ChaoticDitz
2014-02-14, 12:41 AM
Obviously, the encounters (combat and otherwise) that will be challenging but not impossible for a group of T1 and T2 characters (full and spontaneous casters/manifesters, mostly) played on the higher end of the Practical Op spectrum will be way, way more advanced than the things you'd challenge the WotC playtest team with.
... Well, really, those challenges should be worlds apart from even something as relatively close as challenges for well-played Wildshape Rangers/Bards/Warblades, but that is only tangentially related to my question here.
But yeah. You just don't try challenging such a high-op, high-power party with the average slew of monsters no matter what level they are. In a way, this is a given; after all, there's a reason those players are optimizing to such power degrees.
It can make it hard for a DM trying to keep things interesting, though. I mean, maybe I'm the weird one, but I feel as a player I'd get bored if the only way the DM ever challenged me with were other humanoid casters of varying levels in relation to mine. I mean, it seems pretty difficult to make traps and legitimate monster fights that the PCs can't trivialize. Tucker's Kobolds tactics just don't work in high-op D&D, and while I'm not arguing that you should be expect to throw mundane brutes at them and actually accomplish anything, it gets a bit ridiculous that everything needs class levels or tampering with by a creature with those class levels to be worth much.
And no, I'm not making some binary assertion that all casters are the same, or that they aren't going to be interesting opponents. This obviously isn't the case. But it's a lot harder to keep coming up with new effective combos that won't eventually either get boring or feel patterned and somewhat forced. Especially since it's very rare that the players will actually see the more nuanced parts of the build that might give them separate interest from the player perspective.
What kinds of challenges can you give much higher-op parties that won't just fade into dullness? What are some mechanically effective, creative things a DM could do to spice things up so it's not all a lot of the same full caster drudgery?
(Or am I just wrong, and most players are satisfied by what I consider redundancy?)
... Well, really, those challenges should be worlds apart from even something as relatively close as challenges for well-played Wildshape Rangers/Bards/Warblades, but that is only tangentially related to my question here.
But yeah. You just don't try challenging such a high-op, high-power party with the average slew of monsters no matter what level they are. In a way, this is a given; after all, there's a reason those players are optimizing to such power degrees.
It can make it hard for a DM trying to keep things interesting, though. I mean, maybe I'm the weird one, but I feel as a player I'd get bored if the only way the DM ever challenged me with were other humanoid casters of varying levels in relation to mine. I mean, it seems pretty difficult to make traps and legitimate monster fights that the PCs can't trivialize. Tucker's Kobolds tactics just don't work in high-op D&D, and while I'm not arguing that you should be expect to throw mundane brutes at them and actually accomplish anything, it gets a bit ridiculous that everything needs class levels or tampering with by a creature with those class levels to be worth much.
And no, I'm not making some binary assertion that all casters are the same, or that they aren't going to be interesting opponents. This obviously isn't the case. But it's a lot harder to keep coming up with new effective combos that won't eventually either get boring or feel patterned and somewhat forced. Especially since it's very rare that the players will actually see the more nuanced parts of the build that might give them separate interest from the player perspective.
What kinds of challenges can you give much higher-op parties that won't just fade into dullness? What are some mechanically effective, creative things a DM could do to spice things up so it's not all a lot of the same full caster drudgery?
(Or am I just wrong, and most players are satisfied by what I consider redundancy?)