Scoundrel [PF] [PEACH]

[Psycho Yuffie]

Double Stab (Ex): All scoundrels fight with a light weapon in each hand. Thus, they attack as if they have the two-weapon fighting feat. They gain an additional attack with their off-hand weapon whenever they gain a new attack with their main hand. Additionally, she may sneak attack with both weapons. This ability only works if both weapons are light. This ability replaces trapfinding.

Riposte (Ex): At 3rd level, a scoundrel learns to deflect attacks with her swords. She gains a +2 shield bonus to her AC as long as she is wielding a weapon in each hand. In addition, whenever an enemy misses an attack, she may automatically attempt to disarm her foe without drawing an attack of opportunity. If she succeeds, she gains a free attack of opportunity against the enemy. This ability replaces all trap sense increases +1 to +5.

Two-Weapon Specialization (Ex): At 4th level, a scoundrel gains an additional +2 to attack and damage rolls while attacking with a weapon in each hand. In addition, she deals an extra 1d6 of damage when attacking with a weapon in each hand while sneak attacking. This ability replaces rogue talent.

Improved Double Stab (Ex): At 9th level, a scoundrel no longer takes any penalties while wielding a weapon in each hand. She also adds her full strength modifier to her off-hand weapon. Additionally, she uses both her main hand and offhand weapons in attacks of opportunities. This ability replaces sneak attack +1d6.

Twist the Knife (Ex): At 12th level, a scoundrel adds her Dexterity modifier to damage rolls whenever she wields a light weapon in her main hand and off-hand. This ability replaces rogue talent.

Quick Stab Flurry (Ex): At 15th level, a scoundrel may execute a full attack even after moving. The scoundrel may only use this ability while wielding a light weapon in each hand. This ability replaces sneak attack +1d6.

Dirty Fighting (Ex): At 18th level, during a sneak attack, a scoundrel utilizes dishonorable tactics to render opponents staggered for 1 round per sneak die you sacrifice. This ability replaces rogue talent.

This first archetype build is in the following spoiler.
This is now a rogue archetype. Hopefully, this is more unique and powerful than the first attempt.

Double Stab (Ex): All scoundrels fight with a light weapon in each hand. Thus, they attack as if they have the two-weapon fighting feat. They gain an additional attack with their off-hand weapon whenever they gain a new attack with their main hand. Additionally, she may sneak attack with both weapons. This ability only works if both weapons are light. This ability replaces trapfinding.

Riposte (Ex): At 3rd level, a scoundrel learns to deflect attacks with her swords. She gains a +2 shield bonus to her AC as long as she is wielding a weapon in each hand. In addition, whenever an enemy misses an attack, she may automatically attempt to disarm her foe without drawing an attack of opportunity. If she succeeds, she gains a free attack of opportunity against the enemy. This ability replaces trap sense +1.

Improved Double Stab (Ex): At 6th level, a scoundrel no longer takes any penalties while wielding a weapon in each hand. She also adds her full strength modifier to her off-hand weapon. Additionally, she uses both her main hand and offhand weapons in attacks of opportunities. This ability replaces trap sense +2.

Two-Weapon Specialization (Ex): At 9th level, a scoundrel gains an additional +2 to attack and damage rolls while attacking with a weapon in each hand. In addition, she deals an extra 1d6 of damage when attacking with a weapon in each hand while sneak attacking. This ability replaces trap sense +3.

Twist the Knife (Ex): At 12th level, a scoundrel adds her Dexterity modifier to damage rolls whenever she wields a light weapon in her main hand and off-hand. This ability replaces trap sense +4.

Quick Stab Flurry (Ex): At 15th level, a scoundrel may execute a full attack even after moving. Additionally, she uses a full attack during attacks of opportunities. This ability replaces trap sense +5.

Invisible Blades (Ex): At 18th level, a scoundrel no longer suffers a -20 penalty to remain hidden after executing a sneak attack with a light weapon in each hand. If her Stealth check succeeds, she deals an additional 1d6 of sneak attack damage on the next round. This ability replaces trap sense +6.

This old class can be found in the spoiler tag.
This is mostly a fighter variant experiment, but it turned out pretty interesting.

Hit Die: d10.
Alignment: Any.

