Sniping through planes: feasible?

[Uncle Pine]

Hello playgrounders!
I'm working on a (very long range) sniping build, but before I put much thought into it I'd like to confirm whether or not this little trick really works.

First, definition of ranged attack (link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#rangedAttacks)):

Ranged Attacks
With a ranged weapon, you can shoot or throw at any target that is within the weapon’s maximum range and in line of sight. The maximum range for a thrown weapon is five range increments. For projectile weapons, it is ten range increments. Some ranged weapons have shorter maximum ranges, as specified in their descriptions.

Add Distant Shot (link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#distantShot)):

You may throw or fire a ranged weapon at any target within line of sight, with no penalty for range.

Then bind Malphas (2nd level vestige) to get the Bird's Eye Viewing ability and have your little dove/raven fly wherever you desire, seeing things through his eyes and thus effectively gaining "line of sight: whatever" (requires Binder 3 or Bind Vestige, Improved Bind Vestige and Practiced Binder). Add Plane Shift (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/planeShift.htm) if you feel like it.

Does this really work? Can I snipe random passersby miles away from me (or even on other planes) at whim?

[Human Paragon 3]

No, line of sight doesn't just mean "anyone you can see." Otherwise you could just use a crystal ball to use distant shot on somebody in a tower on the other side of the world. It doesn't work that way. Line of sight requires you to have an uninterrupted LINE of sight.

[Oko and Qailee]

Two creatures can see each other if they have line of sight to each other. To determine line of sight, draw an imaginary line between your space and the target's space. If any such line is clear (not blocked), then you have line of sight to the creature (and it has line of sight to you). The line is clear if it doesn't intersect or even touch squares that block line of sight. If you can't see the target (for instance, if you're blind or the target is invisible), you can't have line of sight to it even if you could draw an unblocked line between your space and the target's.


I don't know much about the specific birds eye viewing ability you're speaking of. But if there is a bird seeing for you then no, you do not have line of sight. The bird has line of sight and is seeing for you.

However, technically, I would argue by RAW it does work in any other exploitable case you can think of, as long as your character can see them, they can hit them. Not sure what kinda cases would fall into this.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Sure just haves someone cast gate.

However, technically, I would argue by RAW it does work in any other exploitable case you can think of, as long as your character can see them, they can hit them. Not sure what kinda cases would fall into this.
Nope because by RAW it only eliminates the penalty for range, it doesn't eliminate the need for line of effect.

You can fire at someone 10ft away behind a wall of force without penalty but the wall of force still blocks the attack.

[Uncle Pine]

Nope because by RAW it only eliminates the penalty for range, it doesn't eliminate the need for line of effect.

SRD says no: ranged attacks don't require line of effect. In fact, "you can shoot or throw at any target that is within the weapon’s maximum range and in line of sight".


I don't know much about the specific birds eye viewing ability you're speaking of. But if there is a bird seeing for you then no, you do not have line of sight. The bird has line of sight and is seeing for you.

If I see through the bird's eyes, how can I not have line of sight with something if the bird has line of sight?
Bird's Eye Viewing's wording is the following:

At will, you can summon a dove or a raven to aid your power of observation. (Use the statistics for a raven regardless of the creature's form.) The bird appears perched on your shoulder. You have complete control over its actions, and you can see what it sees and hear what it hears. Use the bird's skill checks to determine the results of its actions and observations (i.e. Bluff, Search, Spot, Listen), but use your skill bonuses to derive information from its observations (i.e. Knowledge, Sense Motive, or Spellcraft to identify a spell). If you have the trapfinding ability, you can use the bird to find traps so long as doing so doesn't require it to manipulate an object. The bird cannot talk. You can have only one bird summoned at a time. It remains until you summon another dove or raven, mentally dismiss it (a standard action), or stop binding with Malphas.
Since I see what the bird sees, why shouldn't I start to draw the imaginary line from the bird's square to determine whether or not I have line of sight with someone?


You can fire at someone 10ft away behind a wall of force without penalty but the wall of force still blocks the attack.
It's funny because by RAW a wall of force only blocks breath weapons, spells and both ethereal and material creatures. It doesn't blocks objects. :smallbiggrin:

[Segev]

"Line of Sight" doesn't mean "can you see it?" It means you have a line between you and the target along which you can see it.

There is no line between you and the target through which you can see it in your proposed example. There is magic letting you see despite having a broken line of sight.

[Lightlawbliss]

SRD says no: ranged attacks don't require line of effect. In fact, "you can shoot or throw at any target that is within the weapon’s maximum range and in line of sight"....
The relivent rule is in the combat section under cover

Total Cover: If you don’t have line of effect to your target (for
instance, if he is completely behind a high wall), he is considered to
have total cover from you. You can’t make an attack against a target
that has total cover.

[Lord Vukodlak]

The relivent rule is in the combat section under cover

Thank you.

[shylocke]

High level divinators can cast spells through scrying items. Arcane archer gets homing arrows. Buy a bow of true arrows. It gives an plus 20 to hit. You can use a ring gate if a rogue points the second ring at you target.

[Uncle Pine]

The relivent rule is in the combat section under cover

It seems that this settles the matter. Thank you!