Help killing vampires (3.5)

[atomicwaffle]

So, my DM decided that vampires were too easy to fight (kind of the premise i had too, was looking forward to something not TOO difficult)and beefed up an encounter. Long story short we survived, but the vampire(s) teleported out for another encounter (joy) probably going on tomorrow. He's already established that the head vampire is a dwarven fighter about lvl 14, and at least 4 other vampires, one of which was able to cast dimension door to escape, with their coffins, which are protected by various wards as well as what i'm pretty sure is a vampire blackguard (one of our former friends who died about a year ago). Now we have to find them.

I'm the highest level character (cleric 3 wizard 3 mystic theurge 8) specialized as transmuter, banned abjuration and illusion. We got a pyro sorcerer 8 or 9 i think (usually doesn't show up), werewolf barbarian 11 (usually shows up), gnome wizard 12 or 13(sometimes shows up), and a halfling optimized dagger thrower 9 - 10ish (always shows up along with me).

I was thinking of scrying to find where they went, but i can't think of anything else beyond lots of fire and searing light. The first encounter we almost died because to get through a wall the gnome convinced us to do so by going to the realm of shadow. We fought 2 dreadwraiths. He forgot that time passes differently in the realm of shadow so the aforementioned suspected blackguard regenerated. And we were crippled for the encounter. Oh, and before that we fought a mummy and a mummy lord, and a room with 30 ghasts. thank god for fireball.

Help me power of the internet, you're my only hope. what do i prepare and how do i rid the world of this evil?

aside: the gnome is a coward and contingency'ed out of the final vampire fight. I was pissed. That is the 3rd time that sumbitch left me to die as far as my character is concerned. I'm a chaotic good follower of kord.

[Cikomyr]

Vampires are too easy to fight?


MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahhahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :smallbiggrin:

[Grayson01]

The Daylight spell would help. Deathward would be nice. Do you by chance have the Sun Devotion Feat? Divine Vengence? Undeath to Death if you have enough of a DC. Dimensional Ancor to Stop them from fleeing and your pecky Gnomb friend from Peacing on you. You could Cast Daylight on a pebble lock them down with Dimensional Ancor then Wall of stone them in a corner with the pebble. If the are all in their coffens you could Cast wall of stone so it is not ancored to the floor then everyone pushes it over so it lands on the coffens and then traps them in their coffens. Transmute Stone to Mud fill up the room their coffens are in then Transmute mud back to Stone so they are trapped in their coffens. Those are all I can think of with out my books.

[Crake]

The Daylight spell would help. Deathward would be nice. Do you by chance have the Sun Devotion Feat? Divine Vengence? Undeath to Death if you have enough of a DC. Dimensional Ancor to Stop them from fleeing and your pecky Gnomb friend from Peacing on you. You could Cast Daylight on a pebble lock them down with Dimensional Ancor then Wall of stone them in a corner with the pebble. If the are all in their coffens you could Cast wall of stone so it is not ancored to the floor then everyone pushes it over so it lands on the coffens and then traps them in their coffens. Transmute Stone to Mud fill up the room their coffens are in then Transmute mud back to Stone so they are trapped in their coffens. Those are all I can think of with out my books.

You know daylight doesn't affect vampires like proper sunlight does, right? You can't kill a vampire just by exposing them to the level 3 spell, daylight.

[incarnate236]

Magic Circle Against Evil to nerf their summons and dominate, polymorph into Treant with greater mage armor, haste, etc to get 15 ft reach on the Black guard and fighter. The other characters could keep the majority of vamps at bay with mirrors (seriously for some reason it works) while a caster engages them from a distance or you make full attacks with the Treant form to vamps that just can't get close enough to hit you. Dimensional Anchors all around.

[Ramza00]

Vampires are too easy to fight?

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahhahaHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :smallbiggrin:

Agreed, if the DM was really evil he would make the vampires also be bat lycanthropes with 10 extra HD of Dire Bat for +4 CR.


