Character Help

[Disrecollection]

Recently I have been playing DnD 3.5 with a group of friends. After playing the last session, it came to everyone's attention that my character was quite over-powered when compared to the rest of the party. I played a Wiz1/Psion3/Cerebremancer4, with Telepath and Diviner specialties. It is also useful to note that my character was of the neutral evil alignment, was Elan, and had at this point an int score of 20. My character's personality was very vicious and greedy, and was cause a schism within the party.

After reviewing my character for some time, the DM, other players, and I decided that we would retire my character from PC status. My character will now be an NPC who continues to influence events from the shadows, but I am in need of a new character. I have never played a class which was not full caster, and this is really my first time with a dedicated group of gamers. So I am asking the Giant in the Playground forums to help me out for personality, character build, and most importantly tips on how not to be a terrible power gamer.

My current party consists of:
An Aasimar Bard, who is exceptionally good at diplomacy and bluff, as well as using Snowflake Wardance Two Weapon Fighting.
A Dvati Spellthief/Battle Sorceror/Unseen Seer with Master Spellthief
A DMPC Hobgoblin Barbarian/Runescarred with Animal Devotion.

What do I do?

[Larkas]

Hmmmm, I think that something with both high floor and lower-ish ceiling would be right up your alley. Why not try something like a Warblade, a Psychic Warrior/Tashalatora Monk, a Duskblade, a (PF) Magus or even a Factotum? You won't feel hopelessly without options as if you took something more mundane, but won't overshadow anyone without some effort.

Personality will depend mostly on which role you want to take. If playing a buff guy (like a Warblade, for instance), you could be a "I'm a hero!" type of guy, always doing flashy stuff and actively trying to help people. If playing some more contemplative character (Psychic Warrior, for example), you could strive for self-perfection almost obsessively. These are all just examples, of course, but showcase a few personalities that won't clash with the party - at least not directly.

As to not be a power gamer... Just make sure to double-check that anything you're doing isn't spoiling someone's fun, be they other players or the DM. I suspect people were being bothered more by your character's personality than by its capabilities.

[Callin]

You could just change his personality to better fit in with the group. Barring that you said you like full casters but dont want to overshadow the party. You could go God Wizard and just buff the heck outta the PCs. Go for Warweaver in Heros of Battle to save on spell slots. Maybe toss on some Binder or the Binder Feats and with Flaws you could access Anima Mage early as heck take that to lvl 5 for a 1/day persist and then go into Warweaver so you can persist 1 buff all day long. Then towards the end of that you can save the buffs in the weave that you dont persist and then BAM all the buffs can be cast at once with little action loss from you.

After all of that work on casting Battlefield Control or Debuffs.

I had a killer debuffer once with an Archivist gaining spells from the Spellcaster list so I could get Sorc/Wiz spells as well as all divine. I also used the Power Point variant with the Vitality variant tacked on and could as a swift (i think ) action i could regain 2/3rds of my PP back by removing my Fatigue with some Paladin spell. (Its been a long time since i played this guy) but he basically debuffed mobs down to nothing easily and had a few small buffs for the party. I miss playing him lol.

[Fable Wright]

What do I do?
Perhaps play a straight Beguiler, Dread Necromancer (without minionmancy), Warmage, or Factotum (without Font of Inspiration)? Sticking to one set of class abilities that were tested together, without mixing them in with all the other splats, means your power level is relatively in line with what the game designers were expecting, and all of them (save perhaps for the Warmage) are roughly on par with the rest of your party in terms of abilities. My group once had a similar problem one one player brought an optimized Wizard into our previously (unintentionally) tier 3 game, solving encounters in one or two spells each and sucking the fun out of combat. After our group talked about it and he switched class to Beguiler, we didn't have that problem anymore.

