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View Full Version : Deed its own reward? (First Century players stay out)



Maxymiuk
2007-01-28, 05:25 PM
Ok, I've recently started running a more serious D&D game where I've discarded a fair number of assumptions that the Core makes - in this case, that particular creatures are evil by default. The players were warned of this before game started.

After 3 sessions the first adventure is drawing to a close (they'll be done during next game) and I have to say that they've so far did a great job.

The plot is thus: the party arrived at a village where they found out that a band of goblins has stolen all the food supplies. The time is in late autumn, after harvest (and taxes) so the villagers have little means to survive. The protagonists of course undertook the quest and set off into the woods.

Once they encountered the goblins it turned out that they don't want to fight. Their chief told the players that his tribe tried to live in this forest without interfering with anyone, but a dragon has moved into a nearby cave and begun depopulating the forest of its game. When the goblins protested, it killed off most of the delegation and torched half their village. Thus they were forced to steal from humans. The chief knew this would inevitably bring out adventurers that he could appeal to for help (not to mention that he could keep the stolen supplies if the adventurers botched the dragon slaying).

While I was prepared for the party to start the fight right there and then, they decided to go and appeal to the dragon. They had a goblin guide with them - a bit of a pushover, whom I used to play the sympathy card, when on the way they've ran into the corpse of his mate, who was part of the delegation.

When they met the dragon, it turned out to be an artist - a sculptor in wood to be exact. The reason it attacked the goblins was because they dared to attack him after his refusal, and knocked over one of his creations. I played the dragon as a bit of a nerd and rather reluctant to fight - fighting "upset his muse" - but it was clear that he'd go berserk if anyone so much as touched his work. In fact he offered the party a hefty reward if they could get rid of the goblin nuisance once and for all. Now, the players were very reluctant to fight a dragon (being level 3 does that to you) and the goblins haven't even offered them anything outside return of the supplies for the deed, so I strongly suspected they'd be all for it.

Not so.

They flat out refused to commit what they called murder. I have only myself to blame here for making the goblins too, well, human (not that I mind). This got the dragon understandably angry and the characters left in a hurry at this point. But not before getting a chance to explore some more of his cave, finding a statue of a dragoness of unpararelled beauty in the dragon's "lair proper."

The session ended with them coming up with a plan that, to them, is "the lesser evil." My homebrew setting has something called a Bloodoath - a ritualistic oath that once made cannot be taken back as going back on it results in the death of the oathbreaker. It's a piece of ancient magic that even the gods cannot defy. The party's plan is to threaten the dragon's most prized statue and force him into a Bloodoath to stop eating animals or killing goblins. Then force the goblin chief to make a similar Bloodoath. Now, by taking all factors into account, I have to say that they have a rather good chance of succeeding. It's a good plan (with plenty of places for a clever GM to poke holes in which makes it even better), and the whole group continually pleasantly surprised me with their level-headedness, decision making skills, and willingness to talk instead of fighting.

The problem is, the dragon won't be happy about the arrangement, the goblins won't be happy about the arrangement; the peasants will be happy, but they have nothing to give. By trying to be the "good guys" the group is cheating itself out of a significant amount of loot. So my question is, how can I reward them for their efforts without making it look contrived? Or should I - and this fits the theme of the campaign better, I must admit - let them know that being touchy-feely boyscouts doesn't put food on your table?

Mewtarthio
2007-01-28, 05:28 PM
Virtue is its own reward! ...and experience, too. Give them experience for coming up with a non-violent solution to the problem.

Thomas
2007-01-28, 05:31 PM
More experience with less treasure will just put them at a disadvantage in the long run.

I say: karma. Let them get lucky a few times. Nothing huge; just the next few treasures or rewards they get are a bit bigger (10 - 20%), so it all evens out in a level or two.

Raum
2007-01-28, 05:39 PM
The party's plan is to threaten the dragon's most prized statue and force him into a Bloodoath to stop eating animals or killing goblins. Then force the goblin chief to make a similar Bloodoath. Now, by taking all factors into account, I have to say that they have a rather good chance of succeeding. It's a good plan (with plenty of places for a clever GM to poke holes in which makes it even better), and the whole group continually pleasantly surprised me with their level-headedness, decision making skills, and willingness to talk instead of fighting.I'd recommend paying at least as much attention to the wording of a coerced oath as you would to a wish extorted out of a gated djin. But it sounds like you were already considering that. :-)


The problem is, the dragon won't be happy about the arrangement, the goblins won't be happy about the arrangement; the peasants will be happy, but they have nothing to give. By trying to be the "good guys" the group is cheating itself out of a significant amount of loot. So my question is, how can I reward them for their efforts without making it look contrived? Or should I - and this fits the theme of the campaign better, I must admit - let them know that being touchy-feely boyscouts doesn't put food on your table?Rewards don't need to be monetary all the time. At the least, they'll have a safe haven and free place to stay when traveling through the town in the future. Possibly even a good report to the town's overlord which may result in more job offers, monetary rewards if you want to go that route, or even potential titles after additional services.

