If Miko goes Blackguard... [SPOILERS]

[ElfLad]

...she had better not go Blackguard right away. Remember how everybody hated Anakin's snap "Oh, hay, i'm teh Siht nao, am i rite, lol omg?"

People are actually eagerly anticipating Miko meeting up with Sabine and going Blackguard on the same day she loses her paladin-hood. No. No one can get in to see the wiz-...succubus, no way, no how! I think Rich is better than that.

I personally think it's far more likely that Miko would try to Atone if she Fell. Maybe not right away, because she is very emotional right now and is surrounded by people she hates and does not want to show weakness to. She'll likely be in denial, but embracing evil is not a logical progression from somebody who we can tell loves the cause of Good but doesn't know how best to follow it. When she gets a chance to pray after all this, (if she survives) I believe the gravity of what she's done will sink in. I hope one of the 12 gods can give her some real guidance this time instead of passively allowing her to interpret her prayers however she wants.

If she does go Blackguard at all, I think it should only be if she's tried an atonement quest but found it too difficult. Only then do I think she'd be disillusioned enough to turn her back on what she's always followed. And even then, what has always been Miko's appeal story-wise? She's been a Lawful Good antagonist to a Good party. Make her evil, what makes her so seperate from Xykon and Redcloak apart from being less humorous? Why should an Evil Miko be vital to the story?

I have a confession to make. I have been very disappointed by the plot for the Miko storyline. The character development has been superb, there have been excellent jokes, but the plot has disappointed me. For Miko to fall, it has been necessary for her to see the worst possible side of the OotS at every possible turn. (i.e. Roy being a total lech even though he's usually pretty nice, if sarcastic; spending the most time with Belkar even though he's the least representative of the OotS as a whole; seeing Haley be greedy while not witnessing her more selfless moments; etc.) She had to come in at the worst possible time with Shojo and if she had never had that conversation with Xykon, (i.e. if she saw a hobgoblin horde coming from a distance but not him) I highly doubt she would have jumped to half the conclusions she did.

To me, when a plot has to be so contrived for an event to happen, I don't like it. A lot of people are saying that Miko's Fall was inevitable. To me, seeing the huge amount of hoops Rich had to jump through was proof that Miko loved Good and would never willingly abandon it. Now, I think this will turn out as a good story, but I don't see Blackguard anywhere in the immediate future.

[TinSoldier]

I don't agree with "contrived", but otherwise your post was spot-on, ElfLad!

[ElfLad]

Well, maybe "contrived" was the wrong word. It's like in 8BT where the universe exists to hurt Black Mage. Here, the universe exists to present Miko with completely misleading information.

Making TheKOT's sig even more appropriate. :D

[Igan]

At first glance, I'd like to say that Miko's dedication to Good manifests itself mainly in killing things that register as Evil. Then I remember she has shown the very rare flash of compassion--like with the dirt farmers' plight and the kidnapping ogres and all.
That being said, Miko is very much a person given over to anger and wrathful violence. She so far has never considered the possibility of her own fault, and taken steps to correct whatever mistake she's made. She's rather like an diehard Internet fanboy in that respect...
-She's made up her mind that the Order of the Stick is evil, and, by extension, everyone connected with them must be evil as well.
-Any new information is twisted to fit this all-important article of faith.
-She makes assumptions that fit this world-view and then treats them as fact.
-She refuses to back down in any form, not even in the reasonable give-and-take of a compromise or discussion--that would be admitting she was wrong, which Miko believes she never is.

