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Saph
2007-01-29, 05:38 AM
I don't know the Planescape setting very well, so could someone please help me out here?

At the very end of last session, our party rogue/fighter found a weird sword with a blade that looked like flowing water. The DM called for Knowledge (Planes) checks and said "please let somebody make this . . ." I rolled high and got told that it was a githyanki silversword. Apparently the githyanki don't like non-githyanki to have them, and try and get them back if one goes missing, or something like that.

Thing is, while my character apparently knows about githyanki and their weapons, I don't, so here are a few questions for the Planescape experts out there:

1) Exactly how upset do githyanki get over missing silverswords?
2) Do they have some way to track them? This one was caught in some pocket dimension or something for a while, until we picked it up. If they do have some way to track silverswords, how long would it take for them to get around to doing it?
3) I told what I knew to the party rogue (githyanki, angry, bad), and he just shrugged and went back to playing with his shiny new sword. Would it be a good idea for me to keep my distance from him for a while?

- Saph

Caewil
2007-01-29, 05:40 AM
Definitely a plot hook. Be prepared to fight swarms of Githyanki.

Yuki Akuma
2007-01-29, 06:15 AM
Githyanki can track silverswords as easily as any spellcasters can track specific objects. That is, extremely easily with the right divinations.

Githyanki hate non-githyanki using their silverswords. They're not even that good (the only special power being the ability to sever astral threads)...

Ikkitosen
2007-01-29, 07:21 AM
Yeah, but you might have some Githyanki general's sword that has been lost for a while. 2nd-ed. style it may be vorpal, dancing or whatever else. Githyanki never give up on getting their swords back either, and they'll not just accept it back - they'll destroy you for having the audacity to possess it.

If you want a githyanki plot then cool, but you'll probably die if it's done properly.

Kesnit
2007-01-29, 07:45 AM
Githyanki hate non-githyanki using their silverswords. They're not even that good (the only special power being the ability to sever astral threads)...

I've noticed the same thing. While it is nice to have a sword that can kill with one shot, the circumstances of that one-shot are very limited. Although given that githyanki live on the Asteral Plane, maybe they see more silver threads to sever than those from the Material.

DeathQuaker
2007-01-29, 07:49 AM
I don't know the Planescape setting very well, so could someone please help me out here?

As a general FYI: http://www.planewalker.com -- your friend if you want to know Planescape better.

Though with this particular issue I know more from Baldur's Gate II and Neverwinter Nights II, which contains a lot of lore about silver swords.


1) Exactly how upset do githyanki get over missing silverswords?

Very. Very yes.



2) Do they have some way to track them? This one was caught in some pocket dimension or something for a while, until we picked it up. If they do have some way to track silverswords, how long would it take for them to get around to doing it?

They generally find them at the speed of plot. In other words, it may have been hidden away for eons and their abilities to track it may have failed, but now that it's in the hands of PCs.... well, maybe the GM just thought it would be nice for someone in the party to have a Silver Sword, but I agree with the others this is likely a plot hook.

I'm not sure HOW they do it, but I imagine probably psionically.



3) I told what I knew to the party rogue (githyanki, angry, bad), and he just shrugged and went back to playing with his shiny new sword. Would it be a good idea for me to keep my distance from him for a while?

Very. Very yes.

Saph
2007-01-29, 07:57 AM
Ah. Thanks for the info.

I think I'll go and start working on some escape plans. Wish I was high enough level to cast teleport.

- Saph

Marius
2007-01-29, 08:01 AM
Your DM has been playing NWN 2

The Vorpal Tribble
2007-01-29, 08:01 AM
Just thought that I might mention that exact stats and abilities for the githyanki Silver Sword can be found in the Expanded Psionics Handbook, p. 167. Even shows how to make one.

PinkysBrain
2007-01-29, 08:04 AM
If the rogue is not in bad standing back home I don't see why he wouldn't be allowed to carry it. It could just as easily be custom treasure from the DM designed for the fighter/rogue as a plot device ...

