My Suspension of Disbelief is Gone

[Ridureyu]

Bloodfeast the Extreminator is way too big for an Allosaurus. If we can't demand absolute realism in our web comics, then what source do we have for ethics and morality? No. Now that there has been one potential paleontological inaccuracy in the comic, I can no longer believe in anything anymore. This comic is dead to me now. Democracy has failed. The world, alas, has ended.

[Doug Lampert]

Bloodfeast the Extreminator is way too big for an Allosaurus. If we can't demand absolute realism in our web comics, then what source do we have for ethics and morality? No. Now that there has been one potential paleontological inaccuracy in the comic, I can no longer believe in anything anymore. This comic is dead to me now. Democracy has failed. The world, alas, has ended.

Nonsence! Bloodfeast the Extreminator is CURRENTLY a small lizard and thus I completely refute your argument! He isn't too BIG for an Allosaurus, he's too small! Rich's paleontological inaccuracy in allosaur size is the opposite of what you claim. I can't believe in you anymore. All comics are dead to me now. Freedom is a lie. The world will be exposed to even more reality TV.

[Vinyadan]

Bloodfeast the Extreminator is way too big for an Allosaurus. If we can't demand absolute realism in our web comics, then what source do we have for ethics and morality? No. Now that there has been one potential paleontological inaccuracy in the comic, I can no longer believe in anything anymore. This comic is dead to me now. Democracy has failed. The world, alas, has ended.

Nah, it's people who are very small. A wizard did it.

[Ridureyu]

On a related note, if you go to Toys R Us, you can buy an Allosaurus of roughly the same coloration/stripe patterns as Bloodfeast. Coincidence... or CONSPIRACY?

[Keltest]

maybe its an AIIosaurus, as in a- capital i-capital i.

[SavageWombat]

I'm sorry, has Bloodfeast been actually measured at some point in this strip? Or are you just making assumptions of his presumed size?

[martianmister]

It's not the first time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0280.html)that Rich failed at sizing. It's something he's not good.

[Vinyadan]

It's not the first time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0280.html)that Rich failed at sizing. It's something he's not good.

Are you talking aboot tiny Durkon or big boot?

[Ridureyu]

I'm sorry, has Bloodfeast been actually measured at some point in this strip? Or are you just making assumptions of his presumed size?

If by "making assumptions" you mean "comparing his size to the cast (four of whom are the size of normal humans) and then to a size chart," I guess it counts as making assumptions.

Now... are you actually analyzing the fonts used on this forum, or are you only making assumptions about everybody's posts? :smallbiggrin:

[Doug Lampert]

If by "making assumptions" you mean "comparing his size to the cast (four of whom are the size of normal humans) and then to a size chart," I guess it counts as making assumptions.

Vinyadan already covered that way back in the third post way back 24 minutes ago. Really, does he have to repeat everything or can we just take obvious arguments as having been made already.


Nah, it's people who are very small. A wizard did it.

[SavageWombat]

If by "making assumptions" you mean "comparing his size to the cast (four of whom are the size of normal humans) and then to a size chart," I guess it counts as making assumptions.

Now... are you actually analyzing the fonts used on this forum, or are you only making assumptions about everybody's posts? :smallbiggrin:

How do you know it's not a perspective error? Every time?

[martianmister]

Are you talking aboot tiny Durkon or big boot?

What do you think? :smallannoyed:

[DeliaP]

How do you know it's not a perspective error? Every time?

Now which is more likely:

- that the Giant would make such an horrendous error in the size of what is clearly intended to be break-out character of the next book (probably the subject of the next prequel);

- or in fact the party has been subject to a massive spatial distortion field in the vicinity of the rift, causing Bloodfeast and the Order (and anyone else who has come too near the rift) to now be shifting in size in a random manner.

Personally I think the Giant is far to good a writer to offer the first explanation even a shred of credibility. It must be an effect of the rift.

[The Pilgrim]

Now which is more likely:

That this thread will get locked.

[Loreweaver15]

Why isn't there a like button for posts

[Tragak]

Bloodfeast the Extreminator is way too big for an Allosaurus. If we can't demand absolute realism in our web comics, then what source do we have for ethics and morality? No. Now that there has been one potential paleontological inaccuracy in the comic, I can no longer believe in anything anymore. This comic is dead to me now. Democracy has failed. The world, alas, has ended. :smallconfused: …What.

[SavageWombat]

:smallconfused: …What.

Well, of course you'd think that - you're a kobold.

[137beth]

On a related note, if you go to Toys R Us, you can buy an Allosaurus of roughly the same coloration/stripe patterns as Bloodfeast. Coincidence... or CONSPIRACY?

