Can the wish spell do these?

[RoboEmperor]

Can the wish spell do the following:

1. Grant more spells known to a sorcerer.
2. Change your race (End game, I was wondering if I could turn myself into a pixie for the +4 charisma bonus and immortality. It would also be nice to be able to turn myself into an Iron Golem that can cast sorcerer spells. Level cap is 30 so why not reach level 30 first, then change race to something that has crazy ECL, and reach level 30 with that?)
3. Permanently increase your ability score, give feats, create items that have unlimited charges like some sort of ring that lets you cast timestop once per day, or more? For the increase in ability score or additional feats, I am content with once again, a magic ring that procure these bonuses for me.

I know wish isn't free, and the power of the wish affects the cost of the wish, so assuming I am some super rich guy with an insane amount of exp, and have some sort of lawyer that will draft me a 100-page super concise wish, are these wishes possible?

[Drachasor]

1. Only by making Spellpages of knowledge or similar magic items.
2. Officially...no. But you could have it make an item of True Mind Switch that can be used once, and then use that to get into the body you want.
3. Is there some reason you can't make these items yourself?

Wish can permanently increase scores only by providing inherent bonuses up to +5, but you need to cast it 5 times one after another to get that +5 bonus.

If you want it to make a magical item, you should look at the existing magical items. Timestop is pretty much out, I believe.

[RoboEmperor]

Thanks for the quick response. So if I were to use the true mind switch on an Iron Golem, can I still cast sorcerer spells? If not, what if I was a wizard?

[Drachasor]

Thanks for the quick response. So if I were to use the true mind switch on an Iron Golem, can I still cast sorcerer spells? If not, what if I was a wizard?

You retain all class abilities.

Does your DM know you want to do this stuff? This is the sort of thing he'd have to approve of.

Note that you can use Magic Jar to temporarily take over a body you want, though some do not let it work with Golems (yes, there is SR, but a creature can voluntarily lower its SR so you could order your golem to lower his).

[hamishspence]

Savage Species has the "Change Your Race" ritual be based on wish.

[RoboEmperor]

My DM is an open guy, if I can give some evidence that it is possible then he will approve. I'm not trying to be power gaming, I just like Golems (especially metal ones), I love spells, and I want immortality, without being an Elan. I know more spells on sorcerer is kind of power gaming but... there are a lot of subpar spells I want to use like shapechange and gate.

Anyways thanks for the response!

[Bakeru]

there are a lot of subpar spells I want to use like shapechange and gate.0.0

You realise that those are some of the prime examples of abusable spells? As in, when people talk about "broken, overpowered spells", those two invariably get mentioned?

[RoboEmperor]

0.0

You realise that those are some of the prime examples of abusable spells? As in, when people talk about "broken, overpowered spells", those two invariably get mentioned?

Sorry, I only played nwn, and I wanted more which is why I'm moving into pen and paper, and in nwn those two spells were considered jokes.

[sideswipe]

actually most of the responses you have been given are wrong.

wish has the line of text -
You may try to use a wish to produce
greater effects than these, but doing so is
dangerous.

you can wish for absolutely anything. if your wish is greater in any way then the effects outlined in the spell then you can succumb to the effects of it essentially backfiring. you get your wish in a way but it is always presented in the worst possible form (at the dm's discretion, he may decide that your wish is actually reasonable and give it to you).

so for example you wish to become another race. you could emulate the spell reincarnate and randomly get a race, you could arrange one with your DM or he just picks one.

or, you could wish to become a specific race. word it carefully.
for example "i wish to become a wood elf" your DM could turn you into one, who has average ability scores and is venerable. and your stats change as appropriate.

[Bakeru]

The "trouble" with said spells is their huge range of selections.
Gate can call pretty much any non-unique outsider (you can also call unique beings and deities, but they're free to say no), and allows you to control it as long as its HD aren't more then twice your caster level. A sorcerer learns to cast it at level 18. Flip through the books and look what kind of fun can be done with full control over Outsiders with 36 HD. Letting them cast "Wish" (which some of them have as SLA, thus incurring no costs for them) costs you only 1000XP for Gate, instead of 5000XP for casting Wish yourself.
And that's just the most straightforward abuse.

Shapechange? Well, it "only" allows you to turn into any being with HD up to your caster level. You gain all (Ex) and (Su) abilities. If you still have hands and vocal cords (or can otherwise manipulate objects and speak), then you can still cast, on top of whatever other abilities you just gained. Again, flip through the books and imagine "what could my character do if he could do all this creature can, on top of what he can do usually"?

[RoboEmperor]

actually most of the responses you have been given are wrong.

wish has the line of text -
You may try to use a wish to produce
greater effects than these, but doing so is
dangerous.

you can wish for absolutely anything. if your wish is greater in any way then the effects outlined in the spell then you can succumb to the effects of it essentially backfiring. you get your wish in a way but it is always presented in the worst possible form (at the dm's discretion, he may decide that your wish is actually reasonable and give it to you).

so for example you wish to become another race. you could emulate the spell reincarnate and randomly get a race, you could arrange one with your DM or he just picks one.

or, you could wish to become a specific race. word it carefully.
for example "i wish to become a wood elf" your DM could turn you into one, who has average ability scores and is venerable. and your stats change as appropriate.