Class Skills
The scoudrel’s class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (engineering) (Int), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int) Knowledge (local) (Int), Perform (Cha), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Swim (Str).
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + Int modifier.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort|Ref|Will|Special
1st|+1|+2|+2|+0|Two-weapon fighting
2nd|+2|+3|+3|+0|Oversized two-weapon fighting, evasion
3rd|+3|+3|+3|+1|Riposte 1
4th|+4|+4|+4|+1|Double slice, fast stealth
5th|+5|+4|+4|+1|Two-weapon specialization 1
6th|+6/+1|+5|+5|+2|Improved two-weapon fighting, uncanny dodge
7th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+2|Riposte 2
8th|+8/+3|+6|+6|+2|Improved evasion
9th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+3|Two-weapon specialization 2
10th|+10/+5|+7|+7|+3|Improved uncanny dodge, stand up
11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+7|+3|Riposte 3
12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+8|+4|Greater two-weapon fighting
13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+8|+4|Two-weapon specialization 3
14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+9|+4|Bonus feat, slippery mind
15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+9|+5|Riposte 4
16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+10|+5|Bonus feat
17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+10|+5|Two-weapon specialization 4
18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+11|+6|Bonus feat
19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+11|+6|Riposte mastery
20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+12|+6|Bonus feat, two-weapon mastery[/table]

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the scoundrel.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Scoundrels are proficient with all simple and all one-handed martial weapons. They are also proficient with light armor and no shields.

Bonus Feats: A scoundrel gains bonus feats at 14th level and every other level after that. These bonus feats must be selected from those listed as combat feats. A scoundrel is the same as a fighter for the sake of satisfying feat prerequisites. This is true for feats gained through normal progression as well. For example, at 5th level, a scoundrel may take Weapon Specialization, which requires a 4th level fighter.

Two-Weapon Fighting (Ex): All scoundrels fight with a weapon in each hand. Thus, they gain two-weapon fighting as a bonus feat.

Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting (Ex): Beginning at 2nd level, a scoundrel can wield a normal-sized weapon in each hand as if both their main hand and off-hand weapons were light. Thus, they only take a -2 penalty to each hand.

Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a scoundrel can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the scoundrel is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless scoundrel does not gain the benefit of evasion.

Riposte (Ex): At 3rd level, a scoundrel learns to deflect attacks with her swords. She gains a +1 shield bonus to her AC as long as she is wielding a weapon in each hand. Due to the dexterous nature of mastering the riposte, a scoundrel’s armor check penalty with light armor is also reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 0) and her Dexterity bonus increases by 1.These bonuses increase by 1 every four levels thereafter (7th, 11th, and 15th).

Double Slice (Ex): At 4th level, a scoundrel gains double slice as a bonus feat. Due to this, she may now add her full Strength bonus to her off-hand damage rolls.

Fast Stealth (Ex): Also at 4th level, a scoundrel can move at full speed using the Stealth skill without penalty.

Two-Weapon Specialization (Ex): Beginning at 5th level, a scoundrel becomes increasingly familiar with two-weapon combat; she can wield them with higher precision than most. As such, her attack and damage rolls while using a weapon in each hand increases by 2. Every four levels thereafter, this bonus increases by 1.

Additionally, the critical threat range of the scoundrel’s weapon doubles. For example, a longsword’s critical threat range is 19-20. After gaining Two-Weapon Specialization, it changes to 17-20. This new critical range is only active when the scoundrel is wielding a weapon in her main hand and off-hand. This ability does not increase beyond 5th level, unlike the attack and damage rolls.

Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (Ex): At 6th level, a scoundrel gains improved two-weapon fighting as a bonus feat. This gives a second attack to a scoundrel’s off-hand weapon.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 6th level, a scoundrel can react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught f lat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A rogue with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against her.

If a scoundrel already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

Improved Evasion (Ex): Beginning at 8th level, a scoundrel gains improved evasion. This works like evasion, except that while the rogue still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, she henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless scoundrel does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 10th level, a scoundrel can no longer be flanked.

This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the character by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target’s scoundrel levels.

If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to f lank the character.

Stand Up (Ex): Also at 10th level, a scoundrel gains the ability to stand up from a prone position as a free action. This still provokes an attack of opportunity for standing up while threatened by a foe.

Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (Ex): At 12th level, a scoundrel gains Greater Two-Weapon Fighting as a bonus feat. This gives a third attack to a scoundrel’s off-hand weapon.

Slippery Mind (Ex): At 14th level, a scoundrel’s mind becomes as agile and difficult to strike as her body. If a scoundrel with slippery mind is affected by an enchantment spell or effect and fails her saving throw, she can attempt it again 1 round later at the same DC. She gets only this one extra chance to succeed on her saving throw.