It can disrupt psionic casters as well as attack astral travelers BTW. You probably won't encounter many people using astral projection (9th level) but psionic casters can be a lot more frequent.

The Vorpal Tribble
2007-01-29, 08:10 AM
Although I must admit that a weapon which only works against people using a 9th level spell to travel the planes is a bit limited.
Err, its considered a +1 silvered greatsword in general along with its other properties. Sounds useful to me.

PinkysBrain
2007-01-29, 08:13 AM
Err, its considered a +1 silvered greatsword in general along with its other properties. Sounds useful to me.
Sure, but if it's ability to sever astral cords was it's only advantage over a +1 alchemical silver greatsword it would be a hideously overpriced +1 sword for most people ... since you couldn't sell it, and you had the chance of being hunted for even having it it would be net loss to do so. I missed that it could disrupt the ability to use psionics, that makes owning it worth it in a psionics heavy campaign.

Meat Shield
2007-01-29, 10:16 AM
Oh dear, silver Gith swords. Back in 2nd Ed, we got four of them at once (can't remember how, think it was a Githyanki "arms-dealer" we knocked off). And, not listening to that nagging voice in the back of our heads saying something about this is our DM - he NEVER gives us good stuff without doom fast on its heels! - we pranced about with our shiny new swords.

Four running battles latter, our flying boat is kindling in a desert somewhere, half the party is dead, the rest are all at single digit hit points, and we call in a favor to a dragon to have him drop off the swords at an enemy nation's slavers town about twenty miles away. (To the guards in the central keep - "Here, hold these.")

DM said we could see the flames that night from that twenty miles away. Good times, good times.

So, not to be a complete "me too", yes, Gith tend to get a little pissy about their swords. And stay away from the rogue for a few days.

Munchy
2007-01-29, 10:45 AM
Given that the Githyanki can and will track you across the plains for this sword I would recommend getting rid of it. I would recommend selling it/trading it back to them and then using that money to get something more usefull to the party. Of course, you should be carefull on how you go about this. I would recommend:

1. Do not take the sword to your first encounter with them. Make an imprint in wax to prove that you have it.

2. Choose a safe meeting point and make sure that those at the meeting do not know exactly where the sword is being kept. Stress this point with the Githyanki.

3. Determine the fair market value for the sword and ask for that. Trade it for gp or an item of equal value.

4. As your bargaining chip, threaten to break the sword or give it to some creature(s) that would make retrieving it a nightmare for the Githyanki. Say, going to Celestia(?) and giving it as a present to Bahamut.

5. Include as part of the deal that the Githyanki will not attempt to seek retribution once the sword has been delivered.

6. Arrange the final exchange through a powerfull third party that can be trusted to act as an escrow agent (Possibly for a fee). If that is not possible, then choose a location where a Githyanki betrayal would be difficult or near impossible. E.g. someplace in Celestia that is crawling with celestials.

This should allow you to profit from the sword, and avoid the harassment from the Githyanki.

PinkysBrain
2007-01-29, 10:49 AM
You can cast non-detection and magic aura on it.

Neo
2007-01-29, 10:49 AM
yeah, saying Gith may get slightly upset about someone getting a silversword i like saying the Demon Princes are passive aggressive.

I think they can sense the silversword from anywhere on the plane they are on.

And your party rogue is probably plotting your downfall already. Being a rogue that may or may not have anything to do with being a gith.

Saph
2007-01-29, 11:00 AM
You can cast non-detection and magic aura on it.

Might work, although nondetection only lasts 1 hour/level, and I'd have to scribe the spell.


And your party rogue is probably plotting your downfall already.

It's more that he's the classic CN type. Whenever you tell him to do something, he'll either do the opposite or something completely different, whichever he thinks will annoy you more. He does generally help the party, but doesn't take advice well.