So, the question I want to know is, is Miko more committed to Good than she is to killing people and things that offend her code? Does she hate Evil or the Order of the Stick more?
The way I see it, she's definitely more into punishing the 'guilty' than she is into protecting the innocent. That's a major ingredient of the recipe for tragedy for a paladin.
I don't think Miko will be a Blackguard in 24 hours. I do think she's going to have to go through a period in which she examines herself, her actions, and her beliefs...and she won't like what she sees. Remember, the idea that she's wrong does not sit well with Miko. She'll have a once-in-a-lifetime chance to choose to confront the worst of herself, admit she's been as wrong as she can be able the world in general and the OotS in particular, then begin to pick up the pieces of her life and seek forgiveness.
And I really, really doubt she's a strong enough person to do that and not break in the process.
And if Miko's completely broken...who knows what she'll latch onto as a means of getting herself functional again. It could be that the Order of the Stick engineered her fall for their personal amusement--after all, she believes that they're behind everything else that's happening. It could be that her chosen beliefs failed her--the Twelve Gods and her powers deserted her. That realization could lead her to Blackguard--after all, they have some metagaming in the strip, and Miko's wasted a large part of her life on gaining powers she doesn't have any more. If Sabine or Xykon happen to mention that Blackguard could provide her with a way of regaining something like her former might in relatively short time, just as Julio pointed Elan to Dashing Swordsman to make him use his own strengths more effectively...
I dunno. She just might take it.

All I know is, this beats the heck out of daytime TV.

[Erk]

I agree with OP for the most part, but given that there are already (quickly counts) twelve topics on the first page alone about Miko being evil, miko falling, miko's alignment, and miko as a blackguard, not counting this one.... could you not have found one where you could already put this!??!?!

Anyway, one area I disagree with you: Miko seeing the worst of the OOTS has not been that contrived. For one thing, the actions of PCs in any d20 campaign usually look pretty bad to a casual observer without much knowledge of the backgrounds and motivations. For another, Miko does not see the world with forgiveness and understanding. She wants to believe the worst of the world. This is not an uncommon view among non-paladins. Certainly she has been in one or two situations that are coincidental, such as the most recent conversation (which may be a coincidence because of divine intervention), but because of her job and the way she acts, Miko would have gotten into the other events that lead her down the path to falling no matter what. Eventually, some intelligent fiend would find that seed of arrogance and self-righteousness and push her over the brink. Hell, Belkar almost managed to do it for cryin' out loud!!! If Belkar can, left to his own devices, drive Miko to fall, then how could she stand a chance!?

Otherwise I agree with you. And at present, if the Giant were to turn Miko into a Blackguard within the next 200 strips or so, I would frankly be disgusted. Paladin are not Jedi. The dark side does not suck them in as soon as they make mistakes, and Blackguards are not supposed to be Paladins who have been turned to evil. People who make mistakes do not normally embrace the mistake and start doing it all the time. Time for yet another analogy:

say you are a strict monogamist and romantic who believes in having one person, doesn't like casual sex, and detests cheating in a relationship. Then, in a moment of weakness, you cheat. You hate yourself for it, you know you can never look at yourself the same, and you are stripped of all your Monogamist pow- I mean, your significant other breaks up with you. So, are you just going to turn around and never try to have a serious relationship again, becoming a complete one-night stander?

OK, this is a geek forum so the sex analogy may go over many peoples' heads (just kiddin' :smallwink:). My point is, being stung once does not normally result in a personality reversal, and Miko is crazy... but not in an unstable way. Her craziness is predictable and, in its own way, highly rational. It would be downright bad writing for her to suddenly turn into a bad guy. I argue it would be almost impossible to have her turn evil at all. It would be like (sorry, Godwin) Hitler deciding to convert all the nazi military into a social service for building cozy homes for jewish and gypsy families.

[Serenity]

While I agree both that Blackguards don't have to be fallen paladins and that fallen paladins, even those who do not atone and continue down an evil--or at least non-good--path, don't have to become Blackguards. However, it's pretty clear that the PrC was designed with fallen paladins in mind--the flavor text calls them 'anti-paladins' and they gain extra abilities if they were ex-paladins, including high-level paladins being able to immediately 'trade in' paladin levels for instant levels of Blackguard. Miko is generally accepted to be around 16th level. If we say 4 of those are monk levels, she can instantly become a fully powered Blackguard, plus an extra ability from the remaining 2 paladin levels.

[Logic]

It seems that many have assumed that as soon as a paladin falls from grace, they must become a blackguard.
Why is this?

[theKOT]

I think you are partially correct. Miko shouldn't immediately go blackguard, as it would just be out of character. However, you must remember she IS having a psychotic episode and mental instability is a very good reason for odd behavior.
As to the Miko plot feeling forced: perhaps it is. But for a LG character, especially a paladin, to antagonize a group of mostly good characters, the situations must be very convenient. It has to be "all one big misunderstanding" in order for it to work. Antagonist is Miko's narrative role, the very reason she was introduced(The Giant). And as Alfryd said so many strips ago, that led to her actions feeling contrived to some(not me).

