Multi Class question

[GutterFace]

So it came up last night, a player wants to take a few levels of different Alternate classes within the same class. let me explain

from Dragon mag #310. he wants to take 1 level of Survivalist Fighter and 2 levels of the Exoticist Fighter. would you rule this as multiclassing. or let it slide as they are the same class but just alternate features?
or is there a hard rule on this matter?

[GreenETC]

You can't actually multiclass in the same class, even when using different variants.

But honestly, it wouldn't break your game if you wanted to just treat it like multiclassing.

[Spore]

If he dips for certain abilities, perhaps you could make him trade some abilities fairly. After all that's what the ACF system is about.

[Feralventas]

When handling this sort of thing, I'd look to PF's Archetype options. You can take more than one set, but they cannot replace the same feature.

So, if you have one ACF that replaces your 4th level feat, and one that replaces your Heavy armor and Shield proficiency, then that's fine, stack them on the same fighter levels. If they both replace the same proficiency however, that's not going to suffice.

[GutterFace]

If he dips for certain abilities, perhaps you could make him trade some abilities fairly. After all that's what the ACF system is about.

this is a good point and a good solution. thank you!

[Segev]

So, if you have one ACF that replaces your 4th level feat, and one that replaces your Heavy armor and Shield proficiency, then that's fine, stack them on the same fighter levels. If they both replace the same proficiency however, that's not going to suffice.

I've often wondered, would it be broken to treat a pair of ACFs which trade out the same class feature as having to pick one of them to take and the other as being "traded out?"

Let me make up an example (because I don't have the pfsrd open at the moment): Say you have an archetype that swaps out the fighter's 4th level feat for the ability to use strength on your ranged attack rolls, and the special armor training class features with special "bow training" class features; and another archetype which trades out armor training class features for extra dodge bonuses to AC and the first level fighter feat for an extra 10 ft. of speed. Would it break anything to take them both, layering them such that you trade out first the armor training for "bow training," then trade the "bow training" for the dodge bonuses to AC? (Perhaps you want to play a throwing-things specialist, and add strength to hit and damage rather than just damage, but don't care about bows.)

[Psyren]

Let me make up an example (because I don't have the pfsrd open at the moment): Say you have an archetype that swaps out the fighter's 4th level feat for the ability to use strength on your ranged attack rolls, and the special armor training class features with special "bow training" class features; and another archetype which trades out armor training class features for extra dodge bonuses to AC and the first level fighter feat for an extra 10 ft. of speed. Would it break anything to take them both, layering them such that you trade out first the armor training for "bow training," then trade the "bow training" for the dodge bonuses to AC? (Perhaps you want to play a throwing-things specialist, and add strength to hit and damage rather than just damage, but don't care about bows.)

It doesn't hurt the game at all, and in fact I can think of some really cool combinations from doing this. For instance, Ki Mystic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/ki-mystic) and Monk of the Lotus (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/monk-of-the-lotus) can be combined normally to create a very spiritual pacifist build, who protects the party and makes enemies surrender without ever throwing a punch. You could max your Wisdom as high as it can go, to the point that you're even calming dragons, and you'll have enough ki to make your allies reroll their attacks and saves left and right.

For such a character, Vow of Peace (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/monk-vows/vow-of-peace) would be a perfect fit, and you could even throw in other vows like Fasting and Truth; this both guides your roleplay even further and rewards you with even more ki. However, Ki Mystic can't be combined with the Vows normally because both replace the Still Mind class feature. Since Ki Mystic replaces it with an ability that is largely unnecessary (you get your ki pool 1 level earlier than normal), I would let you replace Still Mind with Ki Mystic, then replace the Ki Mystic early ki pool with the Vows, and simply get your regular ki pool normally at level 4 since none of these three archetypes actually replaces it.

[Feralventas]

I don't think it would be terribly broken, though it would need to be taken on a case-by-case basis. Most Fighter ACFs aren't going to break the game, but situational stuff comes up.

That said, since you used it as an example, you can get Strength to Bow damage by just buying a strength bow. They're +100gp cost per +1 strength you want on the damage, and you take a -4 if your strength modifier isn't at least equal to the value of the strength bow.

This is a pretty easy way to get a PF fighter to work decently at melee and range; High strength, Weapon Training in bows to make up for the lack of dex, then full BAB and WT give you a decent chance to hit while STR to damage on each attack are enough to do okay when you need to pull a bow even if your feats are mostly Power Attack/Cleave centric or something.