Help with a katana spec

[Sinrus]

Hello all, I am wondering what a good build for a katana wielder would be? Any suggestions would be appreciated, race, feats,classes,ect. This character is starting at lvl 1 for a new campaign. I want to focus on heavy melee dmg with maybe a little magic. Thank you.

[shylocke]

Hello all, I am wondering what a good build for a katana wielder would be? Any suggestions would be appreciated, race, feats,classes,ect. This character is starting at lvl 1 for a new campaign. I want to focus on heavy melee dmg with maybe a little magic. Thank you.

Human fighter/cleric or samurai/cleric. Power atack ,cleave,improved initiative, dodge.
Also look into the various samurai prestige classes. But be prepared to.never surrender.

[shylocke]

Power critical, two weapon fighting ( although some of the classes let you do it for free as long as you use katana and wakizashi.
Combat reflexes
Deft opportunist.
The ever popular weapon focus and specialization

[Grayson01]

Human Duskblade with Ancestal Relic, Power Attack, and Knowledge Devotion.

Human Paladin Power Attack, assorted Devotions, Knowledge, Animal, Air, travel, & Extra turning

[eggynack]

Using the CW samurai is probably a mistake, as the progression of TWF is screwy as all hell. Really, the only justification I've found for katana use is exotic weapon master (CWar, 30), so your build should probably include that. Alternatively, cleric was mentioned, and cleric can make pretty much anything work with a high level of efficiency, because it's awesome. I'd skip any kind of dip into a melee class though. Just stick with a bunch of stuff that grants more cleric casting, whether in the form of cleric levels, or cleric PrC's, and toss some DMM: persist (CD, 80) on there for good luck.

[DustyBottoms]

Human Duskblade with Ancestal Relic, Power Attack, and Knowledge Devotion.

Seconded, with an asterisk next to Ancestral Relic since that's a 3rd level feat and some DM's will say no.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Personally I'd go for any Tome of Battle class, but probably a Warblade (Warblade 20 can even get you Weapon Supremacy, which is the kind of hyperspecialization in a particular weapon class normally reserved for single-class fighters). Ancestral Relic feat or the Kensai prestige class are useful if you want to pimp out a single weapon on the cheap, but honestly Warblade 20 is just fine for any kind of melee specialist.

Oh yeah, 2-3 levels of Exotic Weapon Master wouldn't be amiss, but since you'll be wanting to use your Masterwork Bastard Sword in two hands anyway, I wouldn't even bother taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Then again, if you do wield it one-handed, you could make a pretty good niten ryu master by focusing your Warblade levels on Tiger Claw maneuvers. It comes down to whether you want to do 2-handed or TWF, same as any other melee build.

[Metahuman1]

Human Warblade 1. Flaws should be Shaky and something else you won't really miss.

Take a Power attack, exotic weapons proficiency and weapons focus, and sink 3 ranks into craft weapons making. After that what ever feats you want are fine.

I advise getting a custom Legacy weapon to use for your Katana.

Also, at level 5, Dip one Level of Spirit Lion totem Barbarian, maybe with Whirling Frenzy. At level 6, Dip one level of exotic Weapons Master for what ever that trick that gives you str mod x2 to damage was. If you wanna keep dipping, A level of Crusader is good for extra maneuvers, and second level in Barbarian can get you Improved trip if you wanna combine that with knock down for a debuff.

[Grayson01]

Seconded, with an asterisk next to Ancestral Relic since that's a 3rd level feat and some DM's will say no.

True it also has some of the most screwy stipulations. "Choose an item you own. The item must be of masterwork quality, and it must be an item that once belonged to a member of your family. Alternatively, the item may have belonged to another person to whom you are somehow connected, such as another member of your religious order." So you have to have a mastwerwork item that belonged to someone of some importance to you which kinda implies you have had it since charcter creation (if starting at level 1 is kinda hard out side of Forgotten relms and it's regional equipment).

[Nerd-o-rama]

True it also has some of the most screwy stipulations. "Choose an item you own. The item must be of masterwork quality, and it must be an item that once belonged to a member of your family. Alternatively, the item may have belonged to another person to whom you are somehow connected, such as another member of your religious order." So you have to have a mastwerwork item that belonged to someone of some importance to you which kinda implies you have had it since charcter creation (if starting at level 1 is kinda hard out side of Forgotten relms and it's regional equipment).