Munchy, the suggestions helped, but we're only 6th level, and I'm not sure we could do much of that stuff with the resources available to us. (I have no idea how we'd get to Celestia, and we're a ways away from any city at the moment.)

- Saph

Nerd-o-rama
2007-01-29, 08:42 PM
I remember getting the Silver Sword in Baldur's Gate II (though that was a +3 Vorpal model). Good times. I was glad I'd paid for my magic license when they came to get it back. Nutjobs attacking me in the middle of the Promenade...

Delcan
2007-01-29, 08:50 PM
The general consensus is indeed correct - you're expletive'd. Gith value their silver swords the same way that dragons value their hoard. More, even. There is no conceivable way that any non-githyanki could ever wield a silver sword and remain safe - not even an epic character.

My advice is to get real familiar with as much of githyanki customs as you can, and prostrate your sorry butt before them as you very, VERY humbly give it back. And maybe then they won't kill you. If you've got someone in the party with a really hardcore Diplomacy roll, you might even make friends.

Mewtarthio
2007-01-29, 09:30 PM
Another note: If you make a Knowledge check, you should actually, y'know, get some knowledge. Like maybe the fact that your shiny new sword will lead to your horrible demise. Next time you make a Knowledge check and don't know what it is, ask your DM for some knowledge.

starwoof
2007-01-29, 09:41 PM
There is no conceivable way that any non-githyanki could ever wield a silver sword and remain safe - not even an epic character.

Thats not entirely true. There are no githyanki above level 16, as the lich queen eats their souls around that point, no exceptions. They may have that red dragon pact but I doubt that after the epic characters slaughter a half dozen reds they'll be willing to send more.

Now at 6th level, they wont slow down. I doubt your DM knows it, but githyanki actually have a prestige class dedicated to locating silver-swords. When they come after you you might want to just hand the sword over, but the gith that are there will probably still attack you on the basis of not being githyanki.


My advice is to get real familiar with as much of githyanki customs as you can, and prostrate your sorry butt before them as you very, VERY humbly give it back. And maybe then they won't kill you. If you've got someone in the party with a really hardcore Diplomacy roll, you might even make friends.
I can help! You cant make friends with githaynki. They consider all non-githyanki life worthless.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-01-29, 09:56 PM
Given that the Githyanki can and will track you across the plains for this sword I would recommend getting rid of it. I would recommend selling it/trading it back to them and then using that money to get something more usefull to the party. Of course, you should be carefull on how you go about this. I would recommend:

1. Do not take the sword to your first encounter with them. Make an imprint in wax to prove that you have it.

2. Choose a safe meeting point and make sure that those at the meeting do not know exactly where the sword is being kept. Stress this point with the Githyanki.

3. Determine the fair market value for the sword and ask for that. Trade it for gp or an item of equal value.

4. As your bargaining chip, threaten to break the sword or give it to some creature(s) that would make retrieving it a nightmare for the Githyanki. Say, going to Celestia(?) and giving it as a present to Bahamut.

5. Include as part of the deal that the Githyanki will not attempt to seek retribution once the sword has been delivered.

6. Arrange the final exchange through a powerfull third party that can be trusted to act as an escrow agent (Possibly for a fee). If that is not possible, then choose a location where a Githyanki betrayal would be difficult or near impossible. E.g. someplace in Celestia that is crawling with celestials.

This should allow you to profit from the sword, and avoid the harassment from the Githyanki.

Or if you really want to have some fun with the sword, tell the githyanki that you stole it from a cabal of illithids and degenerate githzerhia, give them the sword back, and give "directions" to where this "cabal" is.


(Cabal meaning an actual mind flayer city. That'll get some real hoots and may just buy you your life back from them.)



As for not even being safe at epic levels...that statement is correct. x.x An army of 15th level gith on red dragons is still dangerous...not to mention the lich-queen of the gith grows more powerful with each 16th level soul she devours and eventually she'll come after you for killing so many of her peons.


