E6 Duskblade

[G.Cube]

I'm about to run my first E6 game, so I was just thumbing through classes. Is it just me, or is Duskblade a really awesome E6 class? At level 6 you're getting:

An iterative attack from full bab, which from what I read is really useful in E6
A lot of spd from a pretty nice spell list, not to mention a TON of cantrips
Armoured casting up to medium, which AC is something you easily fall short on in E6, again, from what I've read
Arcane Channeling, helps with that precious, precious action economy
Once-a-day Quicking, which even at once a day, I imagine metamagic is super limited in E6
And a small boost to overcome spell resistance to anyone you attack, which I'm not really sure how useful this will become at this level.


It seems to me this class has A LOT to offer in E6, a lot more then most classes I've read through so far anyways. What does the Playground think?

[mephnick]

Yeah, it's nice.

I generally move some class features around so that everyone gets some nice stuff at level 6 though. Ending on a dead level is just mean.

[Nihilarian]

No one ends on a dead level because multiclassing exists.

But yeah, Duskblades are pretty cool.

[Seerow]

It's nice, but it suffers from a lot of the problems Duskblade suffers from in a normal game. Specifically the limited spell list.

It's definitely way ahead of the Fighter in E6 (since everyone gets tons of feats, you just get your tons of feats plus some channeled/quickened spells, why not?), but if depending on what role you want to fill, there's generally someone better. Duskblade will shine most if you allow Extra Spell to nab spell from other class lists (letting the Duskblade gain a couple extra new touch spells to mix things up and nab some utilities).

Also, depending on which version of E6 feats you're using (there's at least 3 floating around out there that I'm aware of) getting to Caster Level 6 may or may not be really important. My group uses the version where Expanded Spell Capacity grants spell slot levels equal to half your caster level, so at CL6 you get 1 3rd, or 1 2nd+1 1st, or 3 1st level spell slots. CL5 instead gets you 1 2nd or 2 1sts, it's a huge difference. I've noticed other feat lists have the same feat just give 1 spell slot. If you use the version that makes Caster Level matter a lot you only want to multiclass out for a caster prestige (I think you qualify for abjurant champion early enough to get some goodies). But if your caster level doesn't matter, dipping out for 1 level of Barbarian or other similar full BAB class can be a pretty major benefit and you don't losse too much for it.

[Mitchellnotes]

I love duskblade in e6, for a dex-based gish, i like duskblade 3, swash 3, grab some shadowhand maneuvers for +dex to damage and knowledge devotion for even more bonuses and max attack bonus. Get your caster levels back with practiced spellcaster

You end up with dex and int to str, plus anywhere from +2-3ish from knowledge devotion, + 5d6 from shocking grasp. Add on top of that fascinating illumination for a bunch of hypnotic patterns per day and you have a character that has something to do in almost every situation, pretty survivable, and with a great deal of flavor.

[Gemini476]

Can't the E6 Fighter work well with ACFs? Like Dungeoncrasher and such.

[Seerow]

Can't the E6 Fighter work well with ACFs? Like Dungeoncrasher and such.

It's not too bad. It's actually really good if you take advantage of E6's awesome "Lower point buy instead of LA" rules. Spoiler: A half-minotaur goliath is pretty awesome even when you are working with an 18 pointbuy. (The real trick is doing so and still managing 13 int at level 6 for Combat Expertise)

[mephnick]

No one ends on a dead level because multiclassing exists.

Don't ruin my roleplaying immersion with multiple classes thank you very much.

[(Un)Inspired]

I love duskblade in e6, for a dex-based gish, i like duskblade 3, swash 3, grab some shadowhand maneuvers for +dex to damage and knowledge devotion for even more bonuses and max attack bonus. Get your caster levels back with practiced spellcaster

You end up with dex and int to str, plus anywhere from +2-3ish from knowledge devotion, + 5d6 from shocking grasp. Add on top of that fascinating illumination for a bunch of hypnotic patterns per day and you have a character that has something to do in almost every situation, pretty survivable, and with a great deal of flavor.

Holy Crap! you've got a build that can add dex and int to str?! that's awesome what feats/class features/ race features let you do that? That sounds incredible.

[Kaje]

I believe the E6 Duskblade capstone is known as "Abjurant Champion 1."

[Seerow]

Holy Crap! you've got a build that can add dex and int to str?! that's awesome what feats/class features/ race features let you do that? That sounds incredible.

Dex to damage from the ToB feat.
Int to damage from Swashbuckler 3.



It's actually not all that impressive in E6. Getting your primary to damage is nice, but you're not likely to get more than +3 in the secondary, so it's only marginally better than weapon specialization. It's not like in a normal game where even your secondary is going to end up at around +7 or +8.

[Mitchellnotes]

Holy Crap! you've got a build that can add dex and int to str?! that's awesome what feats/class features/ race features let you do that? That sounds incredible.

