Duo Druid Villains (Holt Warden / Master of Many Forms)

[Tevesh]

I'm stumped so I'm coming to the playground for assistance as you've always treated me so well.

I've creating two Druids for the party to fight. Its a high level game and the party is pretty optimized.

I have 3 issues:

First, I am not familiar with Druids. Oh, I've used them before in my games but usually they either had enough Feats to just be one type of Druid. This one is a Beastmaster, another one could be a Summoner, et cetera.

With the PCs being high enough level, this means a Druid is going to have multiple specializations.

Which brings me to my second problem, if a little smaller. Should I just create the same Druid twice or try to re-invent the wheel once I'm done making the first one. I don't know how flexible the Druid builds are going to be so I don't know if I can do that.

Third is the trouble of theme. The monsters are Large Abeil Soldiers from MM2. The PCs have stirred up trouble with a hive. This mean I'd like a bee and insect theme. Unfortunately, for thematic reasons I can't use the Eberron insect based Druidic Sect. Faerun or Sandstorm might be more appropriate.

Which brings me back to my first problem, I'm not too familiar with Druids. I don't know if I should have a couple monster entries already listed that they'll wild shape into. I don't know what SNAs or other creatures they should make or how much I should lean on that. Finally, there's the animal companions.

As helpful as the Druid, Summoning and Wild Shape guides are out there, they don't quite have a Bee slant.

Any suggestions on how to run this would also be great. As much as I can just have the Abeils not use Wild Shape, that seems like a great disservice considering we're hitting pretty high PC levels.

Thank you.

[Falcon X]

I like your idea.

Pre-set animals to wild-shape into: I would absolutely have about 2 or 3 reset insects readily available as both animal companions and Wild Shape possibilities. Most druids have preferences, while leaving themselves open to the idea of others.
- Shapeshifting ACF (PHB2) is a great way to make this simpler. With it, you shapeshift into any animal, and you get a standard template for a stat boost. You do not, however, get any of the nice special abilities... Still, it can make things easier if you weren't going to use those abilities.

A few theme ideas:
1. Druidic Avenger (PHB2) w/Shapeshifting ACF for one - Basically, play the classic "One's the thinker, one's the fighter." They both have full Spell progression, but your avenger works with stats templates and feels like a berserker with spells. At a moment's notice, he goes into rage and shapeshifts into a giant wasp. Both up his fighting ability significantly, and aren't game-breaking.
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/UA:Druid_Variant:_Druidic_Avenger

2. One's a Animal Lord (MotW), controlling the hive. The other is the forward man. Animal Lord is the perfect setup for a hive mind. All insects like you, and you can command them telepathically. Set this guy up in the center of a stronghold while the other guy is security chief/does missions.

3. Shifter Druids (RoE) - First off, your guys are shifters, so they are hard to spot in society. But with the Shifter Druid racial substitution Levels, they replace their animal companion with an inner beast spirit that can be very thematic.

If I were doing it, I would set up one as an Animal Lord, and the other as either a Shifter Druid or Druidic Avenger.

[KorbeltheReader]

Obligatory druid handbook link (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=1354.0).

Cool idea. The bad news is yes, you should decide on some forms ahead of time and stat them out. You should find some good SNA choices ahead of time. The flip side of the versatility of tier 1 classes like druid is they all require a lot of bookkeeping.

It would be more interesting to have 2 very different druid builds, but also much more difficult for you to play effectively. You'll have to consider how good you are at strategizing on the fly and not forgetting your monsters' key abilities.

[weckar]

Half of a druid's weapon is his environment. At high levels, and on his own terrain, a druid may have an item of Tree Stride and rely on stealth if he's in a dense forest. More aquatic druids may get the environment to literally fight for them.
With your insect theme... I know it's not an exact fit, but I remember a build for a Plaguebringer Druid somewhere around here. I'd link if I knew exactly where... basically it had a bunch of feats that allowed wildshaping into a swarm.

