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View Full Version : Has anyone ever used the Hecatoncheires?



Mewtarthio
2007-01-28, 05:55 PM
Ah, yes, the Hecatoncheires. The big grandaddy of abominations. The guy with 100 attacks in a full attack (unless you're smaller than Large). The colossal Outsider with a ridiculous CR of 57. Now, I was wondering how exactly one comes up with a CR of 57. Did the people at Wizards spend a bunch of testing time coming up with parties around levels 55-60 to see how well they worked? 57 doesn't seem like a very arbitrary number, but it also seems so ridiculously high that I can't imagine anyone ever playing at that level. So, tell me, has anyone ever actually fought the Hecatoncheires or used it in a fight in an actual campaign (eg not as an example in a CO contest or as a one-off fight)? Has anyone used it in some other manner? And is the CR of 57 really that accurate?

Luircin
2007-01-28, 06:04 PM
Honestly, I'm not sure it matters. At epic levels, CR pretty much falls apart, as a creative and well-prepared party will have the right tools to take down almost any foe (By which I mean epic spellcasting). +50 DC +50 to overcome SR kill spell anyone? Only 20,000 XP to cast, plus d6s of backlash to taste. Don't even need Leadership.

The Dirge
2007-01-28, 06:10 PM
You could use it in a campain like this: It is headed for a castle/village/whatever you need to stop it in x rounds. In y rounds, the castle/village mages will have enough time to banish it. Note that you dont have to kill it to stop it, just distract it long enough so that the people in the castle/village can cast the spell.

Or the encounter could go like this:
Drizzit/wandering dwarven clan/rival demon/mages guild/ local watchmen come to your aid.

Or a mishmash of both. Tell me what you think.

Mewtarthio
2007-01-28, 06:17 PM
Honestly, I'm not sure it matters. At epic levels, CR pretty much falls apart, as a creative and well-prepared party will have the right tools to take down almost any foe (By which I mean epic spellcasting). +50 DC +50 to overcome SR kill spell anyone? Only 20,000 XP to cast, plus d6s of backlash to taste. Don't even need Leadership.

That's exactly my question: Where do they get the number 57?

EDIT: That, and I'm curious as to whether anyone's actually used the thing.

The Dirge
2007-01-28, 06:22 PM
The method I proposed was used in a friends game but in the end they disobeyed the DM's rules and used cheese because the DM let them prepare for 3 game months.

Douglas
2007-01-28, 06:23 PM
Probably some formula based largely on guesswork that involves its hit dice, number of extra attacks, and special abilities. The funny thing about it to me is that a single fighter of level equal to its CR could have enough DR from taking the epic Damage Reduction feat a lot to be completely invulnerable to it without even needing equipment.

Rigeld2
2007-01-28, 06:27 PM
I dont get it either...
If a creature summons something, that summon is counted into its CR, right?
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/wormThatWalks.htm
Can summon any of
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/devastationVermin.htm
in addition to being a level 23 Wizard (without Epic Spellcasting, sadly).
And is *half* the CR of the Hecawhatever?

Malachite
2007-01-28, 06:37 PM
The funny thing about it to me is that a single fighter of level equal to its CR could have enough DR from taking the epic Damage Reduction feat a lot to be completely invulnerable to it without even needing equipment.


Finally! The fighter wins! :smallbiggrin:

Grug
2007-01-28, 06:40 PM
You think that's bad? The monster with the highest CR EVER is the Sphinx, as seen in Dragon magazine in the epic level issue. He counts as an epic golem that's cr 100! Has a +70 attack roll and a special ability to automatically kill whatever he hits twice.

MeklorIlavator
2007-01-28, 06:43 PM
where is this monster found?

Mewtarthio
2007-01-28, 07:01 PM
Epic Level Handbook, and the Epic SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/abomination.htm#hecatoncheires). It's based off a monster (actually, an entire army of monsters) from Greek mythology with one hundred arms and one hundred heads. The were the children of Gaia and Uranus, imprisoned within Tartarus by their father, which led to Gaia ordering her son Cronus (one of the Titans) to castrate Uranus. Zeus (son of Cronus) later freed the Hecatoncheires as allies in his war against Atlas and the Titans. Following the war, they guarded the imprisoned Titans within Tartarus.

Demented
2007-01-28, 07:03 PM
Hmm. Most monsters in the OGL have a CR around where the Hit Dice are.
Most epic monsters, on the other hand, have a significantly higher HD than they do a CR (about twice, actually).

