Non-spell-per-day divine caster types

[dascarletm]

I'm trying to build a campaign setting that has no Vancian type casters. I'm looking for tier 3 +/-1 divine casters that don't use that system. So far for the more arcane type casters I'm using warlocks, for the druid type I have wildshape rangers (I also need something to trade their spells for). There are other such changes, but is there a class that is similar, but has a more divine casting roll or set of abilities?

[watchwood]

Psions? It's a pretty streamlined mechanic.

As for ranger spells, look up Pathfinder's Ranger Traps.

[Kaje]

Crusaders fit the divine thing fairly well.

[dascarletm]

While psions are non spell per days, their spells don't fit the theme of divine casting very well. I could be mistaken. I'm also trying to limit the tier twos. So really it's more tier 3 and 4 with maybe a lower tier 2 or two.

Crusaders are on the list, and are fairly divine. They're pretty martial, but I could make the main church(s) fairly militaristic to make that fit well.

[Edge of Dreams]

Dragonfire Adepts from Dragon Magic are like Warlocks, but obviously with a dragon theme. You could take a look at both of those classes and create an equivalent Divine class based on either or a mix of both, or just reflavor the adept.

Dragon Shaman in PHB2 is another class that has some magic (auras and such) but isn't vancian. Again, reflavor needed to make them divine.

Incarnum is another re-fluffable option. And don't forget Binders and Truenamers (with fixes, obviously) from Tome of Magic.

Wow... now that I see these all listed out like this, I really am surprised that there's no direct non-vancian Cleric analogue. Would it kill your setting to just drop cleric-style magic entirely, or replace it with something like Incarnum or Dragon themed magic?

[Thanatosia]

While I admit Vancian casting is kinda meh for Arcane users.... it makes a great deal of sense for Divine Casters.... as they are being gifted their spells from an outside source, so it makes more sense that they 'use them up'. They are each small miracles/divine interventions, not spells in the arcane sense at all. That's probably why you don't see many non-vancian Divine classes.... the system just fits divine magic so well IMO.

[Bakeru]

I guess merely "spontaneous casting" doesn't count? Otherwise, Favoured Souls would be an option.

[Tommy2255]

While I admit Vancian casting is kinda meh for Arcane users.... it makes a great deal of sense for Divine Casters.... as they are being gifted their spells from an outside source, so it makes more sense that they 'use them up'. They are each small miracles/divine interventions, not spells in the arcane sense at all. That's probably why you don't see many non-vancian Divine classes.... the system just fits divine magic so well IMO.

Come to think of it, even the Crusader has stricter limits on their maneuvers than the other ToB classes. That definitely supports the idea that this is a deliberate decision by the writers.

[lianightdemon]

Ardent
just have each god choose a number of mantles that they would grant their faithful.

[Grod_The_Giant]

That's probably why you don't see many non-vancian Divine classes.... the system just fits divine magic so well IMO.
I kind of agree.

However, for the purposes of this discussion... I'd say that Incarnum feels the most divine-y of the alternate magic types. Essentia could become pure divine energy fairly easily. You'd probably want a homebrewed soulmeld for healing purposes, though. Something like:

Healer's Spirit

You may heal wounds with a single touch. Each day you can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to your meldshaper level × your Wisdom bonus. You may choose to divide your healing among multiple recipients, and you don’t have to use it all at once. Using this ability is a standard action.

Essentia-- Multiply the number of hit points your touch restores by the invested essentia. Doing so does not consume more points from your daily pool. For example, if you had three points of essentia invested in this meld, and you used it to restore 10 hit points, your daily pool would be reduced by 10 and your target would recover 30 hit points.

Chakra Bind (Crown)-- You may use lesser restoration as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier, with a caster level equal to your meldshaper level.

Chakra Bind (Brow)-- You may use restoration as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier, with a caster level equal to your meldshaper level.