They can always gift it to you for managing to survive to a level where a random orc with a lucky crit won't kill you and leave their heirloom sword lying in a ditch for the next second-level adventuring party to come along and loot. It's the sort of roleplaying restriction that a normal DM will work with you on.

[Red Fel]

Seconding Duskblade or Warblade.

Duskblade is gish-in-a-can. It gets you full BAB, weapon and armor proficiencies, arcane casting in armor, and a bunch of useful spells, many of which can be channeled very effectively through your weapon. Get a Bloodstone katana and it can store and empower your Vampiric Touch spell, which will basically be your bread and butter once you get it.

Warblade is Fighter Done Right. It also gets you full BAB and proficiencies, but instead of spells you get martial maneuvers which refresh in every encounter (and can be refreshed mid-combat with a swift action). These range from adding damage to your attacks, to overcoming DR, to performing two full attacks in a row, to swapping out a Concentration check for a save, to telling an ally to go right now regardless of their initiative count... The list goes on. As an added plus, the Warblade gets many bonuses from having a high Int, which is just awesome. Additionally, the katana is one of the trademark weapons of the Diamond Mind discipline.

Either can use katanas. But it's how they use them that makes them awesome.

Also, stay away from Samurai classes. Just a tip.

[weckar]

Kensai? Kensai.

[eggynack]

Oh yeah, 2-3 levels of Exotic Weapon Master wouldn't be amiss, but since you'll be wanting to use your Masterwork Bastard Sword in two hands anyway, I wouldn't even bother taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency. Then again, if you do wield it one-handed, you could make a pretty good niten ryu master by focusing your Warblade levels on Tiger Claw maneuvers. It comes down to whether you want to do 2-handed or TWF, same as any other melee build.
Well, you do need EWP anyway if you want to enter the PrC, to meet prerequisites, and while you don't need proficiency to use stunts with the weapon, you do need weapon focus with that weapon, and weapon focus has proficiency as a prerequisite. It's a somewhat annoying thing. The katana should probably be used THF style anyway, even if you have proficiency.

Edit: Do you qualify as having proficiency with the katana for the purposes of weapon focus if you only have martial weapon proficiency? If so, you could bypass the EWP requirement by going dwarf or something.

Double edit: Does that weapon focus count for the purposes of having weapon focus in an exotic weapon if you only have proficiency with the martial half? Probably, but this is reaching silly levels. I'd probably just, y'know, take EWP.

[(Un)Inspired]

A lot of people are suggesting Duskblade or Warlbade and those are both gonna give you moderately strong characters but What you really want is something like Druid 20. Maaaaybe with some warshaper levels.

Just wildshape into something that can hold a katana then stab the help out of people with your katana.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Well, you do need EWP anyway if you want to enter the PrC, to meet prerequisites, and while you don't need proficiency to use stunts with the weapon, you do need weapon focus with that weapon, and weapon focus has proficiency as a prerequisite. It's a somewhat annoying thing. The katana should probably be used THF style anyway, even if you have proficiency.

Edit: Do you qualify as having proficiency with the katana for the purposes of weapon focus if you only have martial weapon proficiency? If so, you could bypass the EWP requirement by going dwarf or something.

My point was Exotic Weapon Master is good, but not good enough to blow an extra feat on as a non-Fighter if you're going to go Two Handed style.

Warblade as a base class supports TWF decently, though, so I'd say Warblade 20 for Two Handed or Warblade 18/Exotic Weapon Master 2 for TWF, with different Maneuvers on each build. Throw in a splash of Barbarian if you care about cheese.


A lot of people are suggesting Duskblade or Warlbade and those are both gonna give you moderately strong characters but What you really want is something like Druid 20. Maaaaybe with some warshaper levels.

Just wildshape into something that can hold a katana then stab the help out of people with your katana.

There's optimization, and then there's "play a tier 1 lol". My advice is always going to lean away from the latter.

Although a Cleric or Wizard splash never hurt anyone.