[KnotKnormal]

Ok as far as not being a power gamer, try to play stuff you aren't comfortable with. So for you, play melee characters. Also pick combos that seem fun and interesting rather then min maxing. A good way to do this is focusing more on the flavor text of the feats and abilities and not the stats. A good example is the last game I ran one of my player played a half orc druid/cleric. he wanted his character to mislead the opponents, "oh its just an orc, keep distance and blast from back... did he just summon an army?" As far as power goes he could have made a much better character, but there was rarely a time when he didn't do something amazing with the abilities he had.

I would honestly suggest playing a Human Barbarian/Fighter. But dont build him entirely for combat. Stat Priority should be Str-Int-Con-Wis-Dex-Cha. This character is a very intelligent person but people judge him based on his looks and he doesn't want to insult them by showing that he is smarter. his weapon of choice is anything he can pick up and throw at something else, he then picks up both dead things and throws them again. this includes stones, small animals, large animals, people, small wagons, large wagons, boulders, telephone poles, and the occasional wall. Although he finds magic fascinating and cool, he does not understand the how it works, and often find himself trying to use math and physics to explain it.

I'll let you continue building him. Keep him simple though, you want him powerful but not so much that the rest of his personality is left in the shadow.

good luck.

[Disrecollection]

@Larkus: Thanks! I am probably more comfortable with the Psy-Warrior than Warblade or other things. Thanks for the advice on character personality, my character was kind of a Power Gamer.

@Callin: I think that I am going to retire from full casters for the time, as it seems I cannot resist the temptation to start overshadowing the part with all those spells at my fingertips.

@DMofDarkness: The problem I see with a Beguiler as that it seems that both the Face and Thief types will be covered by the Unseen Seer and Bard of the party. I would play an Assassin if everyone wasn't already being sneaky I think. As for Dread Necromancer: It looks interesting, but the Hobgob doesn't like the undead. Factotum is a very nice class, and I have no experience with Warmage although it sounds cool.

@KnotKnormal: I think I will be going for a Gish type build, and I will definitely be focusing more on the RP and Style rather than optimization.

[Callin]

How about a fantasy version of a scientist who would rather use his brain than the technology and stuff since he believes more in his capabilities than some finagled machine.

Aka a skillmonkey like a Factotem who has some magical abilities but would rather use his brain than the magic because he trusts his abilities more. He still uses magic but would use em outside of the box and not rely upon them to figure out things or to bypass skills. Fly?? Why?? I didnt spend a summer climbing the Windy Mountains for nothing? Scry?? Pffft I prefer to see and hear with my own senses. Ect. Very Neutral bent to his alignment. Still use a little magic here. A sword swing there. Traps would be awesome as well since its something you created and not with magic... Ohhhh what the heck is that one prc. Trapsmith?? Its in Dungeonscape i think. The one with the better traps. Not the one in Complete Champion i think.

Thats a class and a personality. And by golly I wanna play that now.

Edit- give him a british sounding name hahaha

[Particle_Man]

You could try a straight Paladin or Soulborn (LG or CG). First because it is unlikely that you would overshadow anyone. Second because the good alignment would make you more helpful to the party. I think that there is an elf racial CG soulborn (and possibly and elf paladin) substitution level that lets you smite with ranged attacks, so that give you options for either meelee or ranged combat.

[Fable Wright]

@DMofDarkness: The problem I see with a Beguiler as that it seems that both the Face and Thief types will be covered by the Unseen Seer and Bard of the party. I would play an Assassin if everyone wasn't already being sneaky I think. As for Dread Necromancer: It looks interesting, but the Hobgob doesn't like the undead. Factotum is a very nice class, and I have no experience with Warmage although it sounds cool.

Given your party composition, Dread Necromancer may be the best fit. My recommendation would be to go along with the Hobgoblin's requests and not make any undead; DNs do just fine as battlefield control/debuffers. With Black Tentacles, Fire in the Blood, and more debuffs than you can shake a stick at, they could make a fine addition to your group.