My advice? Toss a bag of holding into a portable hole and, from a SAFE DISTANCE, throw the sword into it.

RandomNPC
2007-01-29, 09:59 PM
just go to an inn the sword is not going to be at, and sleep this one off. don't be surprised when you meet a new adventuring group that needs someone with your skills.

Gralamin
2007-01-29, 10:05 PM
Humbly giving it back will just me your death.
I suggest making a deal with a greater evil. Who Do I know that the Githyanki hate who are evil...Oh wait Illithids! Give it over to mindflayers*.

*warning this action may be the catalyst that will allow mind flayers to remake their great empire. For a more sane idea, give it to the Githzerai.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-01-29, 10:32 PM
Or if you really want to have some fun with the sword, tell the githyanki that you stole it from a cabal of illithids and degenerate githzerhia, give them the sword back, and give "directions" to where this "cabal" is.

My advice? Toss a bag of holding into a portable hole and, from a SAFE DISTANCE, throw the sword into it.
First: Half-illithid Githzerai would be even more "Mortal Enemy" like.
Second: A better idea would be to put the sword in the Bag of Holding before you put it in the Portable Hole.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-01-29, 10:40 PM
First: Half-illithid Githzerai would be even more "Mortal Enemy" like.

Exactly. :smallbiggrin:



Second: A better idea would be to put the sword in the Bag of Holding before you put it in the Portable Hole.

Pfft, if you want to lose the sword and make them really pissed off. At least my way they'll get it back and assume that no one touched it.

Forks
2007-01-30, 01:00 AM
Yea, NWN2 no doubt no doubt. If its at all similar to the game, should be a fun time.

fireinthedust
2007-01-30, 01:52 AM
Given that the Githyanki can and will track you across the plains for this sword I would recommend getting rid of it. I would recommend selling it/trading it back to them and then using that money to get something more usefull to the party. Of course, you should be carefull on how you go about this. I would recommend:

1. Do not take the sword to your first encounter with them. Make an imprint in wax to prove that you have it.

2. Choose a safe meeting point and make sure that those at the meeting do not know exactly where the sword is being kept. Stress this point with the Githyanki.

3. Determine the fair market value for the sword and ask for that. Trade it for gp or an item of equal value.

4. As your bargaining chip, threaten to break the sword or give it to some creature(s) that would make retrieving it a nightmare for the Githyanki. Say, going to Celestia(?) and giving it as a present to Bahamut.

5. Include as part of the deal that the Githyanki will not attempt to seek retribution once the sword has been delivered.

6. Arrange the final exchange through a powerfull third party that can be trusted to act as an escrow agent (Possibly for a fee). If that is not possible, then choose a location where a Githyanki betrayal would be difficult or near impossible. E.g. someplace in Celestia that is crawling with celestials.

This should allow you to profit from the sword, and avoid the harassment from the Githyanki.

Ok, back up: start from 1. You're forgetting that the Gith hate non-gith and will kill you on sight.
On top of this "deal-making" with them will annoy them into torturing you for years rather than days.
On top of this, they will not rest until they get your for touching their sword. They will have murdered the Gith who lost his weapon (finding it and killing you is the only way he'd be let back into society), and for touching it you're probably in big trouble already.

If you're going to stay on Celestia, the game is over.

The only great suggestion is claiming the sword was found with the dead body of a Mind flayer and it's guards; you slew them found the sword, and can point them in the direction of an illithid city. (if you say "we got it in the city", the Gith will think you're lying (ie: why are you still alive?) and kill you)

SAPH: Initiate the contact, tell them you found the sword in an extra-dimensional vault (do you know whose? hire divinations to find out, that could be important to the plot-hook) and that you're leaving it on the edge of town; leave it on a rock and run away OR attempt a diplomacy check to show respect as you give it.

