The Planet within the Rift

[blturner99]

The planet in the rift is the world of 2nd Edition (Dimension).

[Sir_Leorik]

The planet in the rift is the world of 2nd Edition (Dimension).

Can't be. The Second Dimension was absorbed by the Third Dimension years ago. :smalltongue:

[blturner99]

Was it? Or was it at least partially consumed by The Snarl?

[Porthos]

Can't be. The Second Dimension was absorbed by the Third Dimension years ago. :smalltongue:


Was it? Or was it at least partially consumed by The Snarl?

Maybe that's why there is no Snarl. It was never updated to Third Edition! :smalleek:

(and before any smartypants make the comment, it couldn't get to the Dungeon of Dorukan because of the wards on the Gate :smallamused:)

[Ramien]

You're going the wrong direction. It's obviously the Next World, both in terms of storyline and edition. After all, it's using the pieces from prior creation/editions in its creation, and we don't have established characters there yet because it's not officially published.

[Keltest]

What if its the fundamentally opposite force to the snarl? a world of Pure Order, where chaos cannot exist.

[Chantelune]

It's Equestria ! Next book will feature the OotS as ponies as they fight the MitD who is actually the hidden son of Discord !

*already far away*

[orrion]

The planet in the rift is the cakelogical singularity that Chaos wanted to but never got to create in 8-Bit Theater.

The Snarl - embodiment of Chaos in OOTS - thought it was a great idea. The ocean that the Order saw wasn't actually an ocean, but blue frosting.

[Mousedigits]

C'mon, guys, you're missing the point! It's a portal to the Pathfinder RPG, and the planet is Golarion! Don't you guys see? They're gonna cross over to Pathfinder!

[GAAD]

No, no, you're all wrong. It's clearly an alternate reality where the controls for all the cameras that follow everybody around and give them scripts are. I thought it was obvious that the Snarl is actually Christof from the Truman Show guys! Come on!:smallsigh:
/sarcasm

[Mousedigits]

No, YOu're wrong! Unless.... the controls for all the cameras that follow everybody around are IN the Pathfinder universe! :O

[SavageWombat]

C'mon people, this is not a Wild Mass Guessing thread. We have one very important clue - it has an ocean with no fish in it. All answers have to incorporate this clue.

[Rodin]

C'mon people, this is not a Wild Mass Guessing thread. We have one very important clue - it has an ocean with no fish in it. All answers have to incorporate this clue.

It's in the Stargate-verse?

[Mousedigits]

C'mon people, this is not a Wild Mass Guessing thread. We have one very important clue - it has an ocean with no fish in it. All answers have to incorporate this clue.

Fine, It's a Pathfinder world where the GM hates fish. :smallsmile:

[CRtwenty]

C'mon people, this is not a Wild Mass Guessing thread. We have one very important clue - it has an ocean with no fish in it. All answers have to incorporate this clue.

It's the original world the Gods created, now scoured of all life thanks to the Snarl.

[Watcher]

In the final panel, is water splashing out of the rift along with the Snarl? Look at the bottom of the rift.
I think this is pretty important. Whatever is going on with the rift, it looks like the ocean was real and not some illusion, at the very least.

[Victor227]

Is the Planet within the Rift getting closer? We've seen it twice now, once with three gates destroyed, and again with four. Is the fact that the view was more in-depth each time indicative that the planet itself is getting nearer and the connection greater?

The Snarl, if the origin we're given is to be believed, is a product of the 'original' world made by the gods. Well, not just a product, it's the tangling of all the disagreed-upon aspects of that world. Could the Snarl -be- that alternate world seen through the rifts, and the malevolent force just it bleeding through into the OotS world?

[ti'esar]

I think this is pretty important. Whatever is going on with the rift, it looks like the ocean was real and not some illusion, at the very least.

It also suggests the Snarl tendrils themselves are somewhat physical. Which isn't necessarily significant, but at least it's interesting.

[SlashDash]

Is the Planet within the Rift getting closer?
I wondered the same thing, it's possible the planet is just really small, ergo, the same cords in Azure City Gobtopia are simply in outer space for it.

[Fearabbit]

I had this theory before (and made a thread about it) that the Snarl might be "unraveling itself" to create the world we see here.
Since the Gods weaved the universe from the same fibres that make up the Snarl. If woven correctly, you can create worlds; if done wrong, you end up with a Snarl, so the Snarl itself must have ordered at least part of its own being in order to create the planet inside the rifts.

