So, I'm writing my first real novella

[The Second]

After years of practice, false starts, and half-hearted tries, I've finally decided to get serious and write something fit to be published.

I started like I usually do, with an idea, then wrote an outline that ended up being quite a bit longer than I expected. I waited a couple of days, edited things down to something I thought was manageable at 1400 words.

Next step. the actual writing thing. Halfway through chapter one, and I get an idea for a later chapter, and write that. Then, finished chapter one.

So, now I have chapter one and chapter x. I start on chapter two, and suddenly I find myself slogging through it. I've been sitting here for four hours, and have managed to write less than 200 words.

Chapter one is 2150 words and mostly wrote itself. Chapter x is 2116 words and, again, was nice and easy.

This is what usually happens to me when I want to do something seriously. I start getting bogged down and lose interest in the story and characters.

So, any other authors here in the Playground, aspiring or otherwise? How do you keep motivated when writing becomes a chore?

[danzibr]

I feel ya.

First of all, let me say I'm not published (not for fiction, though I have math papers out there), and I plan on waiting at least 5 more years before I even think about submitting things to publishers.

As far as my writing goes, I started when I was 17. I'd been accumulating ideas throughout my youth and decided to just start writing. I had no outline, only a very vague idea of what happened at the beginning and the end. As a result, it took me ~6 years to complete, and is now 332k words.

Before writing my second story, I waited a bit (a couple of months), did some planning. It took me 2 years to write, and is 308k words.

For the third, I waited some more (again, a couple of months), and planned it much more thoroughly. It was also *much* easier to both plan and write as the plot was a hundred times simpler. Took me a couple months to write (basically one summer), and is 73k words.

I haven't written anything in about 7 months now. Besides being busy with school, I feel I'm not ready. My big stories have many characters, and writing the next big one is a very daunting task (I have about 17k words in notes for the next big one alone). My short stories are prequels to the bigger ones, and I sort of feel I should write them first, but I feel I don't have sufficient outlines.

Anyway. To answer you questions, as to how to keep motivated, here are my two cents: make sure your outline is detailed enough so that you know exactly what happens in every single chapter (though of course surprises will appear throughout the writing process), and set a reasonable, minimum word goal per day. When I'm busy, I only do 500 words a day. When I have more time, I do up to 3k words per day.

The important thing about writing those 500 words is to keep in mind... it's okay to write crap. Sometimes you write stuff and you realize it's crap. You have to push through it to get to what you really *want* to write, and that stuff will be golden. Granted, you need to fix that crap when you do revisions, but it's okay to have a couple crap scenes in the first version.

Oh, I also have a folder full of auxiliary information. Like maps, timelines, regional information, glossary, character biographies, etc.

And you might want to make a wiki. Even if nobody reads it, it's good for organization.

[Grinner]

And you might want to make a wiki. Even if nobody reads it, it's good for organization.

I use Wikidpad (http://wikidpad.sourceforge.net/) for my projects. It's an open-source text editor designed with many features common to wikis. Very useful for organizing information without having to go online.

[Moriwen]

Write out of order.


It sounds like you were doing that at first -- chapter 1, then chapter x -- but then felt like you "had" to go back and write chapter 2.

Here's the thing: You don't have to.

I've been seriously writing on my novel-in-progress since Christmas, and I don't think I've written two consecutive parts yet. Start with whatever's interesting to you -- the big twist, important character scenes, the dramatic ending. Other stuff will show up as you write it, and suddenly that subplot or secondary character will be really exciting, and hey, it'll fill in that gap that you were slogging through before! I think of it as "fractal writing," because you fill in the smaller and smaller gaps between major plotpoints with little plotpoints on sideplots or character building moments or developing the setting or whatever.

Write the bits that made you want to write the novel in the first place. By the time you've written all of those, you'll have more bits you want to write.

[danzibr]

I use Wikidpad (http://wikidpad.sourceforge.net/) for my projects. It's an open-source text editor designed with many features common to wikis. Very useful for organizing information without having to go online.
Totally going to make use of this.*

Write out of order.

I could not disagree more.

I'd say make notes for future chapters, write pieces of conversations in future chapters, write key paragraphs of future chapters, but do not write chapters out of order.

The reason: your ideas are like dots, and when you actually write, it's like playing connect the dots. The boring/difficult things to write are the lines going from one dot to another. The problem is that the material you use to connect your main plot points will influence the future plot points.

[FrankLuke]

Every writer is different. Every story is different. I've written short stories and novellas and been published (http://www.amazon.com/Rebirths-Frank-Luke/dp/1484967364/).

For some of them I did extensive outlines. For others I wrote seat of my pants. I've found that I work best between the two. Instead of writing "into the dark" (with no idea of where the rest of the story will go), I write best in "low light." That is, I have the start of the story and where I want it to end; there will be small ideas for the middle parts like scenes or chapters. That gives me direction. Some of those that I wrote "into the dark" really meandered around and went nowhere. But when I have an end goal, the writing comes much easier. When I have too much of an outline, the story becomes boring to write. That is me and need not apply to others.

