Need a Bit of Rogue Help (3.5)

[KoboldMasteRace]

I usually play spellcasters, but I decided to try something new in an upcoming campaign, so now I want to try a Rogue, or rogueish class at least, since I've never done so before.

So yeah, what are some versatile and powerful choices I can make with this Rogue or Rogue-like so as to not be sucky and useless? I imagine there's no way I could overpower the rest of the party so go all-out. (They're a Kobold Sorcerer, a human Ranger with an ACF chain longer than the amount of ACFs I've used in my entire gaming career, and a party-buffing Lesser Aasimar Cloistered Cleric with some template)

Given what the campaign is about, I'd like to be a Goblin or subrace thereof if it will be functional. And out of personal preference, I'll like builds that don't use Psionics more, but I'll give anything a shot so feel free to post whatever works for a sneaky, skillmonkey character that can hopefully accomplish something in combat.

Thanks in advance for any help, this character archetype is new to me.

[geekintheground]

try beguiler? its got the rogue-ish elements and is a spellcaster so you wont be totally lost.

[Sketchopotamus]

Quite possibly, go 4 Levels Rogue, then 15 levels of Swashbuckler, and 1 level of Shadow Dancer to pick up Hide in Plain Sight. At level 6 take the feat Daring Outlaw (CS pg. 76) to stack Rogue and Swash levels for sneak attack, grace, and dodge bonus.

So an example would be, a 4th level rogue and a 7th level Swash would be considered an 11th level rogue for sneak attack damage and an 11th level swash for grace and dodge bonus.

The benefits of this, is you get free Weapon Finesse with Swash, and Insightful Strike with Swash, Full base attack, and good fort saves.

[Sketchopotamus]

And if you really felt like getting complicated, and if your DM ignores multiclassing penalties, go 3 Rogue, 4 Fighter, and 13 Swash. Then take both the feats, Daring Outlaw (CS pg. 76) and Daring Warrior (CS pg. 76) to stack your Swash levels with Fighter levels for purposes Fighter bonus feats and once again Grace and Dodge bonus.

so a 3rd level Rogue, 4th level Fighter and 6th level Swash would have...

Sneak attack equivalent of a 9th level Rogue,

Extra feats equivalent of a 10th Level Fighter,

and Dodge and Grace bonus of a 13th Level Swash.

Plus nearly full base attack, decent saves. The good goodies.

After this point in time. The feat Craven (Champions of Ruin pg. 17) is your best friend. It adds your class level to any sneak attack damage you do.

[KoboldMasteRace]

That looks like a pretty awesome combo for mundane badassery, but the one with Fighter seems terribly nerfed for several levels until it starts taking Swashbuckler. How do you recommend getting through the part of the game where nothing's really advancing?

[Garagos]

Daring Warrior (CS pg. 76) to stack your Swash levels with Fighter levels for purposes Fighter bonus feats and once again Grace and Dodge bonus.

Daring Warrior does not let you gain Fighter bonus feats. It only allows you to qualify for feats that require a certain number of levels in Fighter, such as Weapon Specialization.

[Gwendol]

You can pick up the Dark template for HiPS and some other goodies.

[Garagos]

How does your group/DM feel about Homebrew stuff? Here's a feat I've seen mentioned a few times that mimic's the Daring Outlaw type feats, but it combines Rogue/Ranger instead of Rogue/Swashbuckler.

Silent Hunter

Prerequisites

Sneak Attack 2d6, Favored Enemy

Benefit

Your ranger and rogue levels stack for the purpose of determining the extra damage for sneak attacks. For example, a 4th-level rogue/1st-level ranger would deal an extra 3d6 points of damage when sneak attacking, as if she were a 5th-level rogue. Your ranger and scout levels also stack for the purpose of determining when you select additional favored enemies, as well as the total bonus granted against your favored enemies. For example, a 4th-level rogue/1st-level ranger would have two favored enemies and could allocate an extra +2 bonus against one of those favored enemies, as if she were a 5th-level ranger. In addition, your sneak attack extra damage applies against any creature you have selected as a favored enemy, even if it is normally immune to extra damage from critical hits or sneak attacks.