And, before you meet them, have your wizard research Githyanki in-game for your DMs take on them.

Saph
2007-01-30, 06:17 AM
I can help! You cant make friends with githaynki. They consider all non-githyanki life worthless.


On top of this "deal-making" with them will annoy them into torturing you for years rather than days.

After reading a few of these replies and some Internet articles, that's the impression I got. I'm glad I found this out before trying to talk to them.


SAPH: Initiate the contact, tell them you found the sword in an extra-dimensional vault (do you know whose? hire divinations to find out, that could be important to the plot-hook) and that you're leaving it on the edge of town; leave it on a rock and run away OR attempt a diplomacy check to show respect as you give it.

And, before you meet them, have your wizard research Githyanki in-game for your DMs take on them.

Sounds like the plan least likely to get me killed at the moment (well, that and the one that involved staying at a different inn and ignoring the explosions in the middle of the night).

Unfortunately, right now we're somewhere in the wilderness of north-west Faerun, about to enter a tomb to Gruumsh - the tomb had some kind of extradimensional seal on it, and after we killed the guardian, the portal opened and we found the sword amidst the remains of other adventurers just outside the gate. It'll take at least ten days to get back to the nearest city, plus however long we spend in the tomb. Hopefully the gith won't show up before then.

Maybe I can convince the rogue to just bury the thing outside before we go in. That way, if a party of angry gith show up to track us down, at least they'll have to fight their way in to the tomb to reach us.

- Saph

Munchy
2007-01-30, 06:48 AM
Ok, back up: start from 1. You're forgetting that the Gith hate non-gith and will kill you on sight.

Really? Even demons and devils aren't that extreme. That is a recipe for a race to get itself exterminated. It is one thing to hate everyone or have contempt towards them, another to attack any non-Githyanki on sight. I haven't seen anything, anywhere, that justifies the claim that the Githyanki will attack you on sight just for being different. The only race that actually applies to are Illithids. Even their interactions with Githzerai can be "peacefull" in some conditions.



On top of this "deal-making" with them will annoy them into torturing you for years rather than days. On top of this, they will not rest until they get your for touching their sword. They will have murdered the Gith who lost his weapon (finding it and killing you is the only way he'd be let back into society), and for touching it you're probably in big trouble already.

If they do that they will *never* get the sword. If you are clear enough on that and plan well they must choose between getting the sword or going after you. Assuming that the entry in the MM is correct and they care more about getting the sword back then they will follow through with the deal.

Refusing to negotiate an exchange creates a situation where any non-Githyanki would have an incentive to destroy any silver swords they come across, greatly reducing the recovery rate for the Githyanki. A rather lousy strategy if they care so much about getting their swords back. Besides, I seem to recall reading somewhere that in some cases they are willing to negotiate the sword's return. (Manual of the Planes, I think)


If you're going to stay on Celestia, the game is over.

For the reasons mentioned above negotiation with them is possible.



The only great suggestion is claiming the sword was found with the dead body of a Mind flayer and it's guards; you slew them found the sword, and can point them in the direction of an illithid city. (if you say "we got it in the city", the Gith will think you're lying (ie: why are you still alive?) and kill you)

The story you propose reeks of cheese and convenience, would require you to know where an Illithid city is located, and would run you into a world of woe if they decide to investigate into your story. More likely that the Githyanki will kill you for lying to them.


And, before you meet them, have your wizard research Githyanki in-game for your DMs take on them.

About the only thing we agree on.

CockroachTeaParty
2007-01-30, 07:35 AM
Hmm... celestia might be a nice place for a peaceful exchange, but why not have it on Mechanus?

Talk to a few Inevitables about the deal, and if the Gith break the rules, then suddenly a bunch of crazy robots are after them. Plus, you won't have to listen to celestials lecturing you about your smoking habit.

Of course, if you cheated on the math test in 2nd grade, you might have to face the dread might of SAT beauracracy drones flaying you alive.

