Is there a way to transfer a not-dead soul into an empty body?

[HeyThereImBear]

I know that the empty shell race exists for that specific reason (They allow the quori to possess them, if I recall right), so I feel like there's probably some way to do that with a created body.

To give some insight on the situation: I'm currently playing a wizard/factotum 23 that has the components to create a body from one of my previous builds (One that tippy couldn't kill. Sources and build can be disclosed at request), but I can't seem to find a spell that simply transfers my conscience from one body to the other.

I also haven't looked very hard; my DM said it didn't exist so I kind of quit looking. Two weeks have passed and my next session is on sunday, so I'm kind of curious if anyone here knows of a spell that does such a thing.

I know there's reincarnation, but I don't really think that'll work how I want it to. Perhaps a stasis clone that is then altered?

[MonochromeTiger]

trap the soul or soul jar with the container specified as the body? I think I remember seeing a spell involving soulless or inanimate bodies but all I can remember of the name is "marionette" something.

[HeyThereImBear]

trap the soul or soul jar with the container specified as the body? I think I remember seeing a spell involving soulless or inanimate bodies but all I can remember of the name is "marionette" something.

Hm. I'll look into those methods.
The bad thing about this is that I only have one shot, because getting passed the magic immunity is a pain.

[weckar]

Permanency on a Magic Jar spell seems safest, as long as you can keep both your original body and the crystal safe.

[HeyThereImBear]

Permanency on a Magic Jar spell seems safest, as long as you can keep both your original body and the crystal safe.


trap the soul or soul jar with the container specified as the body? I think I remember seeing a spell involving soulless or inanimate bodies but all I can remember of the name is "marionette" something.


The reason that won't work is that it doesn't allow me to use an ex or sp abilities, and I don't benefit from extra limbs.

Or in other words, the str of 1365 that was supposed to be pumped through 6 arms is now only through 2. Cuts the damage by a large amount.

[weckar]

how about True Mind Switch?

[HeyThereImBear]

how about True Mind Switch?

That spell just might work.
I really really like that, except for the fact that I gain a neg level when the other mind dies.

But what happens if there's no mind in the body at all? Like, technically the body was never alive. It's just been "created" in the lab that I have in my right breast pocket on my coat. You can't mind switch something without a mind can you?

[weckar]

One snag: It's a psionic power, not a spell.

EDIT: are you at all capable of creating a pseudomind? Like a primitive warforged?

[HeyThereImBear]

One snag: It's a psionic power, not a spell.

Well, my partner decided to just experiment on himself to get to omnipotence, and he has the equiv of like a 20th level psion or psi warrior or something. I could probably do a 3 way swap.

Or a 4 way, because I doubt my silver-dragon companion would want to be left out of such an experiment.

edit: If it exists, one of the party can make it. no exceptions.

[HeyThereImBear]

One snag: It's a psionic power, not a spell.

EDIT: are you at all capable of creating a pseudomind? Like a primitive warforged?

Y'know it doesn't say anywhere that stasis clones can't be changed.
They're identical copies of the caster when casted, so I could in theory just operate and create the body I want.

[weckar]

You'd take level loss though....

[HeyThereImBear]

You'd take level loss though....

Considering that the new body can solo all of the pantheons of gods at the same time, I'm not too worried about something like level loss.

[weckar]

Out of curiosity... if you play a character that can basically break reality by punching it and bully the gods for their lunch money.... what's the point of still playing? Where does the challenge come in?

[HeyThereImBear]

Permanency on a Magic Jar spell seems safest, as long as you can keep both your original body and the crystal safe.

there's a PrC in "tome of necromancy" that makes this viable.

so this is once again a good suggestion.

[HeyThereImBear]

Out of curiosity... if you play a character that can basically break reality by punching it and bully the gods for their lunch money.... what's the point of still playing? Where does the challenge come in?

This is my favorite question.

A lot of people forget that there's thing think called "roleplaying", and since we've ground down roughly 23-26 levels each respectively, our characters have had a bit of time to develop and realize what they're going to do with that power. Bullying out the gods was not the original intention, but simply a way that I test the characters I build when someone says they want to see my best.


Eventually, I have plans to destroy a few planes with mythlars, re-create them, stop the bloodwars, and slowly but surely find a way to wage war on an interdementional scale.

also, OP characters are a lot of fun when you bring in the number magician class.