Chakra Bind (Arms)-- You may use raise dead as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier, with a caster level equal to your meldshaper level. Unlike other spell-like abilities, you must provide the spell's material component.

Chakra Bind (Throat)-- You may use greater restoration as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier, with a caster level equal to your meldshaper level.

Chakra Bind (Soul)-- You may use true resurrection as a spell-like ability a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier, with a caster level equal to your meldshaper level. Unlike other spell-like abilities, you must provide the spell's material component.


EDIT:
Ardent
just have each god choose a number of mantles that they would grant their faithful.
That's actually a really good choice, and I'm kind of embarrassed for missing it.

[dascarletm]

I suppose dropping them wouldn't be detrimental to the setting, and I actually have most of the classes mentioned already. I've never had a copy of the book with incarnum, so I've never really considered it.

Currently one of the larger themes of this setting is that there is one major church. It has one God, and many saint like figures/demigods. They see the words of creation as a holy instrument and truenamers are one of the few "allowed" casters to exist. This is also due to the fact that truelanguage is hoarded by the church (it's seen as holy relics), and only they can produce these truenamers. Some exist outside of the church, but those are either covered up or dealt with by their inquisition themed branch. I was then thinking, would this be enough of a caster for the church, or should there be more of a priest like class? I'd enjoy seeing everyone's opinion.

Dragonfire adepts and dragon shamans are going to be from a nearby nation that worships it's leader (a great wyrm of unknown color). They aren't at war with this neighbor, but tensions are rough. (On a side note, has someone ever replaced True Dragon's sorcerer casting with draconic invocations?)

Binders are one of the most heretical people out there, and are hunted.

Shadowcasters are very few and while they kind of break my no Vancian casting I think they'll be on only for NPCs. I may drop them, since they don't really fit. Actually I think I just dropped them. I've always wanted to use them though...

Warlocks are strictly people who have sold their souls to the underworld. I've made a different planar cosmology, and they tie into that. They are mostly elves, but are also hunted.

I'm wondering if the lack of a "healing" class will impact the game negatively. I know it's not the most optimal path, but in lower tier gameplay I can see it being useful. The only class that can heal besides dragon shamans are crusaders. Do you all think that will be enough to get by?

[Ruethgar]

It isn't official, but I might suggest the Tippy Suggested Deadly Hunter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16770614) druid instead of wildshape ranger. It is a little more powerful, but druids have a lot more options in their ACF's and it is always nice to give players more options. Plus I don't really think a non-casting wildshape ranger could match a half decent warlock.

Unfortunately I can't think of anything other than the already mentioned Crusader, and the divine warlock theurge class that would match your criteria for a divine magic wielder. I would however agree that gathering the power of similarly aligned souls and utilizing it is quite divine in that you are doing what gods do essentially, however if you wanted to include gods crusader would do that better than incarnum.

[dascarletm]

That's a good idea. I'll probably try to go with that.

[Yorrin]

First of all, I'd like to say that I like the sound of your setting so far. Might run something like that myself, if I can scrounge up enough players.


I'm wondering if the lack of a "healing" class will impact the game negatively. I know it's not the most optimal path, but in lower tier gameplay I can see it being useful. The only class that can heal besides dragon shamans are crusaders. Do you all think that will be enough to get by?

Since you're expressly including binders, by 7th level (or 5th with Improved Binding) a Binder can bind Buer, who gives infinite out of combat healing. If you're starting above level one then I might encourage one of your players to go this route.

[dascarletm]

First of all, I'd like to say that I like the sound of your setting so far. Might run something like that myself, if I can scrounge up enough players.



Since you're expressly including binders, by 7th level (or 5th with Improved Binding) a Binder can bind Buer, who gives infinite out of combat healing. If you're starting above level one then I might encourage one of your players to go this route.

Thanks! I might end up trying to write it up into a pdf some day.

I'll have to see if they want to align with the main church or be unaligned with them.