In this theory, it makes perfect sense that there aren't any fish in the ocean. When the Gods made the world, they weaved it first and populated it later. It looks like those are two completely separate steps - living beings aren't "woven" from the fibres of existence and so the Snarl doesn't have the power to create them.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I think that the other planet might be what's left of the original world. However, we have seen that what was told to us by Shojo was not entirely true, and I think it is too early to make predictions until more is revealed about the nature of the Snarl.

[Sir_Leorik]

I think that the other planet might be what's left of the original world. However, we have seen that what was told to us by Shojo was not entirely true, and I think it is too early to make predictions until more is revealed about the nature of the Snarl.

Perhaps we can ask Miron Shewdanker and Laurin Shattersmith to report their empirical findings on the nature of the Snarl, and whether Shojo was being honest. :smallcool:

[Jaxzan Proditor]

I'm not referring to the existence of the Snarl itself (I realized that), I'm talking about some of the smaller details regarding it. For example, no one ever mention a planet existing behind the rifts, so clearly at least one detail was missing from Shojo's story. There could more things he was wrong about.

[Sir_Leorik]

I'm not referring to the existence of the Snarl itself (I realized that), I'm talking about some of the smaller details regarding it. For example, no one ever mention a planet existing behind the rifts, so clearly at least one detail was missing from Shojo's story. There could more things he was wrong about.

But those details were probably not the result of conscious omissions on Shojo's part (which has been the standard WMG on the Forums for the discrepancies between Shojo and Blackwing's accounts) as opposed to the Order of the Scribble never learning about these details. When they fought the Snarl and sealed the Rifts, the Snarl was awake and malevolent; they were not going to survive entering the Rifts. The only people who might have known about the world within the Rifts might have been the Holey Brotherhood, and they were a bunch of loons. :smallamused:

[Jaxzan Proditor]

But those details were probably not the result of conscious omissions on Shojo's part (which has been the standard WMG on the Forums for the discrepancies between Shojo and Blackwing's accounts) as opposed to the Order of the Scribble never learning about these details. When they fought the Snarl and sealed the Rifts, the Snarl was awake and malevolent; they were not going to survive entering the Rifts. The only people who might have known about the world within the Rifts might have been the Holey Brotherhood, and they were a bunch of loons. :smallamused:

That's my point. I'm not saying that he was lying, just that he, and by extension The Order of the Scribble (and possibly the Dark One?), don't have the full story.

[Sir_Leorik]

That's my point. I'm not saying that he was lying, just that he, and by extension The Order of the Scribble (and possibly the Dark One?), don't have the full story.

As far as the Dark One goes, I don't think he really cares about The Snarl except as a means to an end: blackmailing the other gods. But the Scribblers strike me as more meticulous on that end, especially Dorukan and Lirian, and if they knew anything about a planet in the Rift they would have let their comrades know (and by extension, Soon Kim would have let his heirs in the Sapphire Guard know). There's probably another twist that none of the readers have seen coming, but will probably make sense in hindsight.

[NerdyKris]

(and by extension, Soon Kim would have let his heirs in the Sapphire Guard know).

And this information was relayed to the Order by Shojo, not a member of the Sapphire Guard, meaning it could be intentionally false.. It's also possible Soon simply left out details that were irrelevant as long as the gates were standing. No point giving the Sapphire Guard any ideas about going into the rift to face the Snarl or making contact with any possible denizens of the second planet.

[Keltest]

And this information was relayed to the Order by Shojo, not a member of the Sapphire Guard, meaning it could be intentionally false.. It's also possible Soon simply left out details that were irrelevant as long as the gates were standing. No point giving the Sapphire Guard any ideas about going into the rift to face the Snarl or making contact with any possible denizens of the second planet.

the rift was sealed, remember? they couldn't have gone in even if they wanted to. That was the whole point of the gates.

[Sir_Leorik]

And this information was relayed to the Order by Shojo, not a member of the Sapphire Guard, meaning it could be intentionally false.. It's also possible Soon simply left out details that were irrelevant as long as the gates were standing. No point giving the Sapphire Guard any ideas about going into the rift to face the Snarl or making contact with any possible denizens of the second planet.