[Azoth]

For something like this, I think I would go with a tricked out summoner druid and one who can lock down the field of battle. Divide and conquer routine works wonders.

[Tevesh]

The setup is that I'm using these Abeils to attack a city. The PCs pissed off the hive, so the hive has sent out this party to attack the PCs. The Abeils will have no compunction to not use AoEs to bomb innocents; however, they're not fighting on their own home turf. The two Druids are the boss of the encounter.

The current encounter is:
These two Druids (CR 15 x 5)
Large Abeil Soldier, Duskblade 5/Abjurant Champion 5/Uncanny Trickster 3/Fist of the Forest 1/Fighter 2 (CR 14)
Large Abeil Soldier, Thayan Gladiator 4/Poisonmaster 10 (Dark Sun PrC) (CR 13)
Abeil Vassal, Warlock 9/Hellfire Warlock 3/Uncanny Trickster 3/Monk 1 Minions x 5(I stole the 4E idea and made a Template I saw someone discuss) (CR 9)

I'm aiming for ECL 18/19 depending on when the PCs piss off the hive, so I don't mind parcelling a few of these fights off. I went by the D&D 3.5 Calculator and pushed the numbers as high as I can to be on the edge of 18/19.

With Abeils being Rangers (or Fighters) for the primary course, it causes adding two class levels for every CR. This is how I can quickly pump up their levels while not advancing CR at the same rate. Its a dirty trick I've been having to pull as the PCs get higher and higher levels - nothing has Cleric, Druid or Wizard as their primary class so its easy to get a lot of bang for your buck.

So, the complication added to this mix are the Wild Shapes, Animal Companions and SNAs.

@ Falcon X: Thank you for the suggestions, though I don't know how much I can violate for "Thou Shalt Not Lose CLs" with these Alt features. If Shifter Druids have some strange power-up then I could easily change the fluff and make these guys candidates. The Druidic Avenger would be good for a bruiser build; however, I don't know how much to mourn the lack of an Animal Companion. They're quite the force multiplier.

@ KorbeltheReader: Yeah, already read the Druid Handbook for earlier Druid builds. I understand the need to stat out SNAs and Wild Shapes, the issue is some recommendations, especially for Insect-themed choices.

@ wecker: Are you talking about the Blighter PrC? I'll look for more mass destruction sort of Druid PrCs, I guess.

@ Azoth: I don't know how to build more onto the Divide and Conquer since they already have backup.

[eggynack]

Thank you for the suggestions, though I don't know how much I can violate for "Thou Shalt Not Lose CLs" with these Alt features. If Shifter Druids have some strange power-up then I could easily change the fluff and make these guys candidates. The Druidic Avenger would be good for a bruiser build; however, I don't know how much to mourn the lack of an Animal Companion. They're quite the force multiplier.
There aren't any ACF's that ditch casting, though avenger loses spontaneous summoning, so you would be fine along those lines. The first two shifter druid levels are some sweet business, and easily the best thing to trade an animal companion for, so I would go with that on a bruiser build.


Yeah, already read the Druid Handbook for earlier Druid builds. I understand the need to stat out SNAs and Wild Shapes, the issue is some recommendations, especially for Insect-themed choices.
Vermin wild shape is easy enough to pick up without much effort. Wasteland druid (Sand, 47) is probably the best ACF way, and a vestment of verminshape (DMG II, 273) is definitely the best item way. SNA's are less easy, and you might be stuck with child of winter as the only option, despite your stated issues with it. I'd advise re-flavoring it, because it's a pretty good feat.


Are you talking about the Blighter PrC? I'll look for more mass destruction sort of Druid PrCs, I guess.
It's a pretty terrible prestige class, though I could see it functioning from a DM perspective. Talantor blightlord (UE, 34) functions as a pretty decent evil druid prestige class, especially on a dip. The feat prerequisites are annoying, but once again, not as big a deal on NPC's.

