10 Commandments for players and DMs

[Sir Pippin Boyd]

A local gaming club I participate in is running a workshop soon where they hope to teach a lot of players and DMs some of the parts of filling those roles that the rulebooks simply do not tell you. While there are a lot of general bits of advice floating around about how to do each, I'd like to be able to present each category with 10 basic fundamental rules so basic that they should never be infringed. The kind of stuff that doesn't fall into a gray area, is pretty straightforward as a thing one Thou Shalt or Shalt Not, and regardless happens with remarkable abundance.

A few things I'm considering listing

DMs:

-- Thou Shalt Not DMPC -- NPCs may travel with the party, but you shall not consider one among them "yours", as this creates a fundamental conflict of interests.

-- Thou Shalt Not Use Fiat To Control the Player -- Each player character has his own agency, each character's agency is tied to that player. Thou Shalt Not arbitrarily force player characters to take specific actions to suit your scheme. Thou canst, however, discourage metagaming and allow characters to face the realistic in-character consequences of their unwise decisions.

-- Thou Shalt Respect Difficulty -- The relationship between Bonus and DC is one of the game's oldest and most sacred truths. While dice can fudged on rare occasion with good judgement, Thou Shalt Not completely ignore the Bonus/DC relationship and simply rule success or failure based only on the die outcome and your whims on a regular basis. While difficulties can be fine-tuned for optimal play, the concept of difficulty should not be dismissed.

-- Thou Shalt Respect Rule 0 -- Rule 0 is one of the highest and most powerful of tools of the dungeon master, and should be treated with respect and care. It shall *not* be crutch, nor an excuse not to understand rules 1 to 99.

-- Thou Shalt Strive to Have Fun -- Its why you're there, stop fighting and enjoy the game.

Players:

-- Thou Shalt Respect Thine Fellows -- You're not more important than the other players at the table. You're there to have fun, they're there to have fun, be fair to everyone. Don't steal from them, don't put them down, don't try to hog so much time in the spotlight that they don't have any opportunity to participate or contribute.

-- Thou Shalt Respect Thine DM -- Be polite and respectful to the DM. He's got a lot of work to do, and his job consists of trying to tell a story, simulate a world, keep the interest of the players, act out dozens of characters, and balance a game all at the same time. Forgive the guy if guy if he doesn't have some dazzling name for the local pub.

-- Shou Shalt Respect the Game -- Optimization is all well and good to a point, but don't try to bring Pun Pun, Jumplomancy, or Locate City Bombs to the table and then act cheated when you're not allowed to use them. Make a character that is appropriate for the game and setting. The game isn't some program that you're trying to crash.

-- Thou Shalt Strive to Have Fun -- Its worth listing twice. This. Seriously.


Anybody have anything else they feel is big enough it should be in the cut-and-dry top 10?

[ZamielVanWeber]

While many people don't like DMPCs, they are not intrinsically bad. Also, some people (DMs and players alike) enjoy high Op shenanigans. Why should they be prohibited from that as a group?

DnD is too varied a game to have any blanket rules beyond: Don't be a ****.

[Morphie]

I would just use one commandment besides the rule of fun:
- You shall decide on homerules as a group to see what's best and balanced for everyone.

Like it has been said before me, some groups might like a DMPC, some of them might hate the concept. It's all a matter of deciding together.

But I agree with most of the other commandments you wrote.

[weckar]

To players:

Thou shalt know what thine character dost and dostnot do. Thou shalt know rules specific to thine character, and keep track of thine own bonuses and penalties. If thou art a spellcaster, thou shalt have thy spell descriptions handily accessible whenever needed. For them on the front lines, thou shalt know when thou art wearing thine armour, and when thou art not. Thou shalt not change thine behavior for knowledge obtained through the meta, for that Will save truly was just the wind. Forsooth, thou shalt play fairly and expect thy DM to act justly in kind.
Amen.

[veti]

-- Thou Shalt Respect Thine Fellows -- You're not more important than the other players at the table. You're there to have fun, they're there to have fun, be fair to everyone. Don't steal from them, don't put them down, don't try to hog so much time in the spotlight that they don't have any opportunity to participate or contribute.