10 HD of Dire Bat gives Str +8 (you advanced the 17 str to 18 due to hd 8), Dex +12, Con +0 (due to undead); +5 Base NA, Blindsense 40ft. Also a flight speed without being in gaseous form
+5 to the save dc of the domination due to the additional HD
+5 Initiator Level due to HD
+65 Additional HP (10 HD with d12 for each hd)
10 more levels of Good Fort, Reflex, and Will saves (so that means up to +7 more if you are not using fractional saves or +5 more if you are using fractional saves), plus Iron Will as well for another +2 to Will Saves
10 more levels of skill points increasing your maximums (though you only get 2+ skills per level)
+7.5 BAB

all for only +4 CR :smallwink:

The were bats can stay in human form the entire time and you wouldn't know the difference, all you know is they hit a lot harder than what a normal 4 level increase of something normal like warblade or fighter.

So be glad your DM is not really evil.

[LogosDragon]

I fail to see what he did that actually made them tougher aside from them being more numerous and overbearing for you guys' character levels.

Get yourself a Cleric's help (or just grab yourself a Holy Symbol) and/or stay near some fast-flowing water. They'll run out of methods to -port over the water eventually.

[Grayson01]

You know daylight doesn't affect vampires like proper sunlight does, right? You can't kill a vampire just by exposing them to the level 3 spell, daylight.

Yes I know It does not kill them but it does have some effect.

[Dr. Cliché]

Agreed, if the DM was really evil he would make the vampires also be bat lycanthropes with 10 extra HD of Dire Bat for +4 CR.


10 HD of Dire Bat gives Str +8 (you advanced the 17 str to 18 due to hd 8), Dex +12, Con +0 (due to undead); +5 Base NA, Blindsense 40ft. Also a flight speed without being in gaseous form
+5 to the save dc of the domination due to the additional HD
+5 Initiator Level due to HD
+65 Additional HP (10 HD with d12 for each hd)
10 more levels of Good Fort, Reflex, and Will saves (so that means up to +7 more if you are not using fractional saves or +5 more if you are using fractional saves), plus Iron Will as well for another +2 to Will Saves
10 more levels of skill points increasing your maximums (though you only get 2+ skills per level)
+7.5 BAB

all for only +4 CR :smallwink:

The were bats can stay in human form the entire time and you wouldn't know the difference, all you know is they hit a lot harder than what a normal 4 level increase of something normal like warblade or fighter.

So be glad your DM is not really evil.

Hmm?

Oh, don't mind me - I'll just take this and be on my way. :smallwink:

[Cikomyr]

Agreed, if the DM was really evil he would make the vampires also be bat lycanthropes with 10 extra HD of Dire Bat for +4 CR.


10 HD of Dire Bat gives Str +8 (you advanced the 17 str to 18 due to hd 8), Dex +12, Con +0 (due to undead); +5 Base NA, Blindsense 40ft. Also a flight speed without being in gaseous form
+5 to the save dc of the domination due to the additional HD
+5 Initiator Level due to HD
+65 Additional HP (10 HD with d12 for each hd)
10 more levels of Good Fort, Reflex, and Will saves (so that means up to +7 more if you are not using fractional saves or +5 more if you are using fractional saves), plus Iron Will as well for another +2 to Will Saves
10 more levels of skill points increasing your maximums (though you only get 2+ skills per level)
+7.5 BAB

all for only +4 CR :smallwink:

The were bats can stay in human form the entire time and you wouldn't know the difference, all you know is they hit a lot harder than what a normal 4 level increase of something normal like warblade or fighter.

So be glad your DM is not really evil.

Not my point. It's just that Vampires are really terrifying opponent if they fight smart.

[Anxe]

How much garlic are you using?

The answer is always, NOT ENOUGH!

MORE GARLIC!

[Dr. Cliché]

Not my point. It's just that Vampires are really terrifying opponent if they fight smart.

Would it be fair to say that the same applies to most monsters with a lot of activated abilities?

[Cikomyr]

Would it be fair to say that the same applies to most monsters with a lot of activated abilities?

Indeed.