[eggynack]

Just wildshape into something that can hold a katana then stab the help out of people with your katana.
I support any plan that involves druidry. If you use fangshields substitution levels (CV, 40), then all forms have the ability to hold a katana. It's neat.

My point was Exotic Weapon Master is good, but not good enough to blow an extra feat on as a non-Fighter if you're going to go Two Handed style.

Ah. Fair enough then.

[Vanitas]

I want to try a Duskblade/Iaijutsu Master/Blade Dancer eventually.

[The-Mage-King]

Personal suggestion:

Human Paragon/Factotum 1/Warblade X/ Iaijutsu Master 2.

Keep Sapphire Nightmare blade, since IIRC,it's the only one that leave an opponent flat-footed.

Aside from that Human Paragon and Factotum would both fill the role of "Gaining Iaijutsu Focus as a class skill", with the latter requiring Able Learner to make it stick. Sink ranks into Concentration and said skill, and you're good to go.

[Forrestfire]

I think that if you're going into Iaijutsu Master, you should sink five levels into it. Adding your Charisma bonus to every damage die of the iaijutsu focus roll gets very strong with a little bit of buffing.

[Vanitas]

Personal suggestion:

Human Paragon/Factotum 1/Warblade X/ Iaijutsu Master 2.

Keep Sapphire Nightmare blade, since IIRC,it's the only one that leave an opponent flat-footed.

Aside from that Human Paragon and Factotum would both fill the role of "Gaining Iaijutsu Focus as a class skill", with the latter requiring Able Learner to make it stick. Sink ranks into Concentration and said skill, and you're good to go.

You could also be an elf and take Aereni Focus, this keeping your BAB full and not delaying iteratives.

[The-Mage-King]

You could also be an elf and take Aereni Focus, this keeping your BAB full and not delaying iteratives.

Hm. Also adds the option to go Eternal Blade.

Vanitas, you have good taste.

[Grayson01]

They can always gift it to you for managing to survive to a level where a random orc with a lucky crit won't kill you and leave their heirloom sword lying in a ditch for the next second-level adventuring party to come along and loot. It's the sort of roleplaying restriction that a normal DM will work with you on.

Oh I know it's easy to workout with any DM, but it's a feat that almost requires it in most cases. Not saying it's bad just Wonky.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Oh I know it's easy to workout with any DM, but it's a feat that almost requires it in most cases. Not saying it's bad just Wonky.

See, that's what's weird about this forum sometimes. Even outside of TO, everyone seems to run off the assumption that DMs don't exist or rules that require them to actually interact with their players beyond providing NPCs to kill/interact with are "Wonky".

[eggynack]

See, that's what's weird about this forum sometimes. Even outside of TO, everyone seems to run off the assumption that DMs don't exist or rules that require them to actually interact with their players beyond providing NPCs to kill/interact with are "Wonky".
Assuming a DM vacuum just simplifies things by a lot. You can't just assume that a DM is going to help you out such that your optimization will work, because our theoretical DM may not do so. When you have a real DM, and you're providing suggestions relevant to a real game, you can suggest things that require DM interaction. Otherwise, it just doesn't have much of a place in optimization.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Assuming a DM vacuum just simplifies things by a lot. You can't just assume that a DM is going to help you out such that your optimization will work, because our theoretical DM may not do so. When you have a real DM, and you're providing suggestions relevant to a real game, you can suggest things that require DM interaction. Otherwise, it just doesn't have much of a place in optimization.

So...what are we doing in this thread if we are not talking about a real game with a real DM? The OP was rather specific that this was for an actual game for level 1+, not a hypothetical "how powerful a sword-swinger can you make?"

[weckar]

Meh, I think the main role of a DM, other than providing an entertaining story and experience, is to PREVENT over-optimisation. Even if something is rules legal, it's their discretion whether you can play it or not. Even a theoretical DM can restrict you to Core-only, after all (or less).