Shojo was the Commander of the Sapphire Guard. He was the one in charge of passing on the Secret Lore to the next commander in line. Considering Shojo was so freaked out by the destruction of Lirian's Gate and Dorukan's Gate that he hired the Order behind the backs of the Sapphire Guard to make sure nothing was happening to the other two Gates, Shojo's motives for keeping things secret was pretty much nil. The ones keeping the secret were the Paladins, because Soon Kim swore an oath, and only the honor of a Paladin is unbreakable, even by death itself. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0449.html) Soon wasn't a liar, despite what that paranoid fool Girard Draketooth may have thought. If he'd told his Paladins the truth and then ordered them not to enter the Gate, then they would have obeyed him without hesitation. The issue with Shojo wasn't that he was a member of the Sapphire Guard, it's that he was neither a Paladin nor Lawful Good. To Shojo honor was a trivial issue compared to the very real issue of The Snarl unmaking the world.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

There's probably another twist that none of the readers have seen coming, but will probably make sense in hindsight.

Seems to me that's usually how it is. :smallwink:
In all seriousness, I think we are both saying the same thing here.

[pendell]

As far as the Dark One goes, I don't think he really cares about The Snarl except as a means to an end: blackmailing the other gods. But the Scribblers strike me as more meticulous on that end, especially Dorukan and Lirian, and if they knew anything about a planet in the Rift they would have let their comrades know (and by extension, Soon Kim would have let his heirs in the Sapphire Guard know). There's probably another twist that none of the readers have seen coming, but will probably make sense in hindsight.

Not necessarily. We saw in SOD -- or was it the earlier strips? -- that Dorukan had a special summoning device such that people could be brought in but not out of his dungeon, and this is because he and Lirian were secretly violating their oaths to the rest of the team.

Given this bit of backstory and the nasty falling-out the Scribble had at the end of their quest, I think it entirely in-character that Lirian and Dorukan would conceal information from Soon and Gerard. In fact, I think it would be a very wise thing to do. After all, if they all shared information equally, Serini might have written it all down in her diary, and the first person to stumble on it would have the keys to ALL The gates at once.

So even if they were on perfectly good terms, it would make sense to conceal information from each other that the other parties did not need to know. As it is, Soon appears to have been a zealot who launched a genocidal campaign to eliminate all threats to the gates and all mention of them. Gerard was paranoid and set lethal traps for his fellow party members. And Lirian and Dorukan, whatever else they did, broke the promise they made not to have anything to do with each other and concealed it from the rest of the party.

The final dynamic of the order of the scribble was that each of them set out to protect their own gate and to shut out all the others, with lethal force if necessary. Under such circumstances, there are few reasons to tell Soon and his followers any more about the nature of the gates than what they already knew -- that it posed a grave threat to the world that must be defended at all costs.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Sir_Leorik]

Not necessarily. We saw in SOD -- or was it the earlier strips? -- that Dorukan had a special summoning device such that people could be brought in but not out of his dungeon, and this is because he and Lirian were secretly violating their oaths to the rest of the team.

Given this bit of backstory and the nasty falling-out the Scribble had at the end of their quest, I think it entirely in-character that Lirian and Dorukan would conceal information from Soon and Gerard. In fact, I think it would be a very wise thing to do. After all, if they all shared information equally, Serini might have written it all down in her diary, and the first person to stumble on it would have the keys to ALL The gates at once.

So even if they were on perfectly good terms, it would make sense to conceal information from each other that the other parties did not need to know. As it is, Soon appears to have been a zealot who launched a genocidal campaign to eliminate all threats to the gates and all mention of them. Gerard was paranoid and set lethal traps for his fellow party members. And Lirian and Dorukan, whatever else they did, broke the promise they made not to have anything to do with each other and concealed it from the rest of the party.