Basically guess I'm saying don't give them a monetary reward, make it a social or political reward that fits the campaign & area.

Maxymiuk
2007-01-28, 05:48 PM
monetary reward, make it a social or political reward that fits the campaign & area.

I had plans for that even before the campaign got off the ground - all part of the plot. Meanwhile the loot they were going to get was my way to "sneak in" a few of the items that the party desperately needs, such as a wand of Cure Light Wounds to make up for their lack of a dedicated healer.

Diggorian
2007-01-28, 06:03 PM
I like the social reward as well as a nice XP bonus -- cause they really learn more in this adventure than you would killing a bunch of goblins. As long as their future encounters factor that they have less wealth than a similarly leveled party, it's all good.

I like your style of game. I play in one camp that's similar, where we dont have alot of wealth but rich characterization and another which is more standard D&D with lots of swag. I prefer the former much more.

ExHunterEmerald
2007-01-28, 06:05 PM
Wow. Your players are cool.
I'd give them a karmic reward, yes. Possibly a small XP bonus so they don't end up scooted up higher without the (practically) requisite magic bling to survive.

Sulecrist
2007-01-28, 06:12 PM
I've actually used that scenario before--I got it from the boards here, presumably from you. ;)

I'm going to agree with the "safe haven" reward idea. Maybe toss in a comely lass of virtue true, a guide (probably without class levels, but who knew the area) or a secret bolt-hole to retreat to (maybe a hidden cave or a basement).

I wouldn't give them anything materially valuable, though.

Whamme
2007-01-28, 06:20 PM
Go with classic fairytale good fortune. The world is clearly full of magic, right?

They stop for lunch somewhere, and see a snake cut in half get healed by another snake putting some strange leaves on the wound, and then both snakes leave the scene.

Boom. Instant 'wand of cure light wounds'. Why did they get to see this? Good karma. Those who do the right thing find friends in small places.

(I stole that from one of Grimm's Fairy Tales. Something similiar could work too).

Golthur
2007-01-28, 06:43 PM
Aside from the "safe haven" and social rewards, some reputation might be a good thing to boost their egos. Make a bard travelling through the town impressed enough by their solution to start singing it in nearby villages, or passing it around as rumours.

Nothing strokes their egos like the PCs' Gather Information rolls returning information about how great they are.

jjpickar
2007-01-28, 06:53 PM
You could make the blood oath plan fall through and have one of the sides initiate conflict which could result in much treasure to be gained. I personally like the idea of the goblins being devious and possibly trying to waylay the adventurers out of dissatisfaction with their proposed plan. Remember, goblins are not human and can be realistically played as evil and devious.

shaka gl
2007-01-28, 07:26 PM
I like your players. Mine probably would have burned down the goblin camp and then charged into the cave of the Dragon...

AmoDman
2007-01-28, 07:26 PM
The wandering bard is a good idea. CLW wand is easy. Priests caught up in the conflict are so greatful it's at an end they reward the mediators with some helpful compensation to their endeavors. This is all, of course, IF the plan goes through successfully and no one dies with loot falling through the cracks anyway.

Piedmon_Sama
2007-01-28, 08:10 PM
Wow, I wish I had players like yours. It'd be a nice change of pace, and a lot easier, to write some adventures where I don't have to take into account the fact that my PCs will be immoral mercenaries...

Weezer
2007-01-28, 08:22 PM
I take pride in being an immoral mercenary.
More on topic, give them a moderate XP bonus and more treasure from later adventures. Cool group though.

Geneticist
2007-01-28, 08:45 PM
Another solution would be to have the deity of one of the characters show up to him in a dream and commend his actions, then in the dream the character recieves equipment. when he wakes up, surprise! it was real!