I think Spoony says it best. (http://spoonyexperiment.com/counter-monkey/counter-monkey-circle-strafe/)

Dragons don't fight fair
Dragons cheat
Dragons will abuse their advantage to remain on top


same with Vampires. Their lair will be designed to optimize their powers, minimize their weaknesses. They will have reinforced plating near the heart. They will have holes everywhere in their lair to escape and move around, and double it as poison gas spreader. They will have rooms impossible to access except through a gaseous form (even magic).

[Dr. Cliché]

Indeed.

I think Spoony says it best. (http://spoonyexperiment.com/counter-monkey/counter-monkey-circle-strafe/)

Dragons don't fight fair
Dragons cheat
Dragons will abuse their advantage to remain on top


That's a great video. :smallbiggrin:


same with Vampires. Their lair will be designed to optimize their powers, minimize their weaknesses. They will have reinforced plating near the heart. They will have holes everywhere in their lair to escape and move around, and double it as poison gas spreader. They will have rooms impossible to access except through a gaseous form (even magic).

If a Vampire is going to be surrounded almost entirely by undead, he could have a pretty brutal fortress. e.g. Contact poison on all door handles, several rooms filled with Cloudkill or other poisonous gas.

The players could even come across a strangely non-lethal room (where he meets the occasional living guest). :smallwink:

[shylocke]

See if your DM will allow you to buy a blessed decanter of endless water( custom item. Prolly would be a church relic) then turn it onto geyser and have fun.

[Cikomyr]

Why need it blessed?

It technically counts as "running water", which is extremely dangerous to vamps. Just flood his lair

[Dawgmoah]

If a Vampire is going to be surrounded almost entirely by undead, he could have a pretty brutal fortress. e.g. Contact poison on all door handles, several rooms filled with Cloudkill or other poisonous gas.

The players could even come across a strangely non-lethal room (where he meets the occasional living guest). :smallwink:

I'll put undead, the smarter ones anyway, in places that are rather hostile to life: be it in a cavern system full of bad air (did you pack the canary?) or in a nice cottage.... on a mountain peak at least 15,0000 feet up.

Why would intelligent undead lair in places where the average air-breather can easily go? Volcanoes or other places venting hazardous gases are also good choices.

[shylocke]

Why need it blessed?

It technically counts as "running water", which is extremely dangerous to vamps. Just flood his lair

Because holy water is like acid to undead. Also I don't think DND rules count the whole can't cross running water malarky.

[shylocke]

That's a great video. :smallbiggrin:



If a Vampire is going to be surrounded almost entirely by undead, he could have a pretty brutal fortress. e.g. Contact poison on all door handles, several rooms filled with Cloudkill or other poisonous gas.

The players could even come across a strangely non-lethal room (where he meets the occasional living guest). :smallwink:

You would need to keep the cloudkill rooms empty or get acid resistant undead.

[Cikomyr]

Because holy water is like acid to undead. Also I don't think DND rules count the whole can't cross running water malarky.

I don't think you can have a magical item that produces water to produce holy water. Since, you know, the water comes directly from the Plane of Water.

Also, what you call "malarky" is an classical part of the Vampire mythos.

Finally, I remember that in previous editions, the simple fact of being IMMERSED in water would easily kill vamps.

[shylocke]

I don't think you can have a magical item that produces water to produce holy water. Since, you know, the water comes directly from the Plane of Water.

Also, what you call "malarky" is an classical part of the Vampire mythos.

Finally, I remember that in previous editions, the simple fact of being IMMERSED in water would easily kill vamps.

I remember the immersion rule. I call it malarky because I can't figure out if its the cant willing cross running water or if crossing it kills them.

[Cikomyr]

I remember the immersion rule. I call it malarky because I can't figure out if its the cant willing cross running water or if crossing it kills them.

Really, it's up tot he GM's interpretation. But if you follow Dracula's original book, I'd say it merely paralyses them and thus have to be carried while they are resting.

[shylocke]

Really, it's up tot he GM's interpretation. But if you follow Dracula's original book, I'd say it merely paralyses them and thus have to be carried while they are resting.

I haven't read that book in years. damn gypsies helping undead.

[shylocke]

I don't think you can have a magical item that produces water to produce holy water. Since, you know, the water comes directly from the Plane of Water.