Riposte Mastery (Ex): Starting at 19th level, when an opponent fails to strike a scoundrel with a melee attack, she gets a free disarm attempt that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. If she succeeds, she receives an attack of opportunity on the opponent. You may use both your main hand weapon and off-hand weapon with this attack of opportunity. You only gain these abilities when you have a weapon in your main hand and off-hand.

Two-Weapon Mastery (Ex): At 20th level, a scoundrel cannot be disarmed while wielding a weapon in both her main hand and off-hand. In addition, her critical multiplier increases by 1 while wielding a weapon in both her main hand and off-hand. She also receives a fourth attack with her off-hand weapon.

[Amnoriath]

Okay, so what is your goal here? If you just wanted a two-weapon specialist with some rogue caveats it is all right but not that good. Two-weapon fighter is better for fighting and the rogue deals a heck of a lot more damage with more utility. A scoundrel to me is far more broad than a two-weapon fighter and generally base classes need to fulfill that broad idea.

[Psycho Yuffie]

Okay, so what is your goal here? If you just wanted a two-weapon specialist with some rogue caveats it is all right but not that good. Two-weapon fighter is better for fighting and the rogue deals a heck of a lot more damage with more utility. A scoundrel to me is far more broad than a two-weapon fighter and generally base classes need to fulfill that broad idea.

I don't think you read the class features if you believe a two-weapon fighter is better than a scoundrel. First of all, a scoundrel can equip two normal-sized weapons in her main and off-hand and treat them as if they're light--which means she only suffers a -2 penalty, instead of taking a -4 penalty. Further, this penalty is overcome by two-weapon specialization. Two-weapon specialization is similar to weapon training, but it has a focus on two-weapon fighting. On top of that, a scoundrel still qualifies for fighter-only feats. My goal was to create a fighter variant that was exceedingly good at fighting with two weapons, which I think I succeeded on. Riposte is like armor training, but with a focus on giving a two-weapon fighter a far higher AC than with just two-weapon defense, which only gives a puny +1 shield bonus and that's it. Instead, Riposte grows as the scoundrel levels. Maybe I could throw in some armor benefits too because the scoundrel being limited to just light armor is a pretty big weakness for a front-line melee class. I have a hard time seeing someone in full plate running around the battlefield, though, the way I envision the scoundrel doing. I know that armor training eventually allows someone to do that, but it's hard to imagine that happening.

Anyway, the scoundrel has class features that keep protect her from save or die (improved evasion) and mind-affecting spells (slippery mind), which the fighter doesn't have. Stand Up also helps paint an overall picture of an agile fighter who flips back to her feet when she is knocked down. Again, hard to imagine that happening with full plate.

As for it not dealing more damage than a rogue, that was never my intention. The rogue is the best melee damage dealer in the game. The point of this variant is to be better than a two-weapon fighter, but not be better than the rogue. I won't give this class sneak attack.

Then there's the matter of skill points. While the Pathfinder fighter isn't completely useless outside of battle anymore, they still only get 2 + Int. I gave the scoundrel far more skill points and skills to invest in. A scoundrel should have lots of skills, but not as much as the rogue, of course.

[Amnoriath]

I don't think you read the class features if you believe a two-weapon fighter is better than a scoundrel. First of all, a scoundrel can equip two normal-sized weapons in her main and off-hand and treat them as if they're light--which means she only suffers a -2 penalty, instead of taking a -4 penalty. Further, this penalty is overcome by two-weapon specialization. Two-weapon specialization is similar to weapon training, but it has a focus on two-weapon fighting. On top of that, a scoundrel still qualifies for fighter-only feats. My goal was to create a fighter variant that was exceedingly good at fighting with two weapons, which I think I succeeded on. Riposte is like armor training, but with a focus on giving a two-weapon fighter a far higher AC than with just two-weapon defense, which only gives a puny +1 shield bonus and that's it. Instead, Riposte grows as the scoundrel levels. Maybe I could throw in some armor benefits too because the scoundrel being limited to just light armor is a pretty big weakness for a front-line melee class. I have a hard time seeing someone in full plate running around the battlefield, though, the way I envision the scoundrel doing. I know that armor training eventually allows someone to do that, but it's hard to imagine that happening.

Anyway, the scoundrel has class features that keep protect her from save or die (improved evasion) and mind-affecting spells (slippery mind), which the fighter doesn't have. Stand Up also helps paint an overall picture of an agile fighter who flips back to her feet when she is knocked down. Again, hard to imagine that happening with full plate.