The final dynamic of the order of the scribble was that each of them set out to protect their own gate and to shut out all the others, with lethal force if necessary. Under such circumstances, there are few reasons to tell Soon and his followers any more about the nature of the gates than what they already knew -- that it posed a grave threat to the world that must be defended at all costs.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Okay, so they were a dysfunctional bunch, but they meant well and saved the world from The Snarl. The Dark One does not mean well for anyone, except himself, and those Goblins he deems worthy of fulfilling his vision for the Goblin people. Lord Shojo wasn't the one hiding something when he told the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard, whereas Redcloak deliberately misled Xykon when recounting the Secret Lore of the Crimson Mantle, and Right-Eye even called Redcloak on it. Lord Shojo even repeated the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard for "Elan's" benefit. He was concerned about the fate of Girard's Gate and Kraagor's Tomb, and wanted to protect his homeland. Redcloak wants to blackmail the gods by threatening to unleash a creature that can unmake reality. Who's the one who shouldn't be trusted, again?

[Keltest]

Okay, so they were a dysfunctional bunch, but they meant well and saved the world from The Snarl. The Dark One does not mean well for anyone, except himself, and those Goblins he deems worthy of fulfilling his vision for the Goblin people. Lord Shojo wasn't the one hiding something when he told the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard, whereas Redcloak deliberately misled Xykon when recounting the Secret Lore of the Crimson Mantle, and Right-Eye even called Redcloak on it. Lord Shojo even repeated the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard for "Elan's" benefit. He was concerned about the fate of Girard's Gate and Kraagor's Tomb, and wanted to protect his homeland. Redcloak wants to blackmail the gods by threatening to unleash a creature that can unmake reality. Who's the one who shouldn't be trusted, again?

I don't think Shojo would deliberately lie, but a good 60+% of the information could only have come from a source that is currently suspect: the gods. Nothing about the snarl or the first world or anything that happened that the scribble wasn't directly there for should be set in stone, since part of it (the snarl destroying EVERYTHING) has already been seen to be false.

[hamishspence]

It's possible that this planet is something completely new, created by the Snarl, though.

[Keltest]

It's possible that this planet is something completely new, created by the Snarl, though.

It was also stated that the snarl is incapable of comprehending creation.

[hamishspence]

At the time a world was constructed "around" it, trapping it, yes. Who's to say what's happened since then?

[Keltest]

At the time a world was constructed "around" it, trapping it, yes. Who's to say what's happened since then?

Which is exactly the point im making. Obviously Shojo/Soon were misinformed, or at the very least their information is outdated and less than helpful.

[hamishspence]

"outdated" can work, I'd say.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Can we at least all agree that we were (and possibly still are) missing information, even if we can't agree why we were missing that information?

[hamishspence]

Makes sense to me.

[pendell]

Who's the one who shouldn't be trusted, again?


"Trust to tell the truth, insofar as it is known" is different from "trust to know all the pertinent information in the first place." As Keltast ably pointed out, Shojo's knowledge of what is going on inside the gate is limited. It appears that not even the gods themselves know, or care, what is happening inside the Snarl's prison. All they care about is that it remained safely imprisoned and the world continue existing.

However, while I believe from context Lord Shojo really is telling the truth and the whole truth so far as he knows it to the OOTS, because they need to know it to do their jobs, I wouldn't put it past him, or Redcloak, to withhold pertinent information if they thought it necessary. We know for a fact that Redcloak withheld information from Xykon.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Werbaer]

Not necessarily. We saw in SOD -- or was it the earlier strips? -- that Dorukan had a special summoning device such that people could be brought in but not out of his dungeon, and this is because he and Lirian were secretly violating their oaths to the rest of the team.
It was no device. It was part of the design of the Cloister spell (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0532.html) that it didn't allow teleporting into the protected area, but allowed summoning from within.

In his fight against Xykon, he used this exception to gate in Solars.

[Sir_Leorik]

Can we at least all agree that we were (and possibly still are) missing information, even if we can't agree why we were missing that information?

I'd be willing to agree to that.

My opinion is that any inaccurate information the the Order learned from Shojo is because it is either outdated or because it was inaccurate to begin with. Perhaps Dorukan or Lirian's hypotheses, which they used to seal the Rifts, were close to the whole truth, but not close enough. As for Redcloak, any inaccuracies in what he told Xykon in the diner scene, can be considered lies, since we know that Redcloak lied to Xykon about The Plan. But anything Redcloak told Right-Eye should be considered accurate, at least insofar as Redcloak knew.

I feel that Soon was not capable of lying. Everything we see in his character shows an honest, if overly zealous, man. That didn't save the Goblins of Redcloak's village from the Sapphire Guard, but it did instill in the Guard a sense of honor and humility, as exemplified by O-Chul.