Is there a spell that locks someone in a Polymorph or Alternate Form?

[incarnate236]

I was thinking of ways to deal with shapeshifters etc and thought what if you could lock the vampire in his rat form or the mage in a combat only polymorph to keep him from shifting back and using magic.

Does something like this exist?

[Dimers]

Closest I know is countermoon in Spell Compendium. It only affects lycanthropes -- forces them into their humanoid/giant shape and keeps them there for 12 hours. Will negates, SR Yes.

I suspect that if something did exist to lock someone into an alternate form, it would quickly get abused by players to extend the duration of powerful short-term spells.

[shylocke]

In spell called dire or baleful polymorph. Turns target into an inoffensive target( rabbit, squirrel etc). Save vs permanent iirc

[MonochromeTiger]

In spell called dire or baleful polymorph. Turns target into an inoffensive target( rabbit, squirrel etc). Save vs permanent iirc

anything with the shapechanger subtype would make that a wasted spell since they can force themselves back to normal form. and as some pointed out to me a few months ago in this forum (and as I had as a house rule before then) baleful polymorph may remove other polymorph effects but things like wild shape or other kinds of shape shifting aren't polymorph effects and thus wouldn't really be overwritten.

[Dr. Cliché]

anything with the shapechanger subtype would make that a wasted spell since they can force themselves back to normal form.

Out of interest, can shapeshifters do the same with Polymorph any Object?

[shylocke]

anything with the shapechanger subtype would make that a wasted spell since they can force themselves back to normal form. and as some pointed out to me a few months ago in this forum (and as I had as a house rule before then) baleful polymorph may remove other polymorph effects but things like wild shape or other kinds of shape shifting aren't polymorph effects and thus wouldn't really be overwritten.

Damn. Still a funny spell. Get charged by fighter. Now he's a rabbit.

[eggynack]

Damn. Still a funny spell. Get charged by fighter. Now he's a rabbit.
It is pretty great. Definitely one of the better SoL's out there. It doesn't have universal application, and this is one of the cases where it does not apply, but it's pretty rare to find a true SoL that does have universal application. Mummify comes pretty close, I think, at least as long as we're talking about living opponents.

[MonochromeTiger]

Out of interest, can shapeshifters do the same with Polymorph any Object?

as far as I can tell they have to be capable of taking an action (which they can do if polymorphed into a living creature such as a rabbit or lizard or other baleful polymorph results) so I THINK that if you made them a statue or other inanimate object that can't do anything on its own they'd find it a tiny bit difficult..

[shylocke]

It is pretty great. Definitely one of the better SoL's out there. It doesn't have universal application, and this is one of the cases where it does not apply, but it's pretty rare to find a true SoL that does have universal application. Mummify comes pretty close, I think, at least as long as we're talking about living opponents.

SoL? Still new to forum speak. Would horrid wilting count? My DM loves that spell.

[eggynack]

SoL? Still new to forum speak. Would horrid wilting count? My DM loves that spell.
Save or lose. It might also be classified as a save or die, depending on how broadly you use that term. There's a whole list of forum terms here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18512), by the by, though I don't think SoL is on it.

[Hopeless]

You know if they can use a Protection from Evil or Magic Circle spell to contain a demon/devil wouldn't that mean they could also seal away a shapeshifter's ability to change forms?

Bestow Curse could also do it although the real trick is something like an Amnesia spell that strips the knowledge from a target's mind provided the caster knows they can do that... this could be used to explain why they only shift on the night of a full moon the only time that particular trick could be beaten since the recipient is unaware of what has actually happened...

I believe the use of silver as a spell component is why I think that would be effective but only a dm can decide if that's the case...

[Jack_Simth]

It is pretty great. Definitely one of the better SoL's out there. It doesn't have universal application, and this is one of the cases where it does not apply, but it's pretty rare to find a true SoL that does have universal application. Mummify comes pretty close, I think, at least as long as we're talking about living opponents.Use Shades to duplicate Trap the Soul without the annoying material component. One and one-fifth will saves to avoid being trapped in a shadow-gem until the shadow-gem is destroyed.

[eggynack]

Use Shades to duplicate Trap the Soul without the annoying material component. One and one-fifth will saves to avoid being trapped in a shadow-gem until the shadow-gem is destroyed.
That does seem pretty nifty, though it feels like it's a bit outside the level range where this sort of thing would be particularly relevant. I mean, you'd probably do better with something as basic as imprisonment if you have access to 9th's. By that level, I'm expecting a save or die to either effect a broad area, or lack the save half of the equation.

[Red Fel]

This actually became a running gag in one of my campaigns. I played an ill-tempered lycanthrope, our party cleric was a Drow priestess of Eilistraee who had the Moon domain. Any time she felt my character was misbehaving, she slapped him with Moonbeam, and he went and sulked in a corner in panther form.

A few funny scenes like that. Thanks for reminding me.

[Jack_Simth]

That does seem pretty nifty, though it feels like it's a bit outside the level range where this sort of thing would be particularly relevant. I mean, you'd probably do better with something as basic as imprisonment if you have access to 9th's. By that level, I'm expecting a save or die to either effect a broad area, or lack the save half of the equation.Imprisonment has a range of touch, and permits both a save and SR. Shades for Trap the Soul has a range of Close, permits 1.2 saves, and allows SR.

The main reason for using Shades is because it's a very flexible spell. Single target save-or-lose (Trap the Soul), healing (Summon Monster VIII for 1d3 Avorals, who get Lay on of Hands for 66 HP each; 66-198 hp per healed per casting isn't terrible, especially when you can divide it up to a resolution of 1 HP across the entire party), Battlefield control (Wall of Stone, Wall of Iron, Acid Fog, et cetera), invisibility counter (Glitterdust), rapid transport (Phantom Steed), items (Major Creation), direct damage (Orb line from Spell Compendium, and a few Core spells to lesser effect such as Incindiary cloud, Cloudkill, and Acid Fog), hiding (Mage's Magnificient Mansion), Extradimensional Storage (Secret Chest, Instant Summons), and several other effects. It gets even better if your DM permits the interpretation that it can duplicate any Sor/Wiz conjouration spell of 8th or lower, rather than just Conjouration(Creation) and Conjouration(Summoning) (so Plane Shift and Greater Teleport, as well as Maze, Greater Planar Binding, and Teleport Object).

... and most of that is just Core.

[peacenlove]

Feeblemind and Dominate X. He can't shapechange if he hasn't got the mental faculties to do so.
Stone to flesh also works.

[eggynack]

Snip
Fair enough then. I hadn't really considered the fact that shades' main utility would be its other forms of utility. Still, you're running up against some pretty heavy shapechange based competition in terms of spells that can do a bunch of stuff. It's a fundamental problem with the analysis of 9th level spells, that most of the reasonable choices, like shades, fall apart under the weight of the few utterly broken options.

[Jack_Simth]

Fair enough then. I hadn't really considered the fact that shades' main utility would be its other forms of utility. Still, you're running up against some pretty heavy shapechange based competition in terms of spells that can do a bunch of stuff. It's a fundamental problem with the analysis of 9th level spells, that most of the reasonable choices, like shades, fall apart under the weight of the few utterly broken options.
Yeah, I'm not looking at it in terms of absolute power; Shapechange and Gate being some of the biggest powerhouses - I was looking at a Save-or-lose that's almost always applicable. About the only counters for that particular attack are Dimensional Anchor (and related effect), Wings of Cover, (lesser/greater) Celerity, Spell Turning (as it's targeted), and Spell Absorbtion (likewise).

[SinsI]

Put it into a container smaller than original form allows.