As for it not dealing more damage than a rogue, that was never my intention. The rogue is the best melee damage dealer in the game. The point of this variant is to be better than a two-weapon fighter, but not be better than the rogue. I won't give this class sneak attack.

Then there's the matter of skill points. While the Pathfinder fighter isn't completely useless outside of battle anymore, they still only get 2 + Int. I gave the scoundrel far more skill points and skills to invest in. A scoundrel should have lots of skills, but not as much as the rogue, of course.
Here is the Archetype
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/fighter/archetypes/paizo---fighter-archetypes/two-weapon-warrior
1. Your Scoundrel has to wait 19 levels just to make another attack outside of full attacking which is contingent upon the enemy. It doesn't even get pounce or variant of. In terms of action economy that is really bad for a multi-attacker.
2. The Fighter though still has all of its bonus feats early on so it can get its feats and standard action double and dabble in rogue.
3. Improved Evasion isn't even worth the space it takes up. Evasion is all right but even then unless you deal with a lot of blastomancy in which then rays should be obvious it simply doesn't stop the stuff that stops everything or requires to rethink strategy. Save or Dies are almost always fortitude and will saves.
4. Slippery Mind is just a reroll one round later on a select group of abilities in which if there any other enemies they just closed in on you by the time you use it.
5. A Rogue did that about 8 levels ago.
Yes, I never contended that but making a one style pony with latent rogue stuff isn't going to earn you a good role in the party.

[ngilop]

TO me something as super narrow as 'hey im dual wield weapons' is not at all what a Base class should be

A baseclass should be a more open and generalized of a character concept.

This should be either made into a PF fighter or Rogue archetype

or a 10 level Prestige class.

both of those are more about being ultra narrowly focused.

[Psycho Yuffie]

@Amnoriath: I wasn't aware that something like this has been made officially and--I'm willing to admit--it's far better than what I made. I guess there's no point to this class at all then. That being said, one thing my class does better than the archetype is getting rid of the penalties far sooner and when they'll be far more meaningful. With the two-weapon fighter archetype, you have to wait until 11th level before they reduce the penalties and even then it's only a meager -1 reduction. That's my only gripe, though.

@ngliop: Originally, this was just going to be a archetype, but I went a little crazy because I got excited. Anyway, as Amnoriath pointed out, a two-weapon fighter archetype already exists, so this whole thing is pointless.

[ngilop]

If it makes you feel any better.

I totally thought this was going to be a more martial rogue (sort of like a WoW Rogue), so maybe you can make this into a rogue archetype?

[Psycho Yuffie]

If it makes you feel any better.

I totally thought this was going to be a more martial rogue (sort of like a WoW Rogue), so maybe you can make this into a rogue archetype?

That would be the next, logical step. I'm still excited about this idea and I want to make it work, even if how it works changes. The heart of it will remain the same. I'll have to study the rogue and find some way to figure out what to swap out to keep things balanced.

I'm thinking about keeping it with light weapons. Giving weapon finesse at lower levels and eliminating the -2 penalties around fifth level. I'm open to ideas, though.

[Psycho Yuffie]

By the way, I updated the main thread so that the scoundrel is now a rogue archetype.

[ngilop]

YAAY! this is totally what i had envisioned :)

Riposte should just replace ALL Trap Sense, breaking them down like they are seperate features instead of just 1 progression of a single ability is a bit crazy.


Just give them double stab

Have improved two weapon fighting replace the 9th level sneak attack (your not really losing anything as long as you are dual wielding)


Twist the Knife replaces the 12th level Rogue Talent

Quick stab... full attack as an Attack of Opportunity is a bit much, your lokking at maybe 7 or 8 full attacks a round this way a BIT too excessive, just allow them to full attack as a standard action, but only while dual weilding

Invisibel blade makes no sense, the soundrel is more about fighting and being a dirty fighter

instead of this allow them to when making a sneak attack let them stagger the opponent for 1 round per dice of sneak attack they sacrifice.

those changes tome make an AWESOME dual wielding more combat focus rogue.

:)

I enjoy your work /hugs

[Psycho Yuffie]

I made the changes. I'm wondering if I can't do more with the dirty fighting aspect, though, because it totally does seem like something the class would do. Unfortunately, the archetype already has a lot going on. It's too easy to try to make a class do too many things, so it ends up not being especially good at anything.