack'ed away. That's why just attempting to get some AC can still be incredibly relevant, even if you're stacking miss chances and the like. If you make it so that they still hit you most of the time, but can't Power Attack anymore, that's a nice thing for you.

If I recall correctly, there's a feat called Elusive that negates Power Attacks on the user, so if the DM actually has their minions power attack, that would be useful.

Never had a DM use power attacks though

[Techwarrior]

If I recall correctly, there's a feat called Elusive that negates Power Attacks on the user, so if the DM actually has their minions power attack, that would be useful.

Elusive Target is a three feat chain that prevents Power Attack against a target (your Dodge target). If you find three feats easier than some WBL, so be it.


Never had a DM use power attacks though

Conversely, I've never had one not use them. Plenty of monsters even have stat blocks assuming a certain amount of Power Attack.

[Zanos]

Enemies power attack harder at lower AC targets always seemed pretty meta-gamey to me. I have actually had DM's, in combat, ask "So what's your AC?", pause for a couple seconds, and then say "Okay, he power attacks you for X amount."

I wasn't aware that enemies had a "magically read AC" ability. I guess you could argue that lightly armored targets get PA'd for more, but with magic items and dex mod representing a large amount of AC whether a target is wearing full-plate or gnome twist cloth doesn't seem to matter that much.

[Techwarrior]

Round 2 is a wonderful thing. If the PCs can zero in an AC, so can (semi) intelligent creatures on the DM side.

A DM who magically knows he can Power Attack for -7 freely is one thing. A DM whose Stone Giant Warblade starts with a Power Attack of -2 the round he charges, and upon rolling a 3 and hitting, Power Attacks for full next round is not meta-gaming. My games (ran and played) have almost all been the latter.

[Vogonjeltz]

Elusive only requires dodge and mobility, both of which are useful if the rogue is getting flanked by multiple power attackers.

[Person_Man]

Note that there's a metagame factor regarding what your AC should be as well.

I've found that if you make your AC neigh unhitable (ie, most of the time you only get hit on natural 20 from mundane attacks) then the DM is a lot more likely to use spells and effects which bypass or do not target AC.

So I've found that it's best to aim for good but not crazy defenses, typically in the ballpark of 15ish + class level, Constitution should be your second highest attribute, don't dump Dex or Wis, buy or get a buff to Saves somehow, and then add in a minor displacement/miss chance effect (20%) effect of some kind around ECL 10ish. This way you're not hit very often, but you're hit often enough that you don't draw attention to yourself for being unhitable, and when you are hit you can typically absorb the damage or effects without major issue.