I don't know how to build more onto the Divide and Conquer since they already have backup.
It's mostly just about tossing out BFC's. Blizzard (Frost, 89) seems like it'd work great for a pair of evil druids who don't care about collateral damage, and blood snow (Frost, 89) combos great with it. Starting off with a blizzard actually sounds kinda amazing for this sorta thing. There's also stuff like control winds, wall of thorns, and if you want to make use of those high level slots, reverse gravity and red tide (SpC, 170). Really, anything that can control the direction of engagement is great, and it's made even better when you have some guys beating up the PC's amidst that BFC.

[Grayson01]

I like your idea.

3. Shifter Druids (RoE) - First off, your guys are shifters, so they are hard to spot in society. But with the Shifter Druid racial substitution Levels, they replace their animal companion with an inner beast spirit that can be very thematic.

If I were doing it, I would set up one as an Animal Lord, and the other as either a Shifter Druid or Druidic Avenger.

This was going to be my suggestion. I would not make them both the same I would mix and match things give them there own flavor. I don't rememeber if Moonspeaker has an alighnment restriction but that's a pretty good PrC for a shifter PrC (from RoE)

If it was me I would make one a WildShaper and one who uses the Shifter Druid Substituion for Wild Shape. have both take the level one Shifter Sub level. The Shifter can be your Summoner and your Wild Shaper can be your direct mellee charger. For the Shifter Summoner you can go with a few shifter feats get three traits with the Substition and the Extra Shifter Trait feat. You can use it to explore the Shifter race a bit.

[eggynack]

This was going to be my suggestion. I would not make them both the same I would mix and match things give them there own flavor. I don't rememeber if Moonspeaker has an alighnment restriction but that's a pretty good PrC for a shifter PrC (from RoE)
It's not alignment locked, but the 4th level ability, thelanis tie, kinda requires non-evil to work right.


If it was me I would make one a WildShaper and one who uses the Shifter Druid Substituion for Wild Shape. have both take the level one Shifter Sub level. The Shifter can be your Summoner and your Wild Shaper can be your direct mellee charger. For the Shifter Summoner you can go with a few shifter feats get three traits with the Substition and the Extra Shifter Trait feat. You can use it to explore the Shifter race a bit.
I'd probably avoid the wild shifting thing. It's just so bad. Moonspeaker can help out with extra shifter trait, because moonspeaker shifting makes filling the prerequisites easy. It's a bit on the low impact side though.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Druids have some of the best crowd control spells of any class, and should use them early and often. Wall of Thorns (cast on top of opponents), Call Avalance (Frostburn), Kelpstrand (SC), etc. Keep in mind that Freedom of Movement only allows someone to act normally when under the effect of spells that specifically prohibit movement, or when underwater, but not any other circumstances. Call Avalanche and Wall of Thorns specifically conjure obstacles, but the spells themselves don't limit movement. Freedom of Movement does not permit someone to automatically bypass a conjured obstacle, even if they're buried in snow by it. If they would normally be impeded by a physical obstacle, then Freedom of Movement permits them to act normally regarding that obstacle, so they're still impeded by it despite FoM.

Druids also get some spectacular damage dealing spells, for example give each of them a Circlet of Rapid Casting (MIC), Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend, and the feat Fell Drain Spell (LM). They can use those with Creeping Cold (SC) to deal 21d6 damage and six negative levels to a target over six rounds. They should target spellcasters with this first.

[Tragak]

Since the most in-depth advice has already been covered very well: you want insects, and Evil Druids generally want to bring down civilization to force people back into the natural world.

The civilized world depends on metal, so if only there were insects in D&D that destroy metal… oh that's right: Rust Monsters :smalltongue:

[Tevesh]

Oh man, Rust Monsters are evil...

The issue I have is that SNAs and/or Wild Shapes bring really underwhelming monsters. For example, Elementals are still a little underwhelming unless you conjure up a Storm Elemental for blasty or a Monolith. So, if I somehow SNA a Rust Monster or Wild Shape into one, how would be still be a threat to PCs?