Don't worry about the order. Just write. If you don't write, you can't improve your art. In my favorite novella to write ("Once Called" in the above collection), I wrote the first scene first, then the next to the last scene (fighting the BBEG), then the scene of the hero's personal revelation (about 70% through the story when done), then the last scene. Then I went back and filled in the rest of the pieces in whatever order struck me. Yes, I did have to go back and smooth a few things out but it was all minor. 24K words in 9 weeks with a day job and also a pastorate.

You might find these blog (http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?page_id=860) series (http://www.deanwesleysmith.com/?page_id=3736) helpful. I have.

As for keeping motivated, that's an issue right now. I have problems at my day job that have been sucking the life out of my writing. At the first of last month, I wrote "Snake Oil Man" in 3 writing sessions (7,500 words). Since then, I've been wanting to work on "The New and the Old" (part of the sequel to Rebirths) and dragging along. Most nights I don't even want to write; this fact astonishes me and my wife.

However, last week, ideas started flowing not only for "New and Old" but the other pieces of the sequel. I wrote down the ideas and the themes I want to explore in those stories (probably each will be a novella except "New and Old" which at this point looks to be somewhere between short story and novella). Now, I know where "New and Old" needs to go, but actually writing it has not had nearly as much desire. So I push through. I just sit down and write the next sentence. Then I write the sentence after that. I might only get a couple hundred words a night (last night I imagine I barely broke 100), but that is a few hundred words more than if I chose to not write.

To summarize: when you aren't motivated, write something anyway. You can either write in your current work or write something else. Write the next scene or skip around. But the first rule of being a writer is you must write. (Rule 2 is you must finish what you write.)

[Kislath]

Most of my own best stuff was written without any outline, by the "seat of my pants." I only had a vague idea of what should happen, and then thought up how it happened as I went along.
That said, I wouldn't recommend it unless it works for you, as that method requires the most editing later in the process.

I usually try to write outlines, but they wind up so detailed as I write them that I usually just wind up in full-on writing mode.

If you make your villain as interesting as the hero, so much so that the reader has a tough time deciding who to root for, then you'll have a pretty good story.

I always write start to finish in linear order, but before I start I always have a beginning and an end worked out, and usually a few highlights from the middle. Then it's just a matter of filling in the blanks.

Some of the best free advice you'll ever find on the internet has been compiled into a dozen lessons by a very accomplished professional writer. here they are:
http://warrenmurphy.com/writing-class/

[danzibr]

For you writers, how long is your work?

[Moriwen]

Totally going to make use of this.*

I could not disagree more.

I'd say make notes for future chapters, write pieces of conversations in future chapters, write key paragraphs of future chapters, but do not write chapters out of order.

The reason: your ideas are like dots, and when you actually write, it's like playing connect the dots. The boring/difficult things to write are the lines going from one dot to another. The problem is that the material you use to connect your main plot points will influence the future plot points.

We must write very differently! :) And actually, I agree with you on the connect-the-dots metaphor. I need to draw all the dots first, before I start on the lines.

Every time I've written something longer than a couple hundred words, I've known before it started how it would end, a character or two, a handful of scenes/images, maybe some major plot points. So I write those first, and then I figure out how they got there. Always worked for me (although I haven't written a full novel, so maybe the process is different.)

For instance, in something I wrote recently, I knew it was going to end with a shouting match between three particular characters, standing in a bombed-out neighborhood. I didn't know how they got there or why the neighborhood had been bombed until much later.

If you'd like to share about what writing looks like for you, I'd really love to hear (and I'm sure it would be useful to the OP). I'm always intrigued by how other people think, and maybe I'll pick up some new techniques! :)

[Saph]

So, any other authors here in the Playground, aspiring or otherwise? How do you keep motivated when writing becomes a chore?

Often if it is a chore, that's a sign that something's wrong.

If you've lost interest in the story and characters, that's a bad sign. It's fine for writing to be hard, but it shouldn't be boring. If you're not interested in the story you're writing, your reader probably won't be either.

I abandoned a lot of stories before writing my first novel, and looking back on it, there was probably a reason for that. Nowadays if I find myself losing interest in a chapter, I take that as a sign that it's time to go back to the drawing board and change the outline until it feels interesting again.

[danzibr]

We must write very differently! :) And actually, I agree with you on the connect-the-dots metaphor. I need to draw all the dots first, before I start on the lines.

Every time I've written something longer than a couple hundred words, I've known before it started how it would end, a character or two, a handful of scenes/images, maybe some major plot points. So I write those first, and then I figure out how they got there. Always worked for me (although I haven't written a full novel, so maybe the process is different.)

For instance, in something I wrote recently, I knew it was going to end with a shouting match between three particular characters, standing in a bombed-out neighborhood. I didn't know how they got there or why the neighborhood had been bombed until much later.