I think you need to be a bit clearer here about the distinction between in-game and real-life actions. Stealing from players is obviously completely out of court. But stealing from other players' PCs is all part of the fun (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0008.html).

[atomicwaffle]

Thou shalt show up consistently and on time or your reproductive organs shalt be cast into vicegrips

[KillianHawkeye]

Thou shalt show up consistently and on time or your reproductive organs shalt be cast into vicegrips

Yes, we must always be prompt and punctual to our leisurely recreational activities which we do partake in for fun and amusement. Or you could, y'know, just start without us because we probably have legitimate reasons for being late even if it happens regularly.

[shogun37]

Two very basic rules...1. Don't be a jerk. 2. Be prepared. Both in game, and out of game.

[atomicwaffle]

Yes, we must always be prompt and punctual to our leisurely recreational activities which we do partake in for fun and amusement. Or you could, y'know, just start without us because we probably have legitimate reasons for being late even if it happens regularly.

not buying it. d&d happens on average once a week. There is NO REASON you can't be on time or early with a WEEK of prep time. that's 168 hours allowing for 7 hours of rest per night. assume it takes (for whatever reason) 2 hours of transit each way. that's 164 hours of prep time. 3 meals a day at 1 hour each is ticking off another 21 hours. that's STILL 143 hours to prepare adequately. Let's of course take off 8 hours for the actual session itself, you're STILL at 135 hours to prepare for a once in a week event where you know the place and time. It takes me about 4 hours the night before and 2 hours the day, and i am not an efficient man by any means. so let's assume day prior prep takes another 10 hours. you're still at 125 hours to get ready.

IF...IF IF IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT, AT LEAST CALL THE MOTHERHUMPING DM, OR IF YOU ARE THE DM, THE ESTABLISHMENT WHERE THE SESSION IS BEING HELD, AND INFORM YOUR PLAYERS WHO USE THAT 125 HOURS TO BE READY AND ON TIME SO THEY CAN DO SOMETHING THAT ISN'T WAITING FOR YOUR INCOMPETENT DERRIERE!:smallfurious:

[veti]

not buying it. d&d happens on average once a week. There is NO REASON you can't be on time or early with a WEEK of prep time. that's 168 hours allowing for 7 hours of rest per night. assume it takes (for whatever reason) 2 hours of transit each way. that's 164 hours of prep time. 3 meals a day at 1 hour each is ticking off another 21 hours. that's STILL 143 hours to prepare adequately. Let's of course take off 8 hours for the actual session itself, you're STILL at 135 hours to prepare for a once in a week event where you know the place and time. It takes me about 4 hours the night before and 2 hours the day, and i am not an efficient man by any means. so let's assume day prior prep takes another 10 hours. you're still at 125 hours to get ready.

I think you need to get some more sleep. 7 hours of rest a night brings your weekly hours down to 119. Then there's 9 hours of work a day, including travel time, for five days - 74. Time to cook, eat and clean up after meals - let's say 4 hours a day, leaving 46. Sundry personal hygiene tasks, including laundry - another 1 hour a day. 39. And we haven't even started on getting a social or family life yet.

[Todasmile]

I think you need to get some more sleep. 7 hours of rest a night brings your weekly hours down to 119. Then there's 9 hours of work a day, including travel time, for five days - 74. Time to cook, eat and clean up after meals - let's say 4 hours a day, leaving 46. Sundry personal hygiene tasks, including laundry - another 1 hour a day. 39. And we haven't even started on getting a social or family life yet.

DnD is love.

DnD is life.

[TuggyNE]

You might be able to gain some inspiration from a previous project of a similar bent.

[Crake]

While many people don't like DMPCs, they are not intrinsically bad. Also, some people (DMs and players alike) enjoy high Op shenanigans. Why should they be prohibited from that as a group?

DnD is too varied a game to have any blanket rules beyond: Don't be a ****.

Nowhere in the post did it say not to optimize, it said to make characters appropriate to the game and setting. if the game and setting is high op, then a high op character is appropriate, no?