If you think you can use this, something like Rogue3/Ranger16/Barbarian1 would be decent. You get full sneak attack, two weapon fighting feats for free, ranger spells, and Pounce if you take the Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian ACF. Other good feats to take are Craven, Darkstalker, and Weapon Finesse.

[lumberingmenace]

It helps to know the starting level to make really specific suggestions if i may say so but, to play a good rogue you cant go wrong with well... rogue. A strong choice for prestige a prestige class is shadowdancer. You will hold your own in combat if you dont mind being patient. You wont do huge chunks of damage every round but you can at the most crucial moments. Also you can affect the battlefield in a variety of ways. My favorite is exercising my sleight of hand check to steal items from enemies during combat like oh say spell components, un used weapons and wands, and even gold for that matter what self respecting rogue doesnt take a little extra treasure for himself before its divided among the party.

[lumberingmenace]

Oh and one last thought a weapon with holy or disruption on it is not a bad idea so that the undead of the world dont render your combat skills useless.

[ddude987]

There is a combining feat that combines scout and ranger. A scout is a rough-like class and combining it with Ranger gives you a lot of flexibility. Another thing you could do is combine scout with rogue. This would give you lots of precision damage and access to ambush feats, some of which are pretty cool.

Here are some guides for research and reference
Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=156350)
Ranger-Scout (http://dictummortuum.blogspot.com/2011/09/swift-hunters-handbook.html)

[SPoilaaja]

How about something like Factotum 8/Swordsage 1/Chameleon 2/Mindbender 1/Chameleon +8


pick up martial stance (Assassin's stance) at lvl 9, Craven at 6 and a boatload of font of inspiration feats. If your wbl is high enough, you can substitute Weapon Finesse feat with a Feycraft weapon for 1500gp.

[ddude987]

There is also the classic Factotum 10/Chameleon 10 which can pretty much do anything. If you define rogue as Jack of all trades, master of all then this is the way to do it.

[gorfnab]

And if you really felt like getting complicated, and if your DM ignores multiclassing penalties, go 3 Rogue, 4 Fighter, and 13 Swash. Then take both the feats, Daring Outlaw (CS pg. 76) and Daring Warrior (CS pg. 76) to stack your Swash levels with Fighter levels for purposes Fighter bonus feats and once again Grace and Dodge bonus.

so a 3rd level Rogue, 4th level Fighter and 6th level Swash would have...

Sneak attack equivalent of a 9th level Rogue,

Extra feats equivalent of a 10th Level Fighter,

and Dodge and Grace bonus of a 13th Level Swash.

Plus nearly full base attack, decent saves. The good goodies.

After this point in time. The feat Craven (Champions of Ruin pg. 17) is your best friend. It adds your class level to any sneak attack damage you do.
The way to pull this off is to take something like Feat Rogue (UA, 1st level mainly for the extra skill points) 1/ Swashbuckler 3/ Sneak Attack (UA) Thug (UA) Fighter 3/ Feat Rogue 13 with the Daring Outlaw feat. This nets you 11d6 sneak attack, BAB 16, and 8 bonus Fighter feats. Throw in Zhentarim Fighter (CoR) ACF for free Skill Focus: Intimidate. You could also throw in two levels of Swordsage (sometime after level 6) for Assassin Stance, some maneuvers, and access to the Shadowblade feat. With this you loose out on 1 bonus Fighter feat but net an additional +1d6 sneak attack (-2 levels of Daring Outlaw Rogue for -1d6, Assassins Stance gets you 2d6 for a net gain of 1d6).

These may be of some use.
Rogue Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8711233)
Spellthief Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44299)
Factotum Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2720)
Swordsage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181705) Handbooks (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259783)
Swashbuckler Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=10768.0)
Sneak Attacking Spellcasters Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1240)