[eggynack]

So...what are we doing in this thread if we are not talking about a real game with a real DM? The OP was rather specific that this was for an actual game for level 1+, not a hypothetical "how powerful a sword-swinger can you make?"
That's fair. It's just why the assumption tends to be used as a default. Also, even in real-game mode, things that require adjudication are still more of a hassle than the opposite. It's not so much better to use RAW stuff than it is to use not-RAW stuff that you should never use not-RAW stuff, but RAW stuff is still better than not-RAW stuff, just because RAW stuff is assumed to be a part of the game by default, and not-RAW stuff is assumed to not be a part of the game by default.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Meh, I think the main role of a DM, other than providing an entertaining story and experience, is to PREVENT over-optimisation. Even if something is rules legal, it's their discretion whether you can play it or not. Even a theoretical DM can restrict you to Core-only, after all (or less).

Well, if we're talking hypotheticals here, the ideal DM engages his players and actively makes sure everyone is operating at a level of optimization that's fun for them and everyone else.


That's fair. It's just why the assumption tends to be used as a default. Also, even in real-game mode, things that require adjudication are still more of a hassle than the opposite. It's not so much better to use RAW stuff than it is to use not-RAW stuff that you should never use not-RAW stuff, but RAW stuff is still better than not-RAW stuff, just because RAW stuff is assumed to be a part of the game by default, and not-RAW stuff is assumed to not be a part of the game by default.

I can just about follow what you're saying, but I'm not sure how that applies to "putting a roleplaying/NPC-dependent requirement on a feat is weird because it requires planning with the DM". I just don't get why that's weird, is all. And anyway, Ancestral Relic isn't really necessary for any of the other build suggestions in this thread, it's just a neat and flavorful way to avoid swapping out the weapon you're theming your character around for random loot or a replacement from the Magic Mart.

Actually crap, re-reading Ancestral Relic I'd hand it out for free in most games I run, since the only real advantage it gives is not having to go to town to commission item enhancements. It's mainly a prereq for the Anointed Knight class I guess. I'd also de-recommend it for a power build, as feats are precious to melee types and Warblades (or Duskblades) get very few for free.

[Vanitas]

Well, if we're talking hypotheticals here, the ideal DM engages his players and actively makes sure everyone is operating at a level of optimization that's fun for them and everyone else.


Which is the same thing weckar said, so...

[Grayson01]

Maybe we sould get back to the OP..... So about that Katana Weilding BAMOF. The OP said wanted to do some cating with Katana wielding, did you want arcane, Divine, or maybe even Psionic.

Ancestal Relic could work with Soulkinife and they can make their Blade a Katana. But Psyci Warrior might be a very good choice.

[(Un)Inspired]

Maybe we sould get back to the OP..... So about that Katana Weilding BAMOF. The OP said wanted to do some cating with Katana wielding, did you want arcane, Divine, or maybe even Psionic.

Ancestal Relic could work with Soulkinife and they can make their Blade a Katana. But Psyci Warrior might be a very good choice.

remember the OP said he wanted a good Katana using buid so he should probably avoid soulknife.

I think that DnD works best when you don't treat it like a videogame insofar as building you're entire character around kicking ass with one wepaon specifically. You may end up with a very cool kensai/duskblade but what else will the character be? It the rare person in real life whose entire being is based on a single activity.

Rounded personality aside, building your character around swinging a sword like the dickens can really limit what other options your character brings to the table mechanically. What else do you want to be capable of other than sending people to stabbing town?

[Ruethgar]

I would suggest at least one level of kensai fighter for a free +1 hit +1 damage and proficiency with the katana.

[Sinrus]

First of all I want to thank everyone who has posted so far I really appreciate the feedback.



Maybe we sould get back to the OP..... So about that Katana Weilding BAMOF. The OP said wanted to do some cating with Katana wielding, did you want arcane, Divine, or maybe even Psionic.

Ancestal Relic could work with Soulkinife and they can make their Blade a Katana. But Psyci Warrior might be a very good choice.

As to this question Grayson I think psionic would be cool to round it off, unless you guys think arcane would be a better fit. Obviously as much as I want to bring heavy damage with the particular weapon I chose I understand that I will require additional abilities to make the character efficient. Please keep posting your suggestions it really does help me. Thank you!

[Urpriest]

Exotic Weapon Proficiency is actually a pretty nice feat for a Warblade, since they can shift it to other weapons if they so choose. That said, that might stop them from qualifying for Exotic Weapon Master.