[Grollub]

I would start off with a few basics:

Rule 1 : thou must bathe before coming to a public game

Rule 2: thou must bring all the stuff you need for the game ( dice, books, pencil, etc )

Rule 3: thou must be social/ friendly within the group

[BWR]

You shall not try to use versions of the language if you don't know how to use it properly. Be this archaic forms, non-standard accents and dialects or different registers. If you can put some effort beforehand into getting it right, fine, but if you do it on the fly and end up with some drivel that is horribly wrong and sounds bad you are better off just saying "he talks with a weird accent and uses a lot of words you don't know" than trying to sound like a Glaswegian Sir Humphrey on a monologue.

[Theomniadept]

Here's one rule: Thou shalt not change the rules by removing content from the game.

Too often I've seen this happen and as we all know this really only hurts nonmagic classes.

[TypoNinja]

While many people don't like DMPCs, they are not intrinsically bad. Also, some people (DMs and players alike) enjoy high Op shenanigans. Why should they be prohibited from that as a group?

DnD is too varied a game to have any blanket rules beyond: Don't be a ****.

I would (and have) argued that a DMPC is intrinsically bad. Even if you pull it off well, and your players enjoyed the game, they do so in spite of it. A DMPC is more drain on a DM's already limited time and attention, dividing it further is always a negative.



I'd say as an addition to rule one for players, make a character that works. Your Chaotic Evil Pyromaniac Assassin might not go over so well at at a table full of Lawful and/or Good.

I've suffered more than once with a completely unsuitable character while the rest of the party meshes just fine, and then of course you are the jerk at the table for trying to ditch/kill the crazy evil guy after he tried to burn down a town for the fun of it....

[Sewercop]

Use rule 0 to rule 0 it away. There is no need for it.
Decide on the rules of the group before playing.

If a problem arise in the game that is not coverd by the rules, make a temporary ruling for that session. Then as a group decide what your houserule will be in the future for that rule.
If the problem is so big that it affects characters in a profound way, deal with it then and there. If the players know the rules concerning their characters(as they should by default imo), problems will arise seldom.

We play by a simple rule.
Break it once, then we fix it.
Then you have one time to shine like a supernova.

[KillianHawkeye]

not buying it. d&d happens on average once a week. There is NO REASON you can't be on time or early with a WEEK of prep time. that's 168 hours allowing for 7 hours of rest per night. assume it takes (for whatever reason) 2 hours of transit each way. that's 164 hours of prep time. 3 meals a day at 1 hour each is ticking off another 21 hours. that's STILL 143 hours to prepare adequately. Let's of course take off 8 hours for the actual session itself, you're STILL at 135 hours to prepare for a once in a week event where you know the place and time. It takes me about 4 hours the night before and 2 hours the day, and i am not an efficient man by any means. so let's assume day prior prep takes another 10 hours. you're still at 125 hours to get ready.

IF...IF IF IF YOU CAN'T MAKE IT, AT LEAST CALL THE MOTHERHUMPING DM, OR IF YOU ARE THE DM, THE ESTABLISHMENT WHERE THE SESSION IS BEING HELD, AND INFORM YOUR PLAYERS WHO USE THAT 125 HOURS TO BE READY AND ON TIME SO THEY CAN DO SOMETHING THAT ISN'T WAITING FOR YOUR INCOMPETENT DERRIERE!:smallfurious:

Really? You're not buying that I have legitimate reasons for being late? YOU REALLY WANNA GO THERE?? :smallannoyed:

Okay, how about this: I work at night. My D&D sessions start at noon on Sundays. (Used to be 2-3 PM, but earlier works better for more people in the group.) If I wanna get any sleep at all, I cannot leave my house at 11 AM after getting home from work at 5. So yeah, I am usually about an hour late to D&D which is a game I play for fun in my spare time.

So instead of being a jerkass and making assumptions of which you are WRONG about, just DEAL with the fact that not everybody devotes every moment of their time to their once-a-week pastime. It's not about preparation or competence. Some people just have lives that don't revolve around D&D! *gasp* *SHOCK* *no really*

And if you don't like it, you can take a long walk of a short pier for all I care! :smallmad:

Maybe when you get out of high school you will understand that there is more to life than your all-important fantasy world.