Thus making it a church relic or artifact from some saint.

[BrokenChord]

You would need to keep the cloudkill rooms empty or get acid resistant undead.

Undead tend to have no Con score, and the idea was contact poison, not acid, which most undead are in fact immune to. So both of those concerns are, thankfully, nonexistent.

[Cikomyr]

I haven't read that book in years. damn gypsies helping undead.

AFAIK, they were helping him get away from their land.

Can't really blame them, now, can't we?

[Xelbiuj]

How much garlic are you using?

The answer is always, NOT ENOUGH!

MORE GARLIC!

This a my motto when I cook!

Just started watching Spoony's videos, he's totally right about dragons. And other creatures.

[Cikomyr]

Undead tend to have no Con score, and the idea was contact poison, not acid, which most undead are in fact immune to. So both of those concerns are, thankfully, nonexistent.

Or make a metric ton of cold damage. Undeads are immune anyway, so..

[shylocke]

AFAIK, they were helping him get away from their land.

Can't really blame them, now, can't we?

Then they bring him home at the end of it. I remember parts of it and iirc he had a whole clan of them sworn to him

[Cikomyr]

Thus making it a church relic or artifact from some saint.

No offense, but if the Modus operandi is to have recourse to a gamebreaker artifact, I think the game is somehow broken :smallwink:

[Cikomyr]

Then they bring him home at the end of it. I remember parts of it and iirc he had a whole clan of them sworn to him

that's what +4 to Charisma will do to you..

But they had little choice, really. If you live litterally next door to Sauron and nobody has come to your help for hundreds of years, there's little you can do but serve the guy.

Especially if you are outcast in every other societies.

[shylocke]

Undead tend to have no Con score, and the idea was contact poison, not acid, which most undead are in fact immune to. So both of those concerns are, thankfully, nonexistent.

son of a... My old DM was making it do 1d6 HP DMG instead of 1d4 con.

[Dr. Cliché]

I don't think you can have a magical item that produces water to produce holy water. Since, you know, the water comes directly from the Plane of Water.

Hmm, new idea - get a priest to bless the plane of water! :smallbiggrin:

[shylocke]

that's what +4 to Charisma will do to you..

But they had little choice, really. If you live litterally next door to Sauron and nobody has come to your help for hundreds of years, there's little you can do but serve the guy.

Especially if you are outcast in every other societies.

True. But I think drac would have over 18 cha by that point. He was pretty influential before he got thirsty

[Cikomyr]

Hmm, new idea - get a priest to bless the plane of water! :smallbiggrin:

:smallconfused:

The closest I would give you is if you design a contraption where the water has to pass through the Plane of Positive Energy before reaching the magic item

[Lord Vukodlak]

Why would intelligent undead lair in places where the average air-breather can easily go? Volcanoes or other places venting hazardous gases are also good choices.
Because many intelligent undead feed on air-breathers and thus need to live close enough to a community to feed. How happy would you be if you lived two or three hours from your fridge?


Or make a metric ton of cold damage. Undeads are immune anyway, so..

Some skeletal undead are immune to cold but most undead are simply resistant or have no special defense against cold damage.


Magic Circle Against Evil to nerf their summons and dominate.

Magic Circle Against Evil will help with the dominate but it be useless for the summons because the creatures are called not summoned.

[Cikomyr]

True. But I think drac would have over 18 cha by that point. He was pretty influential before he got thirsty

No kidding. He successfully intimidated the entire Ottoman army :smalleek:

[shylocke]

No kidding. He successfully intimidated the entire Ottoman army :smalleek:

Well he chose a fairly effective method. A psychopath will dismember his prisoners within sight of the enemy. A crazy person will slaughter ten percent of his own people to make the worlds most effective authorized personel only sign.

[shylocke]

Atomicwaffle. Sorry for the rambling of off topic vampirism.

[Slipperychicken]

I don't think you can have a magical item that produces water to produce holy water. Since, you know, the water comes directly from the Plane of Water.

Just give hook the decanter of endless water up to an item which continuously casts Bless Water. Or make it a spellclock of Bless Water.