I normally wouldn't throw a Rust Monster at a party, as that is effectively a way to say "F*** YOU!" but they're in a city. While it'll hurt to lose the equipment, then can immediately shell out and by something comparable.

[eggynack]

The issue I have is that SNAs and/or Wild Shapes bring really underwhelming monsters. For example, Elementals are still a little underwhelming unless you conjure up a Storm Elemental for blasty or a Monolith. So, if I somehow SNA a Rust Monster or Wild Shape into one, how would be still be a threat to PCs?

SNA and wild shape aren't that underwhelming, especially if you have a feat or two. Something as simple as rashemi elemental summoning can turn those air elementals into orglashes, which have a 3/day cone of cold dealing 15d6 damage, simultaneously upgrading their stats. Thomils also make for effective beatsticks. Also, oreads are a thing, and they are a thing which produces earthquakes, spontanously, out of 6th level slots.

As for wild shape, you lack access to exalted wild shape, cause your druids are not good, but dragon wild shape provides a bunch of solid abilities. I suppose you'd tend towards aberration wild shape though, as that is what would grant rust monster abilities. It is a less good feat though. Still, even without feats, you have dire tortoise form access, which can let you catch PC's off guard without any chance of the druids being caught off guard themselves. It is a neat thing.

[Azoth]

spell focus (conjuration)
augment summon
ashbound summon
natural spell
greenbound summon
rashemi elemental summon
(look into reinment of beast for some gear to help summons)
Also, metamagic rod of Extend spell to double the duration.

Greenbound summons are mean. It turns your summons into plants but gives them massive stat boosts and Wall of Thorns 1/day as an SLA.

Just using augment, ashbound, and greenbound beefs a creature considerably. Something to the tune of +3luck to attack, double duration of spell, +10STR/+2dex/+8con/+4 cha, +6NA, grant a slam attack ontop of normal attacks, DR10/Magic+slashing. That is a nice buff up without increasing spell level used for the spell.

Rashemi elemental summoning lets you summon AoE generators ontop of your backup beatsticks. Best part is that Ashbound and augment summoning still apply so double duration for beat sticking after they run out of AoE goodies.

[Tragak]

The issue I have is that SNAs and/or Wild Shapes bring really underwhelming monsters. For example, Elementals are still a little underwhelming unless you conjure up a Storm Elemental for blasty or a Monolith. So, if I somehow SNA a Rust Monster or Wild Shape into one, how would be still be a threat to PCs? Don't worry about it: you wouldn't need SNA for the Druids to use Rust Monsters (or anything else, really) in the story any more than an alpha wolf would need SNA to use a pack of wolves in the story. SNA helps, but it doesn't need to be the focus if you don't want it to be.


I normally wouldn't throw a Rust Monster at a party, as that is effectively a way to say "F*** YOU!" but they're in a city. While it'll hurt to lose the equipment, then can immediately shell out and by something comparable. Which also makes sense because that's where the druids would probably want their Rust Monsters to be anyway :smallwink:

[Tevesh]

I'm going to build the summoner first, as I figure they'd be more work so I can 'reward' myself with the beatstick.

I'm going with the Summoner Suite as Azoth suggested: Conj Foc, Augment Summoning, Ashbound Summoning, Greenbound Summoning, Rashemi Elemental Summoning, Natural Spell. My question is if there is a PrC that can really amp it up or are Druids truly best at "Druid 20"? I'm going to have quite a few extra feats laying around so suggestions there would be good. Twin Spell for double summons is one thing I'm thinking.

I came across the "Initiative of Nature" feat that allows you to Command and Rebuke Animals and Plants. The question I have is in addition to any SNAs I should get with the feats already in mind, what Plants/Animals should I be commanding to this?