If you'd like to share about what writing looks like for you, I'd really love to hear (and I'm sure it would be useful to the OP). I'm always intrigued by how other people think, and maybe I'll pick up some new techniques! :)
I'm glad you like my analogy :)

Also, I believe I misunderstood you earlier. I thought you were talking about writing entire *chapters* out of order. I would never suggest that. But writing short scenes, yeah, I think that's good. I personally never do it, only writing notes for the scenes.

First, I should say I write in short scenes. Scenes are separated by a line with asterisks, and going from scene to scene either involves a change of the narrator, so to speak, or a time jump. Sometimes the scenes are only a few paragraphs, sometimes a few pages.

When I write, sometimes I have to weave 6+ stories together, and the scenes are always done chronologically. For this reason I have to plan and plan and plan and plan before I do any writing whatsoever. I plan out every individual scene. I used to not do this, but that made the actual writing process way harder.

However, I don't know anything about writing short stories, so my writing style is probably no good for those. The main 2 I've written are over 300k, and my short one is 73k. Granted, they're so huge it's possible no publisher will touch them...

Often if it is a chore, that's a sign that something's wrong.

If you've lost interest in the story and characters, that's a bad sign. It's fine for writing to be hard, but it shouldn't be boring. If you're not interested in the story you're writing, your reader probably won't be either.

I abandoned a lot of stories before writing my first novel, and looking back on it, there was probably a reason for that. Nowadays if I find myself losing interest in a chapter, I take that as a sign that it's time to go back to the drawing board and change the outline until it feels interesting again.
I was wondering if Saph would show up.

And interesting... lack of interest -> back to the drawing board.

[FrankLuke]

For you writers, how long is your work?

Rebirths is 54K words long.

"Sunset Over Gunther" is 6K
"The Contest" is 7-8K*
"Pursuit" is 7-8K*

"The Strong Survive" is 12K*
"The Stronger Rule" is 12K*

*Going from memory as I haven't looked at those word counts in a while.

"The Other Cemetery" is 6K.
"The Buick Eight" is 6K.
"Crazy Moon" is 6K
"Sixes Wild" is 6K

And I'm 4K into "The New and the Old," the first part of the sequel to "Rebirths."
"Snake Oil Man" is 7.5K

[Delusion]

All this talk about how much people can write in a day makes me feel so slow, I rarely write over 500 a day and the 1200 that I force myself to reach for each of my updates of my webseries takes me on avarage 2 weeks.

[HalfTangible]

After years of practice, false starts, and half-hearted tries, I've finally decided to get serious and write something fit to be published.

I started like I usually do, with an idea, then wrote an outline that ended up being quite a bit longer than I expected. I waited a couple of days, edited things down to something I thought was manageable at 1400 words.

Next step. the actual writing thing. Halfway through chapter one, and I get an idea for a later chapter, and write that. Then, finished chapter one.

So, now I have chapter one and chapter x. I start on chapter two, and suddenly I find myself slogging through it. I've been sitting here for four hours, and have managed to write less than 200 words.

Chapter one is 2150 words and mostly wrote itself. Chapter x is 2116 words and, again, was nice and easy.

This is what usually happens to me when I want to do something seriously. I start getting bogged down and lose interest in the story and characters.

So, any other authors here in the Playground, aspiring or otherwise? How do you keep motivated when writing becomes a chore?

I grab something else and write it for a while instead. Or (as others have said) try skipping to a scene/chapter you can write for a while and then come back to the one slowing you down.


For you writers, how long is your work?

It's not done yet and I've never counted, but best guess is about 10,000 words so far. Most individual short stories or scenes I write are a couple thousand words.

[Asta Kask]

For you writers, how long is your work?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PnGsrt8lu0o/TvNGg1ZxxaI/AAAAAAAAAkU/4x3wQBa4UDw/s320/classsize4.jpg

[danzibr]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PnGsrt8lu0o/TvNGg1ZxxaI/AAAAAAAAAkU/4x3wQBa4UDw/s320/classsize4.jpg
While quality and size are unrelated, size is telling.

Plus... I'm just curious.

[Krade]

So, I'm writing my first real novella

Were all of your previous ones fake?

I'll show myself out...

[TheThan]

Write out of order.


It sounds like you were doing that at first -- chapter 1, then chapter x -- but then felt like you "had" to go back and write chapter 2.

Here's the thing: You don't have to.

I

yeah, heck they don't even film movies in sequential order, particularly if they're on location somewhere. they have something called editing that puts it all together. I can't imagine why a body couldn't do the same with writing.

[Talanic]

It feels right to me to do things in order. Individual stories can jump about in time, but so far I haven't even done flashbacks in-story. And that's okay - it's just the way it works for me.

When I find that a chapter is simply not going well at all, I find it useful to back up and examine the ending of the previous chapter. Usually something is wrong immediately before the part I'm trying to write and I just haven't figured it out yet.

I'm trying to headbutt my way through my second novel right now. Slow going, sadly. I don't have many fans yet but I hate to disappoint them.