You could also turn the Dread Necromancer into a fairly decent melee character as well, if you wanted to.
Be a Naenhoon Illumian, take Consumptive Field as your 8th level Advanced Learning, buy a Monk's Belt, and take Extend Spell and Persist Spell as two of your feats. You can now make a Persistent Consumptive Field. (Extend this when available.) Whenever a party member brings someone to negatives < 10, they die with no save (as Unconscious creatures are always Willing) and you get 1d8 temporary HP and +2 stacking Strength that last the duration of the Consumptive Field. After a few encounters, when your high level slots are burned out, you can wade into melee with your companions and punch people with your Touch spells. (They can be delivered via Unarmed Strike. This is what the Monk's Belt is for.) You get a chance to apply the otherwise barely-used class features of the Dread Necromancer while doing so (like the Fear Aura, Scabrous and Charnel Touch, etc.) and are buoyed by the temp HP of Consumptive Field, DR of the class, and bonus strength. It's not likely to be enough to get everyone else to call 'OP' again (unless you grab Arcane Disciple (Competition) and Persist Divine Power) as you need time to charge up, and the damage probably isn't impressive compared to everyone else. You just add Bestow Curse and Blindness to your hits. (Also things like Demon Fever.)

[shylocke]

You made a character that excels at mindrape and chose to be evil. How could that not cause problems

[Disrecollection]

Hey everyone, thank you all(with the exception of shylocke) for helping me out with the choice of new character class(With the exception of shylocke, who stated an obvious but very helpful and critical point.) I have decided to be come a Psychic Warrior, although I kind of want to be a Dread Necromancer. My build by level is as follows. Ranger1/PsiWar5/Slayer2. My DM has been so kind as to allow the Slayer's favored enemy to match the Ranger's. I expect with a new character of LN alignment who follows his own personal code quite strictly, there should be less strife. I am using the Wildshape Ranger Variant, Soulbound Weapon ACF, and Speed of Thought + Boots of Skating to create a very scary scimitar wielding Mercenary who happen to possess a base land speed of 65. It should make for some very interesting sessions. I may be posting a journal of this RP, which will be an experience in of itself. Thank you again for your support playground, and I look forward/hope to see you soon.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I would honestly suggest playing a Human Barbarian/Fighter. But dont build him entirely for combat.
Given that the other group members appear to be using fairly solid mid-op, don't do this. It's a cool, flavorful idea, but being unable to mechanically contribute to the game can be just as bad for your fun as being too good. You need to be on the same optimization level as your partymates-- not above, and not below.

Also, it sounds like it may have been your character's personality that was a problem as much as his build. Watch that one.

Incidentally, why Wildshape Ranger + Soulbound Weapon? Are you going for an ape form or something?... actually, is that even relevant, since you're only dipping for a level? Or is your DM letting you progress Wildshape through Slayer?

[shylocke]

Hey everyone, thank you all(with the exception of shylocke) for helping me out with the choice of new character class(With the exception of shylocke, who stated an obvious but very helpful and critical point.) I have decided to be come a Psychic Warrior, although I kind of want to be a Dread Necromancer. My build by level is as follows. Ranger1/PsiWar5/Slayer2. My DM has been so kind as to allow the Slayer's favored enemy to match the Ranger's. I expect with a new character of LN alignment who follows his own personal code quite strictly, there should be less strife. I am using the Wildshape Ranger Variant, Soulbound Weapon ACF, and Speed of Thought + Boots of Skating to create a very scary scimitar wielding Mercenary who happen to possess a base land speed of 65. It should make for some very interesting sessions. I may be posting a journal of this RP, which will be an experience in of itself. Thank you again for your support playground, and I look forward/hope to see you soon.

booyah! Plus one on my useless-o-meter!

[Larkas]

@Disrecollection: Glad to be of help! Let us know how things work out for you :smallsmile:

[Disrecollection]

Okay, I have done a couple of sessions since creating my new character, and things are working out okay. He is developing his own personality and dynamic with the group, and the story has continued more or less uninterrupted. Thank you all again for the help, it was and is very much appreciated. Happy Gaming Everyone.