That means Bloodfeast is involved with the Trigak conspiracy! Along with the Oracle!

[Doug Lampert]

Now which is more likely:

- that the Giant would make such an horrendous error in the size of what is clearly intended to be break-out character of the next book (probably the subject of the next prequel);

- or in fact the party has been subject to a massive spatial distortion field in the vicinity of the rift, causing Bloodfeast and the Order (and anyone else who has come too near the rift) to now be shifting in size in a random manner.

Personally I think the Giant is far to good a writer to offer the first explanation even a shred of credibility. It must be an effect of the rift.

+1: DeliaP wins this thread.

[ti'esar]

Now which is more likely:

- that the Giant would make such an horrendous error in the size of what is clearly intended to be break-out character of the next book (probably the subject of the next prequel);

- or in fact the party has been subject to a massive spatial distortion field in the vicinity of the rift, causing Bloodfeast and the Order (and anyone else who has come too near the rift) to now be shifting in size in a random manner.

Personally I think the Giant is far to good a writer to offer the first explanation even a shred of credibility. It must be an effect of the rift.

You are my hero.

[blunk]

I'm not sure that your argument logically follows.

[Loreweaver15]

I'm not sure that your argument logically follows.

(that's the joke)

[Jaxzan Proditor]

(that's the joke)

Shshsh (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DontExplainTheJoke)!

[blunk]

(that's the joke)Ah, I see.

[Mighty_Chicken]

Guys, no one really knows how big Allosauruses were. All we got are Allosaurus fossils - bones from Allosauruses that died. And they died because they weren't big enough. Anything from one inch to a hundred yards bigger than the biggest Allosaurus skeleton ever found could be the average size of the normal, not lame Allosauruses that didn't die.

[Domino Quartz]

Guys, no one really knows how big Allosauruses were. All we got are Allosaurus fossils - bones from Allosauruses that died. And they died because they weren't big enough. Anything from one inch to a hundred yards bigger than the biggest Allosaurus skeleton ever found could be the average size of the normal, not lame Allosauruses that didn't die.

So, then, what happened to these hypothetical immortal Allosauruses that grew to be larger?

[SavageWombat]

Well, tell me this smart guy - if birds evolved from dinosaurs, why are there still dinosaurs?

[Vrock_Summoner]

So, then, what happened to these hypothetical immortal Allosauruses that grew to be larger?

They became dragons, obviously. They're invisible, though. Can only see them if you get real close.

(Morrowind, anyone?)

[Chronos]

Bloodfeast is clearly a Dire Allosaurus.

[Sir_Leorik]

On a related note, if you go to Toys R Us, you can buy an Allosaurus of roughly the same coloration/stripe patterns as Bloodfeast. Coincidence... or CONSPIRACY?

Maybe it's a little from column A and a little from column B? :smallbiggrin:

[Keltest]

Maybe it's a little from column A and a little from column B? :smallbiggrin:

Coinspiridence?

[Sir_Leorik]

Well, tell me this smart guy - if birds evolved from dinosaurs, why are there still dinosaurs?

A Wizard did it!

[Sir_Leorik]

Coinspiridence?

:roach: "Psst! Quick, go trademark 'coinspiridence'!"

[happyman]

Now which is more likely:

- that the Giant would make such an horrendous error in the size of what is clearly intended to be break-out character of the next book (probably the subject of the next prequel);

- or in fact the party has been subject to a massive spatial distortion field in the vicinity of the rift, causing Bloodfeast and the Order (and anyone else who has come too near the rift) to now be shifting in size in a random manner.

Personally I think the Giant is far to good a writer to offer the first explanation even a shred of credibility. It must be an effect of the rift.

Nah, I think a better explanation is that after Blackwing looked in the rift, he saw that Haley was half-celestial and learned V's gender, which in turn revealed to him what Miko's alignment was when she died and what Durkon's current alignment is. This instantly turned him into the son of the Snarl and half-brother to the MitD. From this, he gained the power to selectively rewrite reality at a whim. Among other this, this allowed him to get revenge on V by changing how the party responded to Blackwing, as well as automatically buffing any related creature types, so when he saw Bloodfeast the exterminator and admired him, Bloodfeast instantly (and retroactively) got made even more awesome.

There you go.

[SavageWombat]

Nah, I think a better explanation is that after Blackwing looked in the rift, he saw that Haley was half-celestial and learned V's gender, which in turn revealed to him what Miko's alignment was when she died and what Durkon's current alignment is. This instantly turned him into the son of the Snarl and half-brother to the MitD. From this, he gained the power to selectively rewrite reality at a whim. Among other this, this allowed him to get revenge on V by changing how the party responded to Blackwing, as well as automatically buffing any related creature types, so when he saw Bloodfeast the exterminator and admired him, Bloodfeast instantly (and retroactively) got made even more awesome.