Mewtarthio
2007-01-28, 09:22 PM
That won't work. Deities don't have time to compliment every person in the Prime Material Plane who does a good deed, and if they actually handed out equipment for such a relatively minor act, the Evil Deities would respond in kind for evil deeds, and everyone would have equipment, and the MAD balance that's been going on for eons gets broken, leading to a full-scale war.

...By the way, what are the limitations on that Blood Oath? It seems to me that every single kingdom in the world would be immune to treachery and desertion with such a binding contract.

AmoDman
2007-01-28, 09:52 PM
That won't work. Deities don't have time to compliment every person in the Prime Material Plane who does a good deed, and if they actually handed out equipment for such a relatively minor act, the Evil Deities would respond in kind for evil deeds, and everyone would have equipment, and the MAD balance that's been going on for eons gets broken, leading to a full-scale war.

...By the way, what are the limitations on that Blood Oath? It seems to me that every single kingdom in the world would be immune to treachery and desertion with such a binding contract.

Depends on the deity and character. Heroic demigods w/not much power and favorite promise childs tend to give out more favors (but suck more accordingly ~_^).

Jestir256
2007-01-28, 10:02 PM
Maybe you should reinterpret your factions' view of the situation. Obviously, the dragon is going to be terminally pissed at the players for extorting an oath from him, but maybe given time he'll mellow out and begin to understand that you can't just go around knocking over people's forests. Similarly, the goblins, given time, might begin to contemplate the extraordinary risks that the party has taken on their behalf, and decide that the party has in fact done the best thing possible.

In my campaign, if my players were that level-headed and contientous, I would reward them with both extra XP and "loot," although not the monetary kind. A performance as brilliant as theirs would (in my campaign) definitely attract the favorable attention of benificent powers, who would more than likely find some clever way to reward them in a way that will not only have value now, at third level, but will ALWAYS have value. This would assist both character and plot development...

...Actually, can I borrow your players?

Thomas
2007-01-29, 03:52 AM
That won't work. Deities don't have time to compliment every person in the Prime Material Plane who does a good deed, and if they actually handed out equipment for such a relatively minor act, the Evil Deities would respond in kind for evil deeds, and everyone would have equipment, and the MAD balance that's been going on for eons gets broken, leading to a full-scale war.

Eh? I certainly should think your average deity would have the power and attention span to appear in a different dream to every sleeping mortal in the world at the same time. And guiding the PCs to an existing (appropriately-sized) treasure as a reward for good actions should be fine, too.

Maxymiuk
2007-01-29, 04:58 AM
...By the way, what are the limitations on that Blood Oath? It seems to me that every single kingdom in the world would be immune to treachery and desertion with such a binding contract.

In the game, as of until recently (5 years ago or so) most of the continent was a single empire involved in a war with the elves. By Imperial law the the Bloodoath was to only be used in extreme cases such as treason, for the simple reason that once you force one person into loyalty, everyone else is suddenly afraid for their own freedom. But if you start forcing the oath on one person after another, what you get is a revolt. Though now that the elves have gone somewhere and the Empire has fragmented... who knows what will happen now.


Another solution would be to have the deity of one of the characters show up to him in a dream and commend his actions, then in the dream the character recieves equipment. when he wakes up, surprise! it was real!

The big problem with that is that my world doesn't have deities taking such an active role in the life of mortals as in typical D&D. I want to represent religion as a political body, and that would be tricky to pull off if a god (or its messenger) step down from the heavens and smack down corrupt priests.


...Actually, can I borrow your players?

Nope. As they are the first group I've ever had that doesn't actively put my sanity to trial, I think I'll be keeping them.

Wehrkind
2007-01-29, 05:12 AM
Perhaps a good trick to give them a little loot for their troubles would be to have your dragon artist pay them some.
Artists are often quite proud of their creations, and desperately need to show them off. Your dragon, notoriously arrogant creatures, wants more people to see his work so they can admire and gush over it properly. However, he doesn't know anyway to make this happen without having too many people mucking about his lair.

So, despite being pissed at being forced into an oath, he thinks the PCs obviously can appreciate great art, as they recognized the value of his favorite peice. Perhaps he decides that the PCs can act as his agents in getting him a showing in the nearest great city, and gives them some minor items from his hoard to entice them to do so. It might even be good to have him ask this as a more fair exchange for getting him to take the oath.

Indon
2007-01-29, 09:35 AM
If there's a minor noble over the peasants being saved, he might well be willing to grant a favor or two to the people who managed to fix his problem.