A tough spot, you're in.

Callos_DeTerran
2007-01-30, 05:59 PM
Really? Even demons and devils aren't that extreme. That is a recipe for a race to get itself exterminated.

It may be off topic but yeah. Yeaht they are. And if their not trying to kill you, then you need to be a lot more worried in the first place. Just because a race/creature type has an extremist point of view (And follows through on it) doesn't mean that theres another race who can exterminate them. I'm pretty sure (Actually I know) there are whole planes and species who hate demons and devils, yet their still alive and kicking. Not to mention having enough people left to wage a war with each other!

Talanic
2007-01-31, 12:54 AM
Basically, yeah, Gith of either type are xenophobic to scary extremes. They were so tormented by Illithids and twisted by their hatred that they have become the very thing they hate.

Treat with them as you would a colony of mind flayers, whose sacred object you have obtained. Understand that your life, to them, is less than the dirt they tread on.

Munchy
2007-01-31, 10:25 AM
*sighs*

Extreme xenophobia, and even the desire to see all other races dead, does not imply that their sole reaction when encountering someone of a different race is to attack. In many cases they may do so, with no provocation from the people being attacked, but that does not mean that they ALWAYS attack. If there is something to be gained by not attacking there is a chance that they will not attack.

How do you reconcile your position that negotiation with the Githyanki is impossible with the following paragraph from Manual of the Planes (p175)?

"If a silver sword falls into the hands of a non-githyanki, githyanki kill the posessor if they can, steal the weapon if they have to, negotiate if they must, or ally with the thief's most potent foe as a last resort."

Wow. Did I just see them mention that negotiations and alliances are possible? How is this possible if the Githyanki ALWAYS kill on sight? Wouldn't they kill the negotiator on sight? Wouldn't they kill your foe on sight?

Yes, the Githyanki consider you to be less than dirt. Therefore the trick to negotiating with them is making sure it is by far the best option for them. By ensuring that the negotiator's death will result in the loss of the sword and that stealing the sword is either not possible or incredibly difficult you leave negotiation is the best option for them.

SpiderBrigade
2007-01-31, 12:16 PM
Once they have the sword, though, there's nothing stopping them from putting you on their permanent grudge list, for having the nerve to bargain.

True, they no longer have the means to infallibly track you, but it gives your DM a nice recurring enemy to use. Which is good, I guess.

Munchy
2007-01-31, 01:08 PM
Once they have the sword, though, there's nothing stopping them from putting you on their permanent grudge list, for having the nerve to bargain.

That is part of the reason that leaving you alone after the exchange is part of the deal.

Runolfr
2007-01-31, 01:32 PM
That is part of the reason that leaving you alone after the exchange is part of the deal.

Then, of course, you have the problem of determining what they think their word is worth to non-Gith scum. Regardless of the terms of the deal, you really can't trust them once the sword is back in their hands.

Twould be best to take whatever measures you can to make yourselves unidentifiable during the exchange. If they don't know who you are, they'll have a hard time tracking you down and killing you out of spite later.

SpiderBrigade
2007-01-31, 01:34 PM
That is part of the reason that leaving you alone after the exchange is part of the deal.

Oh, right, because you have a way of making sure they keep that part of the bargain?

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-31, 02:33 PM
Expect to fight some Blooodstorm Blades. Has your DM bought ToB recently?

NWN2 has Gith in it? Im sold.

Munchy
2007-01-31, 02:56 PM
Oh, right, because you have a way of making sure they keep that part of the bargain?


Then, of course, you have the problem of determining what they think their word is worth to non-Gith scum. Regardless of the terms of the deal, you really can't trust them once the sword is back in their hands.

Actually, this would be one of the things you would ask the DM in the appropriate knowledge check. If the Githyanki have a history of respecting such deals then you are good. If they do not, then it is in your insterest to dispose of the sword.