EDIT: Also, do you have any idea how hard it was to get the stuff to make that body? If I put that effort in, you better believe I'll make the gods my slaves.

[weckar]

Fair enough. I suppose it's a style choice. I'm a huge fan of Roleplaying, don't get me wrong; I actually avoid combat at all costs. Fact is that any good story needs somesort of equal or greater adversity to the protagonist's force.

[MonochromeTiger]

This is my favorite question.

A lot of people forget that there's thing think called "roleplaying", and since we've ground down roughly 23-26 levels each respectively, our characters have had a bit of time to develop and realize what they're going to do with that power. Bullying out the gods was not the original intention, but simply a way that I test the characters I build when someone says they want to see my best.


Eventually, I have plans to destroy a few planes with mythlars, re-create them, stop the bloodwars, and slowly but surely find a way to wage war on an interdementional scale.

also, OP characters are a lot of fun when you bring in the number magician class.

this kind of response is the main reason I never ask that question yet facepalm when a heavy optimization player looks at a character with low (or no) intentional optimization and says they're bad and deserve and deaths they get. fun and challenge are always always subjective and no one way of playing will fit every person who plays the game. so I applaud optimizers' willingness to play with the numbers and will help if I can even if it's not something I'd do myself.

on topic,I'm mildly curious what the prestige class is.

[HeyThereImBear]

Fair enough. I suppose it's a style choice. I'm a huge fan of Roleplaying, don't get me wrong; I actually avoid combat at all costs. Fact is that any good story needs somesort of equal or greater adversity to the protagonist's force.

It's gotten to the point where we're the BBEG, and we're doing everything we can to affirm that.


But when your "final boss" is a CR 4k+ creature that has something like 900 attacks per round, you have to build accordingly.

[weckar]

Your character doesn't happen to be Sythe Goemon, right? :P

[HeyThereImBear]

this kind of response is the main reason I never ask that question yet facepalm when a heavy optimization player looks at a character with low (or no) intentional optimization and says they're bad and deserve and deaths they get. fun and challenge are always always subjective and no one way of playing will fit every person who plays the game. so I applaud optimizers' willingness to play with the numbers and will help if I can even if it's not something I'd do myself.

on topic,I'm mildly curious what the prestige class is.


Is called "The stranger with the burning eyes".

From tome of necromancy, but I forget who published it.

It seems to be a little too effortless for my taste, but I could certainly make it work over the next 5-10 levels, if I wanted to "brain in a jar" my way.

[HeyThereImBear]

Your character doesn't happen to be Sythe Goemon, right? :P

Her name is Hilda. She's my favorite.

[Darrin]

Tleilaxu_Ghola's Psionic Sandwich trick (www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16939527&postcount=27).

Doc Roc's Magic Jar trick (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200516) is a little simpler.

[CIDE]

Ghost template from ghostwalk? Which...that said makes me wonder what happens if a ghost (any type) attempts to use true mind switch.

[weckar]

The power prescribes, or at least assumes, that both targets have bodies. I'd say a ghost using it or being a target would not work.

[HeyThereImBear]

Tleilaxu_Ghola's Psionic Sandwich trick (www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16939527&postcount=27).

Doc Roc's Magic Jar trick (www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=200516) is a little simpler.

The first one just doesn't work because I've already gotten my character built. The second is slightly more feasible, but still doesn't seem like the "right way".



Ghost template from ghostwalk? Which...that said makes me wonder what happens if a ghost (any type) attempts to use true mind switch.


But I already have my character maaaaaade.

I mean I could just apply this to myself, and I'd have no problems possessing the body, but then I'd be undead and that is not acceptable.


Most of these posts seem to be ignoring the fact that I'm transporting myself into a body that never had life into it. I don't really understand how you can swap your mind with the "mind of a sandwich", but even if I was to do so, without the PrC that I found in ToN, I'd still just be a basic fighter character. Which is the exact opposite of what the new body was made for.

[weckar]

Well, it sort of depends on how you are making the body in the first place, which you haven't divulged. Depending on your setting, primitive warforged tech shouldn't be too hard to integrate to give your creation something qualifying as a mind...

[HeyThereImBear]

Well, it sort of depends on how you are making the body in the first place, which you haven't divulged. Depending on your setting, primitive warforged tech shouldn't be too hard to integrate to give your creation something qualifying as a mind...