Its actually a bit feat intensive, i like going all the way up to gloom razor which requires a total of 5 feats (martial study, martial study, martial stance, shadow blade, gloom razor), but i really like the flavor of it. With whisper gnome, its not hard to start with 18s in both int and dex for +8 damage. The biggest downside is that it only works with certain weapons.

[prufock]

Mystic Ranger is also pretty boss, especially if you throw Sword of the Arcane Order, Shooting Star, and even Wildshape variant on that. I mean, that's good in a regular game, but in E6 it negates the issues of ceased spell progression past level 10.

[Seerow]

Mystic Ranger is also pretty boss, especially if you throw Sword of the Arcane Order, Shooting Star, and even Wildshape variant on that. I mean, that's good in a regular game, but in E6 it negates the issues of ceased spell progression past level 10.

I don't think Shooting Star ranger is compatible with Mystic Ranger. Mystic Ranger loses the Animal Companion that Shooting Star trades for the bonus spell slots you really want shooting star for. I guess getting Sending 1/day for Endurance isn't a bad deal though.

[Snowbluff]

I don't think Shooting Star ranger is compatible with Mystic Ranger. Mystic Ranger loses the Animal Companion that Shooting Star trades for the bonus spell slots you really want shooting star for. I guess getting Sending 1/day for Endurance isn't a bad deal though.

The real gem here is Sword of the Arcane Order. I don't think you necessarily have to have the Shooting Star levels to be a member of the order. I'll double check.

[Seerow]

The real gem here is Sword of the Arcane Order. I don't think you necessarily have to have the Shooting Star levels to be a member of the order. I'll double check.

I was pretty sure that the requirements for the feat were fluff based, not actually tied to the substitution levels. I could be wrong on that.

[Snowbluff]

I was pretty sure that the requirements for the feat were fluff based, not actually tied to the substitution levels. I could be wrong on that.

I've taken a look at it, and it does look like fluff-only, yes. So you can be a sixth level wizard (effectively) and a 6th level ranger at the same time. This is why Mystic Ranger should not be a thing and why I'm using it in Terrible Campaign next month.

[Talionis]

Add on top of that fascinating illumination for a bunch of hypnotic patterns per day and you have a character that has something to do in almost every situation, pretty survivable, and with a great deal of flavor.

This can be a much bigger deal in E6 than normal games. Usually, monsters can out save these abilities, but in an E6 game these powers will actually be very useful.

"Arcane Attunement (Sp): Allows the use of a selection of cantrips 3+int times per day. Note that the sourcebook Drow of the Underdark contains several feats that augment your spell-like abilities. If retraining is an option and the sourcebook is allowed, make sure to take them for the first few levels. " and...

"Fascinating Illumination: You can get this feat at first level because you can cast dancing lights as a spell-like ability 3+int times per day, from the duskblade's arcane attunement ability. At the first few levels, the ability to cast hypnotic pattern 4+int (you gain an extra use from the feat) times per day (which is 2d4+ hit dice each time) is wonderful! Absolutely a must pick for any duskblade, until you're able to use your arcane channeling. As you gain levels and monsters that are immune or resistant to mind-affecting effects are more common, it's a good idea to swap it out for something else, like power attack.


Deceptive Illumination: As above, but you get to cast silent image instead of hypnotic pattern. This feat has some staying power, as silent image is a powerful spell at all levels, but it's highly dependent on your DM's style."

From the Duskblade Handbook



Duskblade Handbook: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=525.0

[(Un)Inspired]

Dex to damage from the ToB feat.
Int to damage from Swashbuckler 3.



It's actually not all that impressive in E6. Getting your primary to damage is nice, but you're not likely to get more than +3 in the secondary, so it's only marginally better than weapon specialization. It's not like in a normal game where even your secondary is going to end up at around +7 or +8.

int and dex to damage aren't that impressive. Getting to add both to str is amazing.

[prufock]

I don't think Shooting Star ranger is compatible with Mystic Ranger. Mystic Ranger loses the Animal Companion that Shooting Star trades for the bonus spell slots you really want shooting star for. I guess getting Sending 1/day for Endurance isn't a bad deal though.

It's a bit vague, but you should still be able to take the 4th sub level, you just wouldn't get the Bonus Spells part. You should still get the Improved Spellcasting part, because it doesn't replace anything.

[Gemini476]

Mystic Ranger is also pretty boss, especially if you throw Sword of the Arcane Order, Shooting Star, and even Wildshape variant on that. I mean, that's good in a regular game, but in E6 it negates the issues of ceased spell progression past level 10.

Wildshaping Trap Expert Mystic Ranger with Natural Spell and Sword of the Arcane Order.
You are an entire party in one character, what with having full BAB, full wizard casting, and trapfinding.


How do you treat LA higher than +4 in E6? Do you just let it go ever into actual LA (so LA+5 is LA+1 and PB 0), or do you just disallow it completely, or what?

Because a Sylph (? I think) (MM2) has 3 RHD and LA+5 as well as a Sorcerer level equal to its level+4 - so you can get up to Sorc 9 in an E6 game, equal to what Loredrake Dragonwrought Kobolds get.

That's pretty neat if it works.