As for the Githyanki, if they made a habit of going after the people that give them the swords in an exchange, they would effectively suceed in creating a situation in which the best strategy for someone that comes into posession of a Githyanki sword is to silently destroy it (Disintegrate it or throw it into a sphere of anihilation). Assuming that they actually care about getting the swords back, reneging on deals is a horrible strategy to follow.

I do agree with Runolf that concealing your identity during the negotiation and exchange is a good way to raise the difficulty level for the Githyanki thus making negotiation and adhering to the agreement the most attractive deal for them.

Falkus
2007-01-31, 07:45 PM
Actually, this would be one of the things you would ask the DM in the appropriate knowledge check. If the Githyanki have a history of respecting such deals then you are good. If they do not, then it is in your insterest to dispose of the sword.

This is not exactly a situation which happens with great frequency.


As for the Githyanki, if they made a habit of going after the people that give them the swords in an exchange, they would effectively suceed in creating a situation in which the best strategy for someone that comes into posession of a Githyanki sword is to silently destroy it

That's assuming other people find out they killed you after the deal.

Munchy
2007-01-31, 09:18 PM
This is not exactly a situation which happens with great frequency.

That's assuming other people find out they killed you after the deal.

They obviously loose the swords and attempt to recover them often enough that their approach is quasi-common knowledge. It is reasonable to assume that a fair number of sword-owners have attempted an exchange and therefore there should be precedents.

As for them killing you after, it is hard to keep such things a perfect secret, and exposure is always a risk, no matter how carefull they are. If it happens enough, observers will notice a pattern whereby those that negotiate a sword return are killed "mysteriously" some time thereafter. Once again, they can get away with it in the short term, but it is a horrible long term strategy.

Arguably you would have to ask someone that notices trends over long time periods. The PCs could use "Commune" or "Contact other Plane" to ask a powerfull outsider (Ideally a deity) as to what the Githyanki behavior has been. Ascertaining their past behavior wrt. such deals should not be that difficult. Given that the Githyanki should be capable of figuring this out themselves, I would expect them to follow the strategy that maximizes sword returns in the long run. I.e. they will honor the deals that they make, at least as far as silver-sword deals go.

Saph
2007-02-01, 06:17 AM
*sigh*

Fine. If I don't manage to convince the rogue to throw the sword away or sell/give it to someone we don't like, and if the Githyanki show up, and if we actually get a chance to talk to them rather than them just trying to kill us on sight (which I'm not at all sure will happen) and they decide to listen to us, then I'll give you guys a report on how they act in regard to deals and you can update your planar encyclopaedias.

However, right now I'm much more interested in what the Gith WILL do than what the Gith SHOULD be doing. "But this strategy doesn't maximise your sword returns in the long run aaargh" are not the last words I want my character to have.

- Saph

Munchy
2007-02-01, 10:22 AM
*sigh*

Fine. If I don't manage to convince the rogue to throw the sword away or sell/give it to someone we don't like, and if the Githyanki show up, and if we actually get a chance to talk to them rather than them just trying to kill us on sight (which I'm not at all sure will happen) and they decide to listen to us, then I'll give you guys a report on how they act in regard to deals and you can update your planar encyclopaedias.

However, right now I'm much more interested in what the Gith WILL do than what the Gith SHOULD be doing. "But this strategy doesn't maximise your sword returns in the long run aaargh" are not the last words I want my character to have.

- Saph

Well, they way the Githyanki will behave in your campaign is however your DM decides that they should behave. That in turn depends on how much thought your DM puts into this (Given that officially published materials are vague).

Given your low level it might be wiser to just forfeit the sword and avoid lying to the Githyanki at all costs. Assuming that you make a good effort to return the sword to them ASAP and you don't go showing it off, you should be good. Keep in mind that the Githyanki might also be offended if you drop their swords in the middle of nowhere or if you sell them.