This fight is going to be one of the last levels of my game, so go nuts for some suggestions please. Rust Monsters are unfortunately Abberations. :(

Edit: Just thought of something, could you Rashemi a Storm Elemental? It says Air Elementals but its a Template...

[eggynack]

Moonspeakers make pretty good summoners, as do druids using shifter druid substitution levels. Most fancy druid dips, like holt warden and contemplative, aren't that great for summoners. Actually, holt warden slots can technically fuel spontaneous summoning, so that's neat. As for rust monsters, aberration wild shape can help with that.

[Tevesh]

I managed to find a Feat that the Druid qualified for: Epic Animal Companion and Remorhaz was listed. May be supoptimal but its a bug Companion. Might get a double Order with the non-Summoning Druid.

Also, Storm Elemental is listed as an Air Elemental so I'm Rashemi'ing those, as well as an Air Monolith.

Now, Holt Warden looks good and I can switch around feats to get the initiate of Nature to Command/Rebuke Plants and Animals. Are there any Plants or Animals that people really suggest? I did notice that Sporebat is a Plant and is listed as a SM8 with low HD. This means I could have a couple of these flying around.

Are there any Animals I could go with? Or could I cheat it with a Greenbound Animal as a Plant and just use Holt Warden? I'm thinking of going that route but wanted to know if there was any debate RAW/RAI.

I try to cheat as little as possible when building my fights. :P

[Callin]

Isnt there some sort of Wildshape ACF that does no shaping and just gives buffs? i have no idea what the name of it is though. That could be useful.

other than you can pretty much refluff everything else. Barkskin can just be thicker Chitin, ect ect.

You could try trading out their animal companion for 1 Domain ala Pathfinder Druids.

[Tevesh]

I think having more bodies on the floor is more important to combat high level Action Economy. I mean, I'm going to lose like half my force once the wizard unleashes hell. This is a CR 18/19 Encounter.

The ACF you're thinking of is Deadly Hunter. Listed as the first ACF in the Druid Handbook. I'm giving that to my Summoner Druid so its less of a hassle to restat. I mean, this guy is already bringing Twined Rashemi Air Monoliths to the battle ground in addition to his Animal Companion and other Summons.

Now I'm just trying to figure out how to optimize the **** out of his Rebuke Plant and/or Animal. Holt Warden seems like an obvious choice, just so I can Rebuke Plants. The question is: Should I bother with Initiate of Nature for Animals or could I cheat it with slapping Greenbound on all of his Rebuked Plants.

[Tevesh]

Alright, I've completed the Summoner Druid and his entourage. Now, I've just got to build the Transformer Druid. I don't want to go with Master of Many Forms but maybe Warshaper is a possibility?

I'll probably dip a level of Beastmaster and pick up a Wild Cohort for the Shapeshifting Druid just to have more bodies. After the Wizard's turn of wiping out my forces, I like having more creatures to attack him with.

Any suggestions for an 'easy' way to do a Wildshape Druid? As much as I want to say, "Hey look, he's a Bee Guy!" it might be easier to already to have him in a different Wild Shape.

For those who are curious, this is what the Summoner Druid brings. I am hoping that the Wild Shapes the Druid bring something new to the party. I already have enough bruisers (but I guess you never could be bruiser enough).

Large Abeil Soldier, Druid 8/Holt Warden 10 HD 24 HP 313 DR 20/-
AC 33 T 25 F 17 Fly Good 90
Init +9; Fort +29 Ref +21 Will +35 Drone Sleep/Will 22
Cast: Chasing Perfection (+2 Atk, Dmg, Reflex, Fort, Will, Drone DC, PSN DC, Stormwing DC, +4 AC, Touch, +48 HP), Superior Resistance (+6 Saves), Tortoise Shell (+8 Natural), Ice Shield (DR +15/-), Owl's Insight (+4 AC, Touch, Will, Spell DCs), Bite of the Werebear (+6 Atk, Dmg, Bite Attack, +2 Fort, +48 HP, PSN DC, Stormwing DC, Blind-Fight, Multiattack, Power Attack 19), True Seeing, Superior Magic Fang (+5 Atk/Dmg), Sheltered Vitality (Imm Ability Dmg), Thornskin (+d6 Dmg, 5 Dmg if natural atk)

