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View Full Version : PHBII, Druid Variant and Wildshape



Stormcrow
2007-01-28, 09:54 PM
I know its been raised before but i never saw a resolution. One of my PCs is playing the PHBII variant of the Druid and she wants to take the Warshaper prestige class. It requires Wildshape as a pre-req and the abilities it gives may actually be horribly over balanced when added to the new variant. Thoughts?

Fizban
2007-01-28, 10:12 PM
They're even more horribly balanced with Changeling. It's not like he'll ever not be in wild shape anyway, I see see no problems.

Ramza00
2007-01-28, 10:30 PM
I would allow it.

Aximili
2007-01-28, 10:32 PM
What's so bad about a changeling warshaper?

Everyman
2007-01-28, 11:25 PM
Actually, it calls for "wild shape or similiar class feature", and that's only one of five ways to qualify. I'd say that the Druid Variant falls under "similiar class feature".

I will admit that the class is AMAZINGLY powerful for melee builds, but keep in mind that she's losing spellcasting and progression of her shapechange by doing so. It'll all even out.

Stormcrow
2007-01-29, 02:12 AM
The last ability of the warshaper the level five one or what have is ridiculous for her though, its the ability to shift forms as often as she likes, which for wildshape is amazing but for shapechange its something she can allready do.

Khantalas
2007-01-29, 05:36 AM
The last ability of the warshaper the level five one or what have is ridiculous for her though, its the ability to shift forms as often as she likes, which for wildshape is amazing but for shapechange its something she can allready do.

Read it a bit more. If the warshaper already has the ability to shift whenever he pleases, he gains the ability to shift quicker.

Or I haven't read CW for so long.

Kaerou
2007-01-29, 06:22 AM
No, keep this in mind:

It does -not- continue HD progression for shifting.

At 10th, they'll still be restricted to 5HD forms

At 15th, 10HD forms

The forms they'll shift into will be subpar for their level, albeit with the special advantages of the warshaper class. And their spells will be less powerful.

As long as you impose this rule correctly, its fine.

Twili
2007-01-29, 07:50 AM
yea surely you qualify for the prestige class.

I'm currently playing monk 2/druid (variant) 6
going to monk 2/ druid 8/ sacred fist 10 (or 6 an 4 warshaper, dunno yet)
dso far it's been all good.

Shisumo
2007-01-29, 09:02 AM
Read it a bit more. If the warshaper already has the ability to shift whenever he pleases, he gains the ability to shift quicker.

Or I haven't read CW for so long.

The problem is that he gains the ability to shift as a free action - which the shapechanger already has. You just can't shift any faster that way...

Khantalas
2007-01-29, 09:11 AM
Well, we can let him shift as an immediate action.

Though I agree, that's a bummer.

Hey, I haven't read those things for a long while. I just assumed it was still a standard action.

Person_Man
2007-01-29, 10:11 AM
Despite the love that it gets on the board, a Warshaper is less powerful then a normal Druid, because the class does not progress in spellcasting or Wildshape.

Most of the benefits of Warshaper can be gained by a normal Druid that Wildshapes into a Large plant form with good stats. But the normal Druid will also have more spells and flexibility then the Druid/Warshaper.

So yeah, I'd allow it. But I'd warn him against it - he's already using the nerfed PHBII alternative (though in the Druid's case, the nerf is warrented).

FdL
2007-01-29, 11:16 PM
There's no way I could allow this. The shapeshifting variant was specifically designed to avoid these builds. They just don't mix.

If the player wants a Warshaper then he should stick to the regular over-abusable Wild Shape and related classes. Which is no good as far as I'm concerned, but it's your game.

Bears With Lasers
2007-01-29, 11:31 PM
Umm... what on earth makes you say that? The shapeshifting variant was specifically designed to avoid the overpoweredness of Wild Shape. A Wild Shaping druid/Warshaper will be significantly more powerful than a Shapechange druid/Warshaper. Warshaper gives the Shapechange druid bonuses, in exchange for not improving his forms or his spellcasting. So, um, what's so wrong there?

OzymandiasVolt
2007-01-30, 04:17 AM
The problem is that a lot of people spread an idea like a virus without checking it out first. They just accept what they're told by other people who accept what they're told, and it all leads back to someone not reading the rules correctly.

Ikkitosen
2007-01-30, 05:07 AM
On a similar topic, should a druid really have to give up their animal companion in order to nerf their own wildshape? I understand that they need to balance access to their powers, but just delaying shapchange or animal companion (although not their power) until 5th would seem to be a good balance.

Thoughts?

Aximili
2007-01-30, 09:39 AM
On a similar topic, should a druid really have to give up their animal companion in order to nerf their own wildshape? I understand that they need to balance access to their powers, but just delaying shapchange or animal companion (although not their power) until 5th would seem to be a good balance.

Thoughts?
Yeah, but they can't simply publish a book that says "from now on, the druid only gets these abilities at 5th level".

Person_Man
2007-01-30, 12:12 PM
On a similar topic, should a druid really have to give up their animal companion in order to nerf their own wildshape? I understand that they need to balance access to their powers, but just delaying shapchange or animal companion (although not their power) until 5th would seem to be a good balance.

Thoughts?

If the Druid just cast spells, it would be a good class, because it would be a full caster.

If the Druid just had Wildshape, it would be a good class (once you got to 5th level), because Wildshape is one of the most versitile ways to be a scout and front line melee combatant.

If the Druid just had its (non-Wildshape) special abilities and an Animal Companion, it would be a good class, because Animal Companions are often just as powerful as another PC, that you control. It is a common joke in my campaigns that Animal Companions are often more useful and loved then some players. At higher levels it'd be a somewhat underpowered class, but there are feats you can take to make your animal companion quite powerful.

So, to re-cap, the Druid is actually three seperate playable classes (Cleric, Warshaper, Beastmaster). Any Prestige class that favors one aspect of the class over another often nerfs the Druid class, but it is still just as powerful then every other class, if not more so.