There you go.

Well, of course, everybody already knew that.

[NZNinja]

It's not the first time (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0280.html)that Rich failed at sizing. It's something he's not good.

At one point, I was playing around with the silly idea of taking the height of the characters in pixels and comparing that to a known height/pixel ration, specifically using Ian Starshine's listed height on his wanted poster vs his measured height in pixels. As Ian shared quite a few panels with Roy, and Roy has shared quite a few panels with... well, everyone, this should be able to give me the height of more or less all of the characters.

However, the ratio of pixels kept changing - sometimes slightly, sometimes by a lot. Put it down to measurement error, or failure to account for changes in perspective, or something else I failed to take into account, but I just couldn't nail down Roy to anything closer than "about 6 foot tall" - as best I recall, the error range was some like +/- 4 inches (+/- 5.555%).

Any attempts to determine the heights of other characters from Roy blew out the margin of error even further, to the point of making the whole (already pointless) exercise worthless - the most common response to the results was "Well, duh, that's about what I already measured using only my Mk I human eyeball anyway."

TL/DR: The Giant is not consistent (as in, to the pixel) with the sizing of his characters, and it's silly to expect him to be.

[DeliaP]

Nah, I think a better explanation is that after Blackwing looked in the rift, he saw that Haley was half-celestial and learned V's gender, which in turn revealed to him what Miko's alignment was when she died and what Durkon's current alignment is. This instantly turned him into the son of the Snarl and half-brother to the MitD. From this, he gained the power to selectively rewrite reality at a whim. Among other this, this allowed him to get revenge on V by changing how the party responded to Blackwing, as well as automatically buffing any related creature types, so when he saw Bloodfeast the exterminator and admired him, Bloodfeast instantly (and retroactively) got made even more awesome.

There you go.


Well, of course, everybody already knew that.
Yeah, it was clearly written in Julio's letter to Elan (if your browser has sufficient resolution).

[mikeejimbo]

No no, you're all looking at it wrong. The answer is much simpler. It's an unreliable narrator - no one in the work is particularly good at paleontology, so it's misidentified. Rich actually knows what it is, and has known since nearly the beginning of the strip. It's up to us to guess it.

[HeeJay]

This is the best thread ever! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Thanks, guys.

[Socksy]

Perhaps he's dinosaur otherkin, and while he identifies as an allosaurus, he's physically something else?

[Trillium]

I am to lazy to read all the comments, but I want to point out to the OP.

Paleontology lacks realism and accuracy itself. In truth, all dinosaurs looked exactly the same, but different paleontologists just build them differently from loose bones.

[colanderman]

Are you talking aboot tiny Durkon or big boot?

? Durkon's the same size he always is. For some reason Celia's giant.

(The chair looks oversized but it's actually designed to hold Large creatures.)

[Amphiox]

Allosaurus fragilis, the most common species of allosaurus, was about 28-30 feet adult size. But the largest known allosaurid was Epanterias amplexus, which grew to at least 40 feet (ie T. rex size), and some palaeontologists argue that it should be classified as a species of allosaurus, ie Allosaurus epanterias.

Bloodfeast is a little bit bigger than even a T. Rex, assuming Roy is about 6 feet tall, but it is close.

And of course, Bloodfeast is a *domestic* allosaur. A few generations of selective breeding by Tarquin's Dino-handlers could pump up the size of the lineage quite a bit. Think how bog the biggest dog breeds are compared to the average wolf.

[Heksefatter]

On a related note, if you go to Toys R Us, you can buy an Allosaurus of roughly the same coloration/stripe patterns as Bloodfeast. Coincidence... or CONSPIRACY?

The Giant sold out to the faceless corporations. Simple as that.

[rbetieh]

Well, of course you'd think that - you're a kobold.

I believe the accepted correct response set when a person says "What?" ranges from "English do you SPEAK it?" to "Say 'what' again, I DARE YOU".

I wish there was a Samuel L Jackson smilie....

[Amphiox]

In the same vein that Bloodfeast is too big for an Allosaurus, Tarquin's Triceratops that gored Roy is too small. Perhaps it was a juvenile, but employing an inexperienced juvenile as a war mount isn't exactly smart tactical thinking.