[(Un)Inspired]

Exotic Weapon Proficiency is actually a pretty nice feat for a Warblade, since they can shift it to other weapons if they so choose. That said, that might stop them from qualifying for Exotic Weapon Master.

Actually the most damaging build I can think of with a katana is a rogue 1/wizard 9/unseen seer 10 with craven.

cast that spell that gives you 1/3 of your caster levels in extra sneak attack die then cast the spell that increases your sneak attack range. Carry like 45 katanas on you can then cast twinned telekinesis followed by a quickened telekinesis to throw 45 katanas at some dude you want to turn into a red mist cloud.

each katana will do 11d6+20 damage so...

495d6+900 Damage

[Yorrin]

I'll jump on the Iaijutsu bandwangon.

Cloistered Cleric 1/Human Paragon 3/Paladin 2/Iaijutsu Master 5

would be a solid start.

Cleric can net you travel devotion and such as well as being something for Human Paragon to progress, netting you second level spells, for what that's worth (reserve feats, mayhaps? Touch of Healing is always appreciated by the party). Human paragon gets you the skills you need, Paladin will get your Cha to saves and Iajutsu takes that Cha and puts it to work on offense. If you'd rather avoid Paladin substitute in two level of Crusader, which only gets your Cha to Will, but also gives you a handfull of maneuvers.

[Urpriest]

Actually the most damaging build I can think of with a katana is a rogue 1/wizard 9/unseen seer 10 with craven.

cast that spell that gives you 1/3 of your caster levels in extra sneak attack die then cast the spell that increases your sneak attack range. Carry like 45 katanas on you can then cast twinned telekinesis followed by a quickened telekinesis to throw 45 katanas at some dude you want to turn into a red mist cloud.

each katana will do 11d6+20 damage so...

495d6+900 Damage

Remember though, you need a motivation to do this with a katana, otherwise the character would use a different weapon.

[(Un)Inspired]

Remember though, you need a motivation to do this with a katana, otherwise the character would use a different weapon.

The character grew up thinking katanas were the business. Like seriously. He thought they were the jam. The only thing he liked more than katanas was clouds of red mist.

His room growing up was plastered with posters of katanas and clouds of red mist. As he began to adventure he found a way to combine his two loves.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Alternatively, Archer is feeling patriotic today.

[Vanitas]

I'll jump on the Iaijutsu bandwangon.

Cloistered Cleric 1/Human Paragon 3/Paladin 2/Iaijutsu Master 5

would be a solid start.

Cleric can net you travel devotion and such as well as being something for Human Paragon to progress, netting you second level spells, for what that's worth (reserve feats, mayhaps? Touch of Healing is always appreciated by the party). Human paragon gets you the skills you need, Paladin will get your Cha to saves and Iajutsu takes that Cha and puts it to work on offense. If you'd rather avoid Paladin substitute in two level of Crusader, which only gets your Cha to Will, but also gives you a handfull of maneuvers.
Don't you think calling that a "katana wielder" is stretch?

[Yorrin]

Don't you think calling that a "katana wielder" is stretch?

Not at all. As long as he isn't flinging spells around in battle he's still largely fitting the archetype. Iaijutsu is there for the katana thing as an offense, and frankly no class screams "katana wielder" more than Iaijutsu Master. The Clerical casting is for non-combat situations, and fits rather well with the eastern flavor of "mystic swordsman."

[Vanitas]

Not at all. As long as he isn't flinging spells around in battle he's still largely fitting the archetype. Iaijutsu is there for the katana thing as an offense, and frankly no class screams "katana wielder" more than Iaijutsu Master. The Clerical casting is for non-combat situations, and fits rather well with the eastern flavor of "mystic swordsman."

Man, I'm really sorry. I quoted the wrong post.
I meant this:

Actually the most damaging build I can think of with a katana is a rogue 1/wizard 9/unseen seer 10 with craven.

cast that spell that gives you 1/3 of your caster levels in extra sneak attack die then cast the spell that increases your sneak attack range. Carry like 45 katanas on you can then cast twinned telekinesis followed by a quickened telekinesis to throw 45 katanas at some dude you want to turn into a red mist cloud.

each katana will do 11d6+20 damage so...