But I like it. Then again, it does play right into my ship....

[fwiffo]

Wow. I have not seen such level of contortions to fit a character into a role completely opposite to what it really is in a long while.

Oh, never mind. Yes, I have. It was recently in #406.

[AKA_Bait]

So many threads to choose from...

Ok, here is a thought: suppose Miko gets captured, falls and is shoved into the cells with the LG. Might Sabine or Nale not try to convince Miko that one of them is a cleric of the 12 Gods and send her off to 'atone' in a way that totally fits with her 'smite the evildoers' attitude but which is evil? Then, when it's done, she gets blackguard abilities, thinking that her paladin ones had been restored? I'm not saying it's what the Giant has planned but it seems an interesting notion and mechanically I see no reason for it not to be possible.

[tojo102]

Nah, as stated elsewhere, what I think SHOULD happen is for a fallen :miko: to realize she is now in love with :belkar:

[ElfLad]

So many threads to choose from...

Ok, here is a thought: suppose Miko gets captured, falls and is shoved into the cells with the LG. Might Sabine or Nale not try to convince Miko that one of them is a cleric of the 12 Gods and send her off to 'atone' in a way that totally fits with her 'smite the evildoers' attitude but which is evil? Then, when it's done, she gets blackguard abilities, thinking that her paladin ones had been restored? I'm not saying it's what the Giant has planned but it seems an interesting notion and mechanically I see no reason for it not to be possible.

Except I have a hard time seeing Hinjo shoving Miko in a cell with the Linear Guild. If Miko ends up near the Linear Guild in her fragile state of mind, somebody in the Azure City prison system has screwed up big time.

[Justinian]

Frankly, I'd prefer a "humbled Monk-with-huge-BAB tries to make good" storyline.

[AKA_Bait]

Except I have a hard time seeing Hinjo shoving Miko in a cell with the Linear Guild. If Miko ends up near the Linear Guild in her fragile state of mind, somebody in the Azure City prison system has screwed up big time.

Reading 407, I have changed my mind a bit. The LG may just escape now that Shojo is dead. Remember that he just sent them to be imprisoned. We don't even know if they are near or in the cells yet.

Also, since there can be no longer any doubt that Miko just fell consider this like of wacked, but Mikoesque, reasoning: "The 12 Gods have betrayed me. They sent me a vision and a sign to do their will. Now I have done it and am stripped of my powers! The gods themselves are false and corrupt!"

[ElfLad]

I can see that happening, certainly, but I can much more easily see her finally crumpling in the face of overwhelming evidence. One can only live in denial for so long.

[pestilenceawaits]

uh oh the 12 gods are not happy with her.

[Puck]

We probably won't see resolution of this particular plot point until strip #507, or so.

We have plenty of time to talk about it.

[AKA_Bait]

We probably won't see resolution of this particular plot point until strip #507, or so.

We have plenty of time to talk about it.

Oh certianly not, but it's fun to speculate.

[theKOT]

I can see that happening, certainly, but I can much more easily see her finally crumpling in the face of overwhelming evidence. One can only live in denial for so long.
With Miko's steadfast determination, she could break the record! :smallwink:

[TinSoldier]

Wow. I have not seen such level of contortions to fit a character into a role completely opposite to what it really is in a long while.

Oh, never mind. Yes, I have. It was recently in #406.Without quoting and context, I have no idea what you mean.

[Yzorth]

I don't think Miko will become a blackguard unless there is some significant change between her before and after loss of powers attitude, like... her personality and view relying too much on her immunity to fear. I think I might be taking that thing too far, but it sounds plausible to me.

[The Extinguisher]

Personally, I think Shojo's last words and ther gods big show, Miko is going to snap. Her perception of good and evil will change, and she'll start detecting and smiting 'evil.'

It's not going to be all "I just fell, now I'm a Blackguard," but it may be quick. If she snaps soon, which she probably will, then she may indeed become a Blackguard soon.