Stormwring 6d6/Reflex 31

10' Claw +38/+38 (2d6+18), 10' Bite +36 (2d8+11) 10' Stinger +36 (d8+11 plus PSN: 2d4 Str/Fort 31)

1/D Web of Life - Recover d4 Spells, +2 Wis (+1 AC, Will)

Spells
CL 22
7th Rain of Thorns (NonLawful take d4 Wisdom damage, Sicken/Fort 27), Creeping Cold (Deal +d6/round for 5 rounds/Fort 27)
6th Mummify (Die/Fort 26, 6d6+Fatigued), Greater Dispel Magic +20 x2
5th Quill Blast (6 Quills Small, 8 Quills Medium, 10 Quills Large/Ref 25; Quill does d6, d6 to Remove, -1 d20 Rolls/Quill), Choking Sands (Full Round Action to Save/Fort 24, otherwise Suffocate)
4th Boreal Wind (15d4 Cold, Push 65'/Fort 23), Blast of Sand (10d6/Reflex 23)
3rd Dispel Magic +10 x5
2nd Snake's Swiftness x6

Skills Concentration +34 Sense Motive +39 Spellcraft +28

Huge Warbeast Remorhaz Companion HD 12 HP 227
AC 47 T 15 F 42
Init +10; Fort +28 Ref +20 Will +23 Heat Slag Weapon/Fort 26; Natural 8d6; Evasion
Cast: Chasing Perfection (+2 Atk, Dmg, Reflex, Fort, Will, AC, Touch, +24 HP), Superior Resistance (+6 Saves), Tortoise Shell (+8 Natural), Owl's Insight (+4 Will), Bite of the Werebear (+6 Atk, Dmg, +2 Fort, PSN DC, Heat DC, +24 HP, 2 Claw Atks, Multiattack, Blind Fight, Power Attack 7), True Seeing, Superior Magic Fang (+5 Atk/Dmg), Sheltered Vitality (Imm Ability Dmg), Thornskin (3 Dmg, 5 Dmg if natural atk)

10' Bite +38 (49 plus ImpGrb +36 plus PSN: 3 Dex;7 Dex/Fort 30 plus Swallow: AC 15, HP 25 - 21 Bludge, 28 Fire), 10' Claw +36/+36 (20)

2x Rashemi Air Monolith HD 36 HP 558 DR 15/- Fast Heal 3
AC 34 T 18 F 22; Air Mastery -2 Atk if Airbonre, Mobility
Init +15; Fort +20 Ref +31 Will +22
Imm Cold Dismiss Vuln Fire

20' Slam +39/+39 (34/19+ plus 10 Cold)

3/D Quicken Cone of Cold 52/Reflex 18

Feats
- Blind Fight
- Combat Reflex 12
- Flyby Atk x 2
- Big Bruiser (1/R Ignore 5' Step)
- PAtk 27

4x Huge Rashemi Storm Elemental HD 21 HP 304 DR 10/- Fast Heal 3 Sonic/Elect Heal 1/3 HP
AC 24 T 8 F 24 Fly 100 Perfect
Init +4; Fort +17 Ref +12 Will +7
Imm Cold Dismiss Vuln Fire

15' Slam +29/+29 (27 plus 7 Electricity plus 7 Cold), Shock +29 (20 Nonlethal/Fort 30)

1/Minute - Thunder 60' (28 Sonic/Fort 30), Lightning 120' Line (56 Elect/Reflex 28)
3/D Quicken Cone of Cold 15d6/Reflex 15