495d6+900 Damage

[(Un)Inspired]

Vanitas you may be right. But how do you define katana wielder?

[Vanitas]

Vanitas you may be right. But how do you define katana wielder?

Someone that wields a katana, usually.

[(Un)Inspired]

Someone that wields a katana, usually.

According to Merriam-Websters definition of wield my example character is wielding katanas.


2 : to handle (as a tool) especially effectively


My telekinetic katana cannon handles katanas extremely effectively.

[Vanitas]

According to Merriam-Websters definition of wield my example character is wielding katanas.

(...)

My telekinetic katana cannon handles katanas extremely effectively.

Good for you, I guess. I don't think that's what what the OP wants, though. If I wanted to play someone whose main weapon was a katana, I would be thinking more along the lines of Silver Samurai than Jean Grey. But hey, if you want to juggle katanas and call yourself a "katana wielder", knock yourself out.

[(Un)Inspired]

I'm not really interested in playing anything like that (I think katanas are a little trite) but the OP asked for a build that does loads of damage using katanas while using a little magic. My build does a respectable amount of damage using a few spells.

If there are any stipulations on how the katana is wielded then I'm open to hear them.

[The-Mage-King]

Alternatively, Archer is feeling patriotic today.

Apologies for the image post, but..

http://i.imgur.com/dU9vfz1.jpg

[PraxisVetli]

The OP mentioned Psionics, and obviously Warblade's been brought up repeatedly.
Isn't there some PsiCrystal involving trick that lets you "take 15" on Concentration checks?
Great for the Nightmare Blade set, particularly Diamond?
To the OP.
I strongly suggest Warblade, Diamond Mind, White Raven and Tiger Claw Disciplines can roll up into a Fantastic samurai. On top of which, Katana is on of Diamond Mind's chosen weapons.

[Firechanter]

What, I'm the first to suggest a Ninja-styled Swordsage?

Sure, such a build won't has as much raw melee power as a Warblade. But it should be pretty decent. You don't really need EWP, just wield it two-handed.

Last year I built a kind of "Divine Ninja", which was a rather complicated mix of Cleric, Crusader, Swordsage and RKV, but she got to wield a Katana as primary weapon. Only mechanical benefit for Katana was the free Weapon Focus from Swordsage, otherwise it was just for style points. The result was pretty nice after all.

[Nerd-o-rama]

What, I'm the first to suggest a Ninja-styled Swordsage?

Sure, such a build won't has as much raw melee power as a Warblade. But it should be pretty decent. You don't really need EWP, just wield it two-handed.

Last year I built a kind of "Divine Ninja", which was a rather complicated mix of Cleric, Crusader, Swordsage and RKV, but she got to wield a Katana as primary weapon. Only mechanical benefit for Katana was the free Weapon Focus from Swordsage, otherwise it was just for style points. The result was pretty nice after all.

Well, any build with Ruby Knight Windicator is going to be effective.

[Haldir]

First of all I want to thank everyone who has posted so far I really appreciate the feedback.




As to this question Grayson I think psionic would be cool to round it off, unless you guys think arcane would be a better fit. Obviously as much as I want to bring heavy damage with the particular weapon I chose I understand that I will require additional abilities to make the character efficient. Please keep posting your suggestions it really does help me. Thank you!

Sorc/Wiz is generally considered the best spell list to have, followed closely by Cleric and Druid. I'd lean toward Arcane because you get things like Wraithstrike and Truestrike, which is going to let you pump your Power Attack damage through the roof, and arcane magic has some of the strongest debuffs and crowd control, both of which are going to aid you and the team greatly in melee capabilities.

What sources do you have access to, if you don't mind my asking? If Dragon Magazine material is at all accessible there are fantastic options for doing what you want and getting access to the completer Sorc/Wiz list.

Of course, there's also the standard Ubercharger build. PA->Shock Trooper -> Leap Attack for huge damage, which will make your katana damage shine through.

[Dr. Azkur]

I used to play Takenaka Masao. Samurai 1/Ronin 10/Warblade 1/Kensai 9. He was PRETTY BADASS. It was quite a pain until I reached Ronin and could get rid of Samurai, but from then on I loved it.