Thus the suggested steps for someone too weak to actually trade with the Githyanki are:

1. Knowledge planes/religion check from the PCs to determine what the proper course of action according to the Githyanki would be. They must know that their swords will often be found and there is probably a course of action that they consider acceptable. (Bring it to the Githyanki ASAP and turn it over/Leave it where it is and then inform the Githyanki/Other?)

2. Based on how detailed an answer you get in 1 you may end up having to see someone with more ranks in the appropriate knowledge check, or you may end up having to transport the sword to a city. In both cases you probably want to keep the sword hidden from sight and with spells to protect it and yourself from divinations. That is, unless part of the answer from 1 involves not hiding the sword from the Githyanki while in transit to turn it over.

3. Follow the recomended course of action to the letter and without delay.

If you do this you should be golden. It would be really, really foolish for the Githyanki not to have some prefered course of action for people to return swords to them that puts these people in the clear. Otherwise they create a situation where the best course of action for all others is the destruction of Githyanki swords on sight. You may want to bring that up to the DM's attention during the knowledge planes check - just to make sure the DM takes that into account.

Yakk
2007-02-01, 11:17 AM
Possibly the best course of action is to run away, never touch it, and hide -- hoping never to be found.

Ie:
Keep the sword means that hunting teams will be sent out regularly with more and more force.

Destroy the sword means that avenging teams will be sent out regularly with even more force.

Touch the sword, realize what it is, drop it and run away as fast as you can means that only the occasional purifying team will be sent out to kill you.

See the sword, leave it where it is and refuse to touch it means that you will be killed if the retreaval team happens to spot you.

You can create incentives not to destroy your swords by simply killing you more if you destroy it than if you keep it. Like, if you destroy the sword, hunt down the relatives as well as the destroyers...

Munchy
2007-02-01, 12:21 PM
Possibly the best course of action is to run away, never touch it, and hide -- hoping never to be found.

But they already touched it. Furthermore in many cases the PCs will touch it (Just retrieving the loot) before they know what it is. Once you've touched it, anyone sufficiently powerfull that runs divinations on the item should be able to identify you. Safer to blast the thing into nothingness, disperse the ashes, and never mention the sword again.



Ie:
Keep the sword means that hunting teams will be sent out regularly with more and more force.

Agreed.



Destroy the sword means that avenging teams will be sent out regularly with even more force.

How would they know it was you who destroyed the sword if there are no remains on which to perform a divination? If you were carefull, did it quickly, and kept it a secret, they would have to ask a deity to find out. Even then, it is somewhat iffy as to how a deity would know.



Touch the sword, realize what it is, drop it and run away as fast as you can means that only the occasional purifying team will be sent out to kill you.

If you touch it, better to destroy it. At least there is a good chance they will never connect you to the sword in any way.



See the sword, leave it where it is and refuse to touch it means that you will be killed if the retreaval team happens to spot you.

Maybe. This depends on what the Githyanki think is the proper course of action. They might take offense at a someone not reporting the sword to them and still punish you for it. It would depend on whether there is anything connecting you to the place where it was found (Witnesses/Evidence).



You can create incentives not to destroy your swords by simply killing you more if you destroy it than if you keep it. Like, if you destroy the sword, hunt down the relatives as well as the destroyers...

This doesn't work against many of the more powerfull planar creatures that are likely to run into the swords in the first place. In their case destroying the sword to avoid the Githyanki nuisance altogether makes sense. Even for creatures with families, it still might be better to take your chances and avoid entanglements altogether. Besides, you can always move to Celestia or go live with the Githzerai.

Were-Sandwich
2007-02-01, 12:31 PM
Hmmm. If you have the neccassary spell casting power (or can hire it): Arcane Mark on Sword, Contigency, "If I die, or am captured, or when I say 'anti-disestablishmentarianism', cast disintegrate/shatter/plane shift to negative energy plae etc on object with my/his/her Arcane Mark on"

Gives them an incentive not to kill you during negotiations.