The body is going to be crafted like a flesh golem, with some 3rd party rules allowing me to weave in the traits that I want.

And frankly, if it had any mind in it, it'd be immune to what I'm trying to do. This pretty much will only work If I'm transferring my body into it.

Either that, or I'm going to just cut up my stasis clones. Make an unkillable army of hildas... *shudders* The universe doesn't need that.

[weckar]

So, if it had a mind, a true mind switch wouldn't work? But if it didn't have one, it wouldn't work?

[HeyThereImBear]

So, if it had a mind, a true mind switch wouldn't work? But if it didn't have one, it wouldn't work?

I've pretty much ruled out true mind switch at this point. Magic jar is the better option, especially since I'm trying to not get my companions involved in the change.

[Yogibear41]

I would just like to say hello,

I am also Bear :smallcool:

[HeyThereImBear]

I would just like to say hello,

I am also Bear :smallcool:

And for that you are my favorite.

[weckar]

Main limit of Magic jar is that is has to target a creature. Since you want to avoid turning your body undead.... it's a dead end.

[HeyThereImBear]

Main limit of Magic jar is that is has to target a creature. Since you want to avoid turning your body undead.... it's a dead end.


And so you see the issue.

I feel like if I became a ghost and possessed the body, that I'd be susceptible to things that would expel me from the body.

Though, I guess I could just grab turning immunity and a few other little "undead boosters" and do that. I'll have to check into ghostwalk in a moment.

[weckar]

Just so we know, why is giving the creature a pseudomind a problem to you?

[HeyThereImBear]

Just so we know, why is giving the creature a pseudomind a problem to you?

Because you do not want something with those stats to have any kind of sentience. My DM is waaaay too big of a **** to let me get away with something like that. It's STR score is literally enough to pick up the entire universe. A few times over, if I recall. I know for a fact that it's stronger than my other two party members, so I don't think they could subdue it, either.

And the ghost psuedo-template from ghostwalk won't work, because it doesn't allow me to use the BAB or the saving throws, and through that I'd imagine that any natural, supernatural, or extraordinary abilities.

Which, while I still can 1 shot any BASIC creature, against what I'm going to be fighting that would be utterly useless.

[Meowmasterish]

I don't really know about living souls, but if you're a Dread Necromancer and you summon, I don't know, a zombie. You can build an Adamantine shell, cast Haunt Shift and move the zombie into the shell. It is then a completely loyal Statue with a hardness of 20 ready to kill anything you tell it to.

[weckar]

Honestly, I know I keep going back to it, but I do think you want to look at the rules for the Preforged (Or Pre-warforged, or something like that. I forget the exact name). They had minds.... but didn't... Very Asimovian, at least, so it would have no choice but to allow the small time for your ritual to happen.

[HeyThereImBear]

Honestly, I know I keep going back to it, but I do think you want to look at the rules for the Preforged (Or Pre-warforged, or something like that. I forget the exact name). They had minds.... but didn't... Very Asimovian, at least, so it would have no choice but to allow the small time for your ritual to happen.


I'm open to it, I suppose. You happen to have a sauce for me?


And if all else fails, I'll just do the stasis clone idea. There's nothing that says my stasis clones can't be modified, and I can make up for that neg level easily.

[weckar]

As long as the stasis clone wouldn't be mortally wounded in the process, sure.

Anyway, I've been looking for the source for a while now, but I'm coming up blank for now... I'll get back to you....

[HeyThereImBear]

I don't really know about living souls, but if you're a Dread Necromancer and you summon, I don't know, a zombie. You can build an Adamantine shell, cast Haunt Shift and move the zombie into the shell. It is then a completely loyal Statue with a hardness of 20 ready to kill anything you tell it to.

But I'm not looking for a follower, I'm trying to take my character and put it in another body.

[HeyThereImBear]

As long as the stasis clone wouldn't be mortally wounded in the process, sure.

Anyway, I've been looking for the source for a while now, but I'm coming up blank for now... I'll get back to you....


Well considering that the current character has semi-un-overcome-able regeneration 5/fire (is healed by fire though), I don't see it being too much of a problem. I'll just have to work slowly.

OR just have my cohorts do it.

[otakumick]

If I remember correctly, ghostwalk ghosts aren't undead. They are Dead... they just don't really care about it... they are disembodied souls wandering around dealing with business cause death is no time to rest. Eg. not animated by negative energy, nor positive energy like the deathless...