[weckar]

Well, no offense meant of course, but if a player consistently arrives an hour late because of need.... why not start an hour later?

[KillianHawkeye]

Well, no offense meant of course, but if a player consistently arrives an hour late because of need.... why not start an hour later?

Because I'm not the only player. This is a group activity, remember?

[weckar]

Yeah, of course. I'd just think it'd be more convenient for everyone involved, is all. Just saying, as a DM it's definitely something I would at least propose.

[Hopeless]

Be consistant so when one week you have one of your players crit a perception check and gains an AoO on a diving dragon about to breath on the party and their response is to use Control Water (Cleric) to create a wall of water in front of said dragon whilst moving the entire party out of harms way you don't then claim the dragon wasn't surprised and after managing to plunge through said wall of water continue to breath on the party and fly off ignoring the fact it should either be trying to remain airborne or breathing as it crashlands...

And then when the same spell is cast again a few weeks later decide to completely change how it works...

Having a 2e scenario used in a 3.0 game where you age the cleric 60 years and although you had a copy of his character sheet you don't point out their physical ability decrease doesn't result in a mental ability increase thereby screwing up over a year of game play and decisions because you decide that has made him too powerful (it didn't, but multiclassing because of the change wouldn't have happened if he made that clear then and then deliberately saying noone was available to cast the 8th level or so spell required to reverse the change when they have access to the funds to get it cast is taking the mickey!)

When you run a game and declare the rules on character creation you don't then give another player a vastly more powerful character and then introduce a dmnpc because you couldn't be bothered to create and run a game properly.

Sorry but the bold part sounds about right for these!

[Taelas]

I would (and have) argued that a DMPC is intrinsically bad. Even if you pull it off well, and your players enjoyed the game, they do so in spite of it. A DMPC is more drain on a DM's already limited time and attention, dividing it further is always a negative.

I regularly run DMPCs -- which I define as a character created by the same rules as the players, but controlled by the DM -- and have never had it be an issue for my players. Our group is small and one of the players and I rotate being the DM. Rather than have my PC disappear whenever I DM, which upsets the group balance, my PC becomes mostly an NPC for the duration. (No input on tactics, etc.) Same thing for the other DM.

[KillianHawkeye]

Yeah, of course. I'd just think it'd be more convenient for everyone involved, is all. Just saying, as a DM it's definitely something I would at least propose.

We are already doing what's most convenient for the majority of the group. I am the only one who is having to compromise game time. And that is as it should be. The needs of the many, etc.

I am merely objecting to the stance that being late is some kind of cardinal sin, and the idea that there is NO REASON to ever be late to gaming because D&D is totes srs bsns. :smallsigh:

Maybe there's such a thing as casual gamers, who just wanna punch some goblins and fireball orc on the weekend? Not every group plays the same. Sometimes REAL FRIGGIN LIFE gets in the way of leisurely activities, including group activities like roleplaying.

[Brookshw]

Because I'm not the only player. This is a group activity, remember?

A player who routinely has a reason to join a bit later is not a late player. That can be planned for. A phone call is not out of line and is common courtesy if its not already something expected.

[killem2]

stopped after DMPC. :smallsigh:

Don't talk what apparently you don't have experience with. If you can't handle using a DMPC fine, but calling it a commandment is ridiculous.


I would (and have) argued that a DMPC is intrinsically bad. Even if you pull it off well, and your players enjoyed the game, they do so in spite of it. A DMPC is more drain on a DM's already limited time and attention, dividing it further is always a negative.

What a load. http://forums.randi.org/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I HAVE pulled it off. I've used a DMPC with 5 other player characters sitting at the table at one time. I wasn't some no name NPC that was just playing janitor or baby sitter.

No, I was a contributing, full fledged player. I don't know what kind of players you play with, or the ones in which you have derived this notion from, but my players loved my DMPC, they had zero issues with it.

The only players that will ever find a need to do any of the things you are talking about, for the DM playing a PC, is because they are immature and petty. Nothing more nothing less.

Now, I have absolutely no issue with folks telling people to shy away from a PC driven by the DM, because of the absolute mental requirements it takes to do so, that at the very least is a sound and logical argument.