Feat
- Blind Fight
- PAtk 15

2x Greenbound Colossal Monstrous Scorpion HD 40 HP 480 DR 10/Slash Fast Heal 3
AC 33 T 2 FF 32
Init +0; Fort +29 Ref +13 Will +13
Rst Cold Elect 10

30' Claw +42/+42 (31 plus ImpGrb +70), 30' Sting +38 (22 plus PSN: 5 Con/Fort 37)

Greenbound Gargantuan Monstrous Scorpion HD 20 HP 230 DR 10/Slash Fast Heal 3
AC 31 T 7 F 30
Init +0; Fort +19 Ref +7 Will +6
Rst Cold Elect 10

15' Claw +29/+29 (24 plus ImpGrb +48), 15' Sting +24 (16 plus PSN: 4 Con/Fort 27)

4x Large Greenbound Shambling Mounds HD 8 HP 108 DR 10/Slashing Fast Heal 3
AC 27 T 10 F 26
Init +1; Fort +15 Ref +3 Will +4
Imm Elect Rst Fire Cold 10

10' Slam +19/+19 (17 plus ImpGrb +27)

PAtk 6

Large Rebuked Greenbound Warbeast Sporebat HD 22 HP 278 DR 10/Slash Fast Heal 3
AC 23 T 15 F 17; Concealment 50%, Fly 80 Good
Init +10; Fort +15 Ref +14 Will +13; Evasion
Imm Fire, Silent Rst Cold Elect 10

Claws +25/+25 (15) Tail Rake +20 (9)

3x Quickened Ray of Enervation - Every other Round, +20 (2 Negative levels)

Feats
- Flyby x 2
- ImpInit

Greenbound Medium Monstrous Spider Minion x 30 DR 15/Slash
AC 39 T 21 F 28
Init +4; Fort +14 Ref +10 Will +6; Mettle, Evasion, Shield
Rst Cold Elect 10

Bite +31 (8 plus PSN:2 Str/Fort 18) 8/D Web Touch +27 (Entangle, Str 20 or Escape 16 - 6 HP)

[eggynack]

I've never been all that certain of what kinda optimization should be thrown onto villains as opposed to characters I would make, but were I constructing this druid for myself, there would be some differences there. I wouldn't really take more than a level or so of holt warden, for example, nor would I ever use something like beastmaster. Again though, not as sure in this context. Anyway, it looks like your spell list is missing the plant domain spell slots, which is pretty much the whole point of taking the class. Your list is also missing first level spells, which can occasionally be important, and those six listings of snake's swiftness should be mass snake's swiftness if they aren't already. Finally, I'd add a contemplative dip sometime during the holt warden stuff. You can get some pretty sweet spells that way.

As for wild shape focus, the best way to get forms is through feats, though I've already listed pretty much all of the ways to get them. I think my lists were missing fangshields druid substitution levels (CV, 40) for humanoid forms, so that's cool. What might be neat is taking dragon wild shape, and then reflavoring all of the ability laden dragons into ability laden insects, without actually changing their abilities. A medium sized wasp that buzzes over to them before shooting an energy draining breath weapon sounds like a pretty awesome thing, I think. You can get a pretty diverse field of abilities with that feat.

[Tevesh]

Oh man eggynack, you are a life saver. I slapped Contemplative on the Summoner, gave Protection Devotion to swap the Domain (they're very aggressive about protecting their hive) and gave more BFC Spells.

Blizzard plus Blood Snow was a fantastic suggestion as well.

Moving onto the Wild Shape Ranger, I guess going Dragon Wild Shape and then swapping out Dragon attributes for Insect ones is an excellent suggestion. Fangshield Druid just seems to add and will allow me to retain the Stinger and Claws of Abeil. Maybe somehow change one of the attacks into a Rust Monster for kicks.

I guess the plan would be open up with Dire Tortoise for the Surprise Round shenanignans, then shift into something else. I guess I'd refluff the Dire Tortoise into a giant sand beetle.