The pterosaurs were also wrongly sized. In this case because, while there WERE pterosaurs of that size range, the pterosaurs with that wingspan would have weighed only a little bit more than an adult human, meaning that to take a rider, they would have to effectively carry twice their own body weight. And it is thought that the large pterosaurs were pushing the upper limits of what is physiologically possible with regards to size, weight and flight, meaning that it is unclear if a pterosaur of that size could be weighted down with a rider almost as heavy as its own body and still fly. Even if it could still fly, its endurance and maneuverability in the air would be severely compromised.

Which might explain why it was so easy for V to pick off those riders with her lightning spells!

You know, maybe this *isn't* a sign of The Giant not knowing his paleontology. Maybe it is The Giant using his unparalleled knowledge of paleontology to foreshadow Tarquin's great weakness! He assembled a dinosaur army that is tactically and strategically unsound, using animals inappropriate to the military tasks he employed them in, but he didn't care, because narrative trumps all for him, and a dinosaur army makes for a cool narrative.

[Sir_Leorik]

In the same vein that Bloodfeast is too big for an Allosaurus, Tarquin's Triceratops that gored Roy is too small. Perhaps it was a juvenile, but employing an inexperienced juvenile as a war mount isn't exactly smart tactical thinking.

The pterosaurs were also wrongly sized. In this case because, while there WERE pterosaurs of that size range, the pterosaurs with that wingspan would have weighed only a little bit more than an adult human, meaning that to take a rider, they would have to effectively carry twice their own body weight. And it is thought that the large pterosaurs were pushing the upper limits of what is physiologically possible with regards to size, weight and flight, meaning that it is unclear if a pterosaur of that size could be weighted down with a rider almost as heavy as its own body and still fly. Even if it could still fly, its endurance and maneuverability in the air would be severely compromised.

Which might explain why it was so easy for V to pick off those riders with her lightning spells!

You know, maybe this *isn't* a sign of The Giant not knowing his paleontology. Maybe it is The Giant using his unparalleled knowledge of paleontology to foreshadow Tarquin's great weakness! He assembled a dinosaur army that is tactically and strategically unsound, using animals inappropriate to the military tasks he employed them in, but he didn't care, because narrative trumps all for him, and a dinosaur army makes for a cool narrative.

As an alternate explanation, maybe this is a result of one of the many compromises the gods had to make when creating the current world, to trap the Snarl and avoid it noticing what they were doing.

Monkey: Okay, what about dinosaurs?

Tyr: What about them?

Monkey: Aren't we going to create any?

Ishtar: What's the point of creating dinosaurs? We're already creating birds, right?

Rat: I think Monkey wants dinosaurs and birds co-existing together. Not in an evolutionary sense, but because it's cool.

Monkey: Damn straight!

Thor: Forsooth! I second Monkey's proposal! Let's have dinosaurs, and put them on an island somewhere, so adventurers can come and have adventures fighting dinosaurs!

Odin: Ooh, just like in "Jurassic Park"!

Dog: Can I just point out that we're talking about Large and Huge Animals on an island? How is there supposed to be a self-sustaining ecosystem there?

Nergal: Won't the herbivores strip the island of plant life in a few years, causing a mass die off of the herbivores and the carnivores? Speaking as a death god, that's not an interesting way for dinosaurs to die. If we're going to agree to create them, I'd like to see them fighting each other to the death, like in "King Kong".

Tiamat: These dinosaurs better not overshadow Dragons. No making them sapient, or fire breathing. And no purple dinosaurs.

Dragon: By the spires of Mt. Celestia, I can not agree more with Tiamat: no purple dinosaurs!

Monkey: Wouldn't dream of it!

Loki: We still need to work out how these creatures will co-exist on an island.

Pig: We need to make some modifications. Make the herbivores smaller, the plant life more tenacious, and increase the predators' hit dice. That will increase their base size, decreasing their AC and to hit bonuses, allowing the smaller herbivores to escape more easily. The carnivores will be big enough to keep the herbivore population under control, and the herbivores won't need as much food anyway due to their smaller sizes.

Thor: And we tell our Clerics and Druids about the island, and maybe scatter some treasure there!

Marduk: That's a good idea! And since the dinosaurs are so powerful, we'll make the treasures better than normal, worth 10,000 gp minimum!

Odin: Okay, all in favor of creating Dinosaur Island, populating it with modified dinosaurs, dumping treasure there, and letting our Clerics and Druids know about, say aye!

All: Aye!

Asmodeus: Excuse me, I couldn't help but overhear your discussion. One of my minions is due for a promotion, and when I heard you guys discussing dinosaurs on a remote island, I immediately thought of a way to "reward" him. Could I dump my guy there, maybe as a boss monster in one of the dungeons?

Monkey: Hmm, most of these stereotypical "lost world" islands have some sort of big bad. Sure, he can come, provided he has to stay on the island.