That says a CR of 57. HD of 52. Apparently, all those attacks are better than spellcasting. (He'd make an excellent drill bit, though.)

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-28, 07:04 PM
You think that's bad? The monster with the highest CR EVER is the Sphinx, as seen in Dragon magazine in the epic level issue. He counts as an epic golem that's cr 100! Has a +70 attack roll and a special ability to automatically kill whatever he hits twice.

That's kind of lame for a CR 100 creature. Like, really lame. +70? Big whoop.

Douglas
2007-01-28, 07:17 PM
Yeah, really, +70 is worthless at level 100. Back when Belial started his CR 74 playtest, I made a character (see sig) with an attack bonus above +200 and AC above 300. Granted, I put a fair bit of effort into optimizing him and this included party buffs, but it was still 26 levels lower than that Sphinx is rated yet I wouldn't be surprised if my ECL 74 character could kill this supposedly CR 100 monster with a single full attack.

Black Mage
2007-01-28, 07:22 PM
You think that's bad? The monster with the highest CR EVER is the Sphinx, as seen in Dragon magazine in the epic level issue. He counts as an epic golem that's cr 100! Has a +70 attack roll and a special ability to automatically kill whatever he hits twice.

The Iron Collosus has a +72 BAB (+99 total), has an antimagic field, and is immune to all magic exept electric attacks...which heal it. And is only CR 32.

So that CR 100 with only +70 to hit isn't that scarey...well, minus the death after two hits thing.

oriong
2007-01-28, 07:33 PM
Hmm. Most monsters in the OGL have a CR around where the Hit Dice are.
Most epic monsters, on the other hand, have a significantly higher HD than they do a CR (about twice, actually).

That says a CR of 57. HD of 52. Apparently, all those attacks are better than spellcasting. (He'd make an excellent drill bit, though.)

Not really, most monsters have significantly higher HD than CR. This becomes even more obvious at epic levels, but it's the standard.

ken-do-nim
2007-01-28, 07:43 PM
If it counts, I used the hecatoncheires (or however you spell it) in 1st edition. Two of 'em, in fact. It was a gladitorial kind of thing, and the party entered the arena and got hit with the 2 meteor swarms face on. Ouch. Then they put up walls of force and thought about the situation, then they raced into the gladitorial areas under the arena, pulled down the portcullis, and fired arrows and spells through the bars. When the hecatoncheiries (my spelling gets worse) threw boulders back at the party, it hit the portcullis. So they ended up with 100% cover and the big hecaton things were slaughtered.

PS: I intended it to go that way, I was just happy the party figured it out.

Mewtarthio
2007-01-28, 08:02 PM
The Hecatoncheires throws 100 boulders per round. How did they not destroy the portcullis?

Demented
2007-01-28, 08:07 PM
Not really, most monsters have significantly higher HD than CR. This becomes even more obvious at epic levels, but it's the standard.

Aw, nerts, you're right.
I've just been looking at Demons and monsters with class levels. So much for accurate sampling.

Black Mage
2007-01-28, 08:17 PM
The Hecatoncheires throws 100 boulders per round. How did they not destroy the portcullis?

Or at least block it so that the party couldn't shoot it anymore.

ken-do-nim
2007-01-28, 11:15 PM
Or at least block it so that the party couldn't shoot it anymore.

It was one HUMONGO portcullis, designed to keep the hecatoncheires (gosh if I have to spell that one more time...) inside. I'm sure I dealt with the boulders piling up on the other side, but honestly it was so many years ago I can't remember what exactly happened. Probably involved disintegrate spells.

the_tick_rules
2007-01-28, 11:19 PM
well i dunno crap about the 1st ed verison so i can't comment. well if you read the powers available to epic characters available it is possible. but i've seen gaming on that level, it's not fun to me.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-01-29, 01:47 AM
Epic Wizards. Universe ends. No save.

Darkshade
2007-01-29, 02:07 AM
All I know is the one time someone in our DM group pulled one of those out I was playing Tank my 41st level Dwarven Defender and my damage reduction prevented it from being able to hurt me at all.

Avicenex
2007-01-29, 02:24 AM
The Hecatoncheires's CR was probably calculated using some formula, but it's far too high for how bad it is. Any decently made epic character can kill it at that level. Just for fun, I pitted a CR 45 creature I made against it, and that creature killed the Hecatoncheires in one round. Easily.