You've given me somewhere to aim. I'll take a look at the Dragon Wild Shape ASAP. The problem I immediately see is that the Dragon Wild Shape makes you Medium. Is there a Feat to overcome this?

[eggynack]

You've given me somewhere to aim. I'll take a look at the Dragon Wild Shape ASAP. The problem I immediately see is that the Dragon Wild Shape makes you Medium. Is there a Feat to overcome this?
I don't think so, no. You're mostly stuck with either MoMF or the epic dragon wild shape (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#dragonWildShape). I suppose you could just do it manually though, if you don't care about actually accessing large forms. Offhand, that'd probably mean something like using aspect of the wolf to cast animal growth on yourself, and then becoming whatever dragon it is you're seeking to become, thus accessing a large version of that dragon. Kinda indirect though, and there are probably better size boosters out there. If you're looking to use a wild shape ranger as the shape changing druid, I'd probably use the MoMF method. Also, if you're seeking to change on a rapid basis, which you apparently are, you should probably have the creature in question pick up a mantle of the beast (CC, 140) to make wild shape a swift action.

[Tevesh]

This is what I've got so far:

Large Venerable Abeil Soldier, Druid 4/Fangshield 5/Master of Many Forms 10/Warshaper 3 HD 24 HP 355 DR 5/-
AC 19 T 12 F 16 Fly Good 90
Init +3; Fort +26 Ref +17 Will +23 Drone Sleep/Will 23
BAB +17

15' Claw +25/+25 (2d6+4), 15' Stinger +20 (2d6+4 plus PSN: 2d4/Fort 30)

Str 29
Dex 16
Con 30
Int 13
Wis 17
Cha 13

Stormwring 6d6/Reflex 30

Spells
CL 5

Garden of Nature's Rage +4 Str/+4 Con on Wild Shapes
Abilities
+4 Str
+4 Con
+5'
ImpNatAtk

Feats
- Swift Wild Shape - Heal 36/Wild Shape
- Con2Will
-
-
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As soon as I saw that MoMF stops aging penalties I made him Venerable. Slapping on Garden of Nature's Rage just 'cause. Went with MoMF for Dragon and Warshaper possibilities. I spent a few feats on PreReqs and I've got 2 Feats selected, one makes Constitution to Will Saves though I can't bother looking up the name of the feat and the other I just made up for being able to use Wild Shape as a Swift Action.

The question now is what forms will he take.

Dire Tortoise for Round 0 Surprise Round fun.

Round 1, 2, 3??? Those forms I don't know. That's also why I'm leaving Feats blank in case of some great choices. The MoMF Handbook makes suggestions for best utility or strange stuff, I'm looking more for some really good forms to take with his 24 HD. Though I am pretty sure Power Attack will be one of those feats.

Also, might take Wild Armor to really boost AC. I'm tired of giving guys Monk's Belts up the ass.

I'm thinking of taking ACFs to drop Spellcasting from the Druid because he's only got 5 CL. Also, maybe take an ACF to drop animal companion. I already am throwing a **** load of enemies at the PCs.

[eggynack]

Swift wild shape is actually a real feat on page 62 of complete champion, though it has fast wild shape as a prerequisite. I would advise, as above, picking up a mantle of the beast. It has the same effect as the feat, except you only have to pay 18,000 GP for the privilege, and you get a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls while wild shape'd to boot. While you're at it, you should also pick up a ring of the beast (CC, 141) for your summoner druid, which costs 8,000 GP and lets you spontaneously convert out of slots one lower than normal, and as long as you're there anyway, you should probably toss each item onto the other druid, cause they're really good. Armor of the beast (CC, 135) is a lot less good, but if you're after wild armor anyway, it's a small price to pay for a bit of theming. Another relevant item for the summoner druid is golden desert honey (CM, 136), which, at 600 GP a pop, drops the casting time for summons down to a standard action. Maybe get belts of battle (MIC, 73) for everyone as well, and effectively get two surprise rounds instead of one.