Or make a version of the decanter which hooks up to the bottom layer of celestia instead. That plane has an infinite sea of holy water.

[shylocke]

Just give hook the decanter of endless water up to an item which continuously casts Bless Water. Or make it a spellclock of Bless Water.

Or make a version of the decanter which hooks up to the bottom layer of celestia instead. That plane has an infinite sea of holy water.

That would work. Or even to a part of the water plane that is controlled by a good deity.

[Brookshw]

Agreed, if the DM was really evil he would make the vampires also be bat lycanthropes with 10 extra HD of Dire Bat for +4 CR.


10 HD of Dire Bat gives Str +8 (you advanced the 17 str to 18 due to hd 8), Dex +12, Con +0 (due to undead); +5 Base NA, Blindsense 40ft. Also a flight speed without being in gaseous form
+5 to the save dc of the domination due to the additional HD
+5 Initiator Level due to HD
+65 Additional HP (10 HD with d12 for each hd)
10 more levels of Good Fort, Reflex, and Will saves (so that means up to +7 more if you are not using fractional saves or +5 more if you are using fractional saves), plus Iron Will as well for another +2 to Will Saves
10 more levels of skill points increasing your maximums (though you only get 2+ skills per level)
+7.5 BAB

all for only +4 CR :smallwink:

The were bats can stay in human form the entire time and you wouldn't know the difference, all you know is they hit a lot harder than what a normal 4 level increase of something normal like warblade or fighter.

So be glad your DM is not really evil.

Okay, what am I missing here, didn't think undead were a valid target for the template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lycanthrope.htm)?


How much garlic are you using?

The answer is always, NOT ENOUGH!

MORE GARLIC!

How on earth did you get a copy of my cookbook? :smalleek:

[shylocke]

Be a were bat then become vampire.

[Magesmiley]

1. Get a portable hole.
2. Fill portable hole with holy water.
3. Lay out portable hole on battlefield.
4. Bull Rush vampire into portable hole.*
5. Close/Pick up portable hole.

* Telekinesis, or some of the Bigby's Hand spells may also be suitable for this step.

[Lord Vukodlak]

1. Get a portable hole.
2. Fill portable hole with holy water.
3. Lay out portable hole on battlefield.
4. Bull Rush vampire into portable hole.*
5. Close/Pick up portable hole.

* Telekinesis, or some of the Bigby's Hand spells may also be suitable for this step.
Cost to fill a portable hole with holy water 423,013.25gp

[Cikomyr]

1. Get a portable hole.
2. Fill portable hole with holy water.
3. Lay out portable hole on battlefield.
4. Bull Rush vampire into portable hole.*
5. Close/Pick up portable hole.

* Telekinesis, or some of the Bigby's Hand spells may also be suitable for this step.

Vampire turns into mist before you can push him anywhere he doesn't want to be.
Vampire dominates an NPC you access to figure your plan earlier

Vamps are clever mothersuckers, and they aren't going to let you run your fancy plans without trying to get the initiative.

[Magesmiley]

Cost to fill a portable hole with holy water 423,013.25gp

No one asked for cost to do this, just ideas. :) And it is effective if you can afford the holy water.

Of course, you might put something else in there. Green slime is pretty cheap. It might require making the hole proof against the goo, but it has the merit of being useful against other stuff too. The downside is that any loot on the vampire is toast. A black pudding in the hole might also work.


Vampire turns into mist before you can push him anywhere he doesn't want to be.
Vampire dominates an NPC you access to figure your plan earlier

Vamps are clever mothersuckers, and they aren't going to let you run your fancy plans without trying to get the initiative.

As far as a vampire being ready for something like this, timing is key. If the vampire doesn't have a ready action to change, he's in trouble. One person to lay down the hole, a second to bull rush, a third to pick it up. It isn't that hard to get three actions in a row for a party.

Remember to think outside of the box. Particularly when facing hard encounters.

[Lord Vukodlak]

No one asked for cost to do this, just ideas. :) And it is effective if you can afford the holy water.

No its not effective the costs prohibits the effectiveness because for a fraction of that cost you could employ far more effective means of fighting vampires.