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View Full Version : How strong, stat wise, should enemies be?



heavyfuel
2014-02-13, 05:51 AM
If I gave my group a 32 point buy, should enemies also have this as their base, or should I use something like standard/elite array?

Basically, should adventurers be inherently stronger than most people?

Wacky89
2014-02-13, 05:57 AM
I would use Elite Array/point buy for big bad guys otherwise use use standard stats. Depending on the optimization level of the party.

heavyfuel
2014-02-13, 06:06 AM
Hmmm, the party in question is Beguiler, a Dungeon-Crasher Fighter, a Pally and a Cleric/Healstick. They're not as optmized as I'd like them to be, but they manage well enough.

Wacky89
2014-02-13, 06:07 AM
ok, then I would use standard stats for mooks/monsters, elite array for big bad guys.

weckar
2014-02-13, 06:17 AM
Depends on how many they are going up against. When in doubt, use their characters to play out a hypothetical version of the encounter. Most battles ideally last 3-5 rounds.

Brookshw
2014-02-13, 06:56 AM
Is this campaign just starting? Give it a few encounters so you can gauge the parties strengths and abilities, then come back to this question when you have a good base line to compare against for what's a decent challenge, what's a strong challenge, and what's a push over.

prufock
2014-02-13, 07:57 AM
Balancing encounters is, unfortunately, as much art as science. It depends FAR less on what the enemies' stats are than what they can do.

(making no assumptions about what level you are)

For example, a wizard going against this party really only needs a good INT score, and decent CON and DEX. A 25-point buy is perfectly reasonable and would probably present a good challenge, especially when he levitates, casts wind wall or similar to stop arrows, litters the ground with AoE battlefield control, and peppers will save-or-lose spells on the fighter, fort save-or-lose spells on the beguiler, and reflex save-or-damage spells on the paladin and cleric. He can basically take the fighter and paladin out of the fight by levitating/flying (unless they have the items) and concentrate on the spellcasters first.

Compare that to an encounter with a fighter. Again, he'll probably only need 2 or 3 good stats, but unless he has a very focused build, the party will likely steamroll over him. Giving him better stats will allow him to hit harder, take less hits, have better saves, and last longer, but the challenge isn't going to be the same as the wizard.

I generally start with the same point buy as the PCs or an array that amounts to the same (for 32 pb I use what I call the uber array: 17, 15, 13, 12, 10, 8). Then I fudge the numbers so that the enemy has the stats it needs to compete.

Mystral
2014-02-13, 08:08 AM
Standart enemies: Normal Array
Elite Enemies: Elite Array
Real Antagonists: Point Buy, 28-whatever

Feint's End
2014-02-13, 08:55 AM
Please not that higher and lower point buy do not represent power of characters ... at least in most cases. For example a wizard will almost be at the same power level with 25 or 32 pb. The characters who really get screwed by pb are the martial and mad classes. I honestly consider 32 pb the minimum pb to keep the stats interesting just because of that. Everything below that does not actually decrease power of the group but rather screws the already weaker classes over.

So again pb =/= power level of the group ... builds and experience define the power level

That being said you shouldn't take point buy into consideration when it comes to stating enemies because the influence on power is pretty minimal. I personally change stats based on what I feel is the most appropriate for the enemies at hand.
If you want a quicker method then I recommend using standard stats for only the weaker enemies, using elite on stronger foes and custom on bosses.
Also prufock brought up some good points that point buy affects most enemies even less than your pcs. It's more important what they can do.

To sum it up. Height of point buy is only a minimal part in power of enemies and your group and therefor should probably not be something to consider when building enemies.

OldTrees1
2014-02-13, 09:11 AM
Standard Monsters: All 10s and 11s (can be replaced with 15 point buy)
Elite Monsters or anything with PC class levels: Elite Array [15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8] (can be replaced with 25 point buy)
Elite Enemies: Point buy equal to PC point buy.
Special Enemies: Point buy equal to PC point buy + Arbitrarily boost stats further (say +2 to all stats or +6 to one stat and +4 to another)

killem2
2014-02-13, 11:30 AM
I use the 5d6 rolling method for them. I try to keep enemies in the same frame as the players.