I played a DMPC from the get go, because in 2nd edition MY DM did the same thing, we didn't care, we didn't see any issue with it. It's wasn't until I came here that apparently there was some taboo about it, (which is laughable).

Outside of tiers, it's the only thing that really boils my blood about d&d.

[jjcrpntr]

I'd add a few from my perspective.

Players:

Know your character. If you're constantly having to have abilities explained to you, you're doing it wrong. If you have to flip through sheets every single round to figure out what your attack bonus is, you're doing it wrong.

Handle your character in the off time. One of the most annoying things for me is when we level up, and the next week people show up to play at 5 and we spend an hour for a few people to do their level up and research feats ect. I don't expect people to memorize the books but it's not that hard to send out an email to the group asking for suggestions and having stuff ready in advance.

[Telonius]

For everyone:
Thou shalt not attempt to use in-game solutions to solve out-of-game problems.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Nowhere in the post did it say not to optimize, it said to make characters appropriate to the game and setting. if the game and setting is high op, then a high op character is appropriate, no?

I missed that line totally; oops. I still maintain that blanket rules fot a game like DnD will not work. I do not like DMPCs while killem2 does not mind them at all. Some DMs have fully developed worlds where stuff is legal/illegal based on setting. Others have a more laissez faire character building standard. The "work together to have fun" is only of the only parts that I can consistently agree with.

Edit: the two above me I can solidly get behind.

[nedz]

You only need one commandment.
There is only one way to play this game; and that's your own way.

[zephyrkinetic]

I'm afraid game groups are too varied to have commandments the way you're proposing. I might propose Seven Deadly Sins, though:

I - Metagaming
II - Drama
III - Innebriation
IV - Lawyering
V - Indulgence
VI - Fun-Sucking
VII - Egotism

For quick clarification:
1. Don't use OoC knowledge in-game. Period. That's just bad form.
2. Typically, in-game drama is fine. OoC, knock it off. If you can't play nice for a few hours a week, find other arrangements.
3. I don't know about you guys, but we have beers when we play. No getting trashed, just enough to grease the RP wheels.
4. Saying something works/doesn't work on a technicality is pedantic, but is sometimes worthwhile. Insisting, arguing, or taking a ton of time to look things up is infuriating.
5. This is mostly for the DM, but can apply to all: no insisting that your wants are the only ones that matter, whether explicitly or through implication.
6. It's a game. Fun should be the primary goal. If something you're about to do will ruin the fun, stop doing whatever you were about to do.
7. You are not the "main character." There is no "main character." Don't try to make the rest of the party your supporting cast.

[kirerellim]

I like the seven deadly sins lol

[KorbeltheReader]

Thou shalt not steal from nor charm thy fellow PCs, for that is the way to inter-player drama, PvP, and the premature end of the game group.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Depends on the group though. I actually had to Charm a team mate once. Doing it amliciously is always a bad idea though.

[Particle_Man]

You shall not try to use versions of the language if you don't know how to use it properly. Be this archaic forms, non-standard accents and dialects or different registers. If you can put some effort beforehand into getting it right, fine, but if you do it on the fly and end up with some drivel that is horribly wrong and sounds bad you are better off just saying "he talks with a weird accent and uses a lot of words you don't know" than trying to sound like a Glaswegian Sir Humphrey on a monologue.

Given the "Thou" language of the OP and many posters, I find this one hilarious. :smallsmile:

But I will do myself anyhow. :smallbiggrin:

Thou shalt discuss with the group exactly what illusions can, and cannot, do in this game.

Thou shalt discuss with the group exactly what the alignments do, and do not, mean, in this game.

Thou shalt discuss with the group exactly what would, and would not, cause a paladin to lose their paladinhood, whether temporarily or permanently.

Thou shalt agree on a the general theme and setting of the game (noir, shades of grey, black and white morality, mostly seaside, mostly urban, mostly dungeon, wandering in the wilderness, spelljamming, magic is common, magic is rare, monsters are EVIL, monsters are people too, primitive, civilized, points of light, kingdom of light, paladins and princesses, sword and sorcery, etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.,)