Asmodeus: Heh, heh, don't worry, this guy isn't going to leave, if he knows what's good for him! Hey Shmuelly! I got a new assignment for ya! You're the new "Devil-King" of Dinosaur Island!

Loki: Shmuelly? Didn't he spill soup on you at the Seder last year?

Asmodeus: Oh yeah. We've been cooking him repeatedly in matzah ball soup ever since.

[DeliaP]

+1: DeliaP wins this thread.


Perhaps he's dinosaur otherkin, and while he identifies as an allosaurus, he's physically something else?

Hey Socksy, I'm giving this thread on to you!


As an alternate explanation, maybe this is a result of one of the many compromises the gods had to make when creating the current world, to trap the Snarl and avoid it noticing what they were doing.

awesome stuff, go back up and read it...

Oh, wait, I think you're going to have to share it with Sir Leorik...

[Knaight]

In the same vein that Bloodfeast is too big for an Allosaurus, Tarquin's Triceratops that gored Roy is too small. Perhaps it was a juvenile, but employing an inexperienced juvenile as a war mount isn't exactly smart tactical thinking.

Nah, it all makes sense. Bloodfeast fought in the arena a bunch - he was an advanced allosaurus with more hit dice. In D&D, that makes them bigger. Meanwhile Tarquin's Triceratops is too small because Tarquin doesn't do smart tactical thinking. It all fits into place.

[Pyron]

In the same vein that Bloodfeast is too big for an Allosaurus, Tarquin's Triceratops that gored Roy is too small. Perhaps it was a juvenile, but employing an inexperienced juvenile as a war mount isn't exactly smart tactical thinking.

I think I can explain all of this with one word: Magic!

[nogall]

Bloodfeast the Extreminator is way too big for an Allosaurus. If we can't demand absolute realism in our web comics, then what source do we have for ethics and morality? No. Now that there has been one potential paleontological inaccuracy in the comic, I can no longer believe in anything anymore. This comic is dead to me now. Democracy has failed. The world, alas, has ended.

I disbelieve your suspension of disbelief.

[Socksy]

I think I can explain all of this with one word: Magic!

That's why Miron blew those concentration checks! His ranks are all in Handle Animal!

[SavageWombat]

Hey Socksy, I'm giving this thread on to you!



Oh, wait, I think you're going to have to share it with Sir Leorik...

You can't just give a thread you won away. It's a trophy. They have to earn it from you by beating you at the next national tournament.

Everybody back in the thread in 2015.

[Sir_Leorik]

You can't just give a thread you won away. It's a trophy. They have to earn it from you by beating you at the next national tournament.

Everybody back in the thread in 2015.

No need to argue! In the spirit of the Olympics, I propose we nominate judges and they award medals (or cookies?) to the top three posters in this thread.

Of course to truly reflect the Olympic spirit, we'd need to hold a bidding war for which part of the Forum will judge the competition, followed by massively delayed construction of new threads to hold the judge's debates in, and of course we'd need to preempt all other threads for a period of two weeks. Does that about sum it up? :smallwink:

[DeliaP]

No need to argue! In the spirit of the Olympics, I propose we nominate judges and they award medals (or cookies?) to the top three posters in this thread.

Of course to truly reflect the Olympic spirit, we'd need to hold a bidding war for which part of the Forum will judge the competition, followed by massively delayed construction of new threads to hold the judge's debates in, and of course we'd need to preempt all other threads for a period of two weeks. Does that about sum it up? :smallwink:

I think you forgot the need for extensive testing of all posters for performance enhancing substances, and the threat of being banned for life from ever winning a thread again.

[Tragak]

performance enhancing substances Like what, hyperconducting* batteries?

*Superconductors have 0 electrical resistance, hyperconductors would in this case have negative electrical resistance, but even if those did exist (in which case the Nobel Prize credit would be worth more than the reduced internet privileges), they would be applied to wires that conduct power rather than the batteries that make it.

[mikeejimbo]

Hyperconductor? 'Ardly know 'er!

[Socksy]

Hyperconductor? 'Ardly know 'er!

This is the first thread I've been in where the derailment has become better than the actual, amazing starting topic.

[mikeejimbo]

This is the first thread I've been in where the derailment has become better than the actual, amazing starting topic.

Really?? Well, you haven't been around as long as I have. :smallbiggrin:

[lunar2]

I disbelieve your suspension of disbelief.

I disbelieve the floor, the walls, the ceiling, the door... (http://agc.deskslave.org/comic_viewer.html?goNumber=54)

off topic, is AGC not updating anymore? there hasn't been a new comic in a couple of weeks, at least (that's how long it's been since i got caught up).