So what's the cost of wishing for a new race? According to what you said, I can wish myself to be a young elf with amazing stats, and when I reach venerable age, I can wish myself to become a young elf again with no backfires if my wish is 100 pages long to be really specific.

Btw, I plan on wishing myself into some kind of golem, most likely iron or adamantine. This is possible right?

[Venusaur]

Btw, I plan on wishing myself into some kind of golem, most likely iron or adamantine. This is possible right?

The book basically says it's the DM's choice, and it may backfire/be twisted. I would talk to him/her. If you do, I recommend carefully wording the wish so you don't lose spellcasting abilities/stats (also they can't speak, so be careful).

[Yuki Akuma]

1. Wish for Knowstones. They're magic items that grant a new spell known to a Sorcerer or Bard as long as they have them in their possession. Well within Wish's power.

2. Emulate Polymorph Any Object. Also well within Wish's power. You may need to cast it more than once to get the effect to be permanent.

3. This is explicitly a thing Wish can do. Each casting within a short time period gives a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score, up to a maximum of +5. You need to be able to cast Wish five times in succession to get the +5.

[RoboEmperor]

Whats the cost of wishing an item of true mind switch? 5000?
Also, is there a level or class restriction/requirement to use the item? Can you wish it so you get an item that a level 1 character can use it?

[Yuki Akuma]

The cost to wish for an item is twice the XP cost to normally craft the item, plus 5000 xp.

True Mind Switch is a level 9 spell, so to create a one-use item of it that anyone can use would cost you... 5,612 xp.

[Bakeru]

Since it's relevant to what he's looking for:
Beings who have Wish as a Spell-Like Ability don't have to pay XP to use it.

[RoboEmperor]

Since it's relevant to what he's looking for:
Beings who have Wish as a Spell-Like Ability don't have to pay XP to use it.

I see, no wonder why shapechange zodar is overpowered.

If I want more feats, what item should I wish for? If I am going to true mind switch into a golem, I'm gonna need automatic silent spells.

And thank you everyone for your posts! Can't believe how friendly and helpful everyone is on this forum.

[Bakeru]

I see, no wonder why shapechange zodar is overpowered.Or Gate, for that matter.


If I want more feats, what item should I wish for? If I am going to true mind switch into a golem, I'm gonna need automatic silent spells.There is a Ring of Silent Spells in the Magic Item Compendium, but it only works on low-level spells, and not all day.
Or you might use Metamagic Wands - they have limited charges, though, and would need to be in your hands... unless you can convince your DM to use Wand Chambers. They're only for weapon, but you'd be a construct, your hands would be weapons, and I think Warforged even have something like that.

There is no "Insert Any Feat"-Item, though.

Also, you might have to use Awaken Construct (another 9th level spell) on the Golem first, so it even has a mind to be switched (DM decision, I guess).

...Actually, now that I read "Awaken Construct" (It's in the Spell Compendium)...
Awaken Construct has the Material Component of "The brain of an humanoid that has been dead for less then 8 hours".
Of course, technically, the construct is supposed to be an entirely new being, but it's not a far stretch to re-fluff it as "Being transferred into a new body"... at least, as long as you're doing it at first level, since you'd start out without any class levels.


And thank you everyone for your posts! Can't believe how friendly and helpful everyone is on this forum.You better leave soon if you want to keep that impression =P

[Slipperychicken]

You better leave soon if you want to keep that impression =P

You can generally do well so long as you avoid contentious topics like Paladins and alignment.

[Threadnaught]

3: Oh yes, you can Wish for a Magic Item, any Magic Item at all, no price limit whatsoever. You also get to add powers to a Magic Item, any powers, no cost limit. At all.
Try Wishing for an Item of Gate 1/day and use it to Gate in some Efreet or Solars. Then you'll begin to notice how hard NWN nerfed it. If you're a Kobold, or otherwise count as a Scaled One, Gate in a Sarruhk and... Actually don't do that, your DM may have heard of this thing and will throw several books at you if they have.

This use of Wish is covered in the rules as a safe Wish, safe Wishes cost 5000xp when cast as a Spell and have no possible negative affects under reasonable DMs.
The other two don't appear to be listed, which makes them unsafe Wishes, these are Wishes that reasonable DMs are encouraged to seek out a loophole to abuse. Unreasonable DMs would've already found reasons to screw you with safe Wishes, so since you're not allowed to use Wish for the lower effects, it's intuitive that the more powerful effects would just never happen.


You can generally do well so long as you avoid contentious topics like Paladins and alignment.

I think Monks are awesome. :smalltongue:

And I often find myself pondering why anyone would play a Fighter when they could play [Insert Class] instead as (imo) they are far more interesting.

[Lord Haart]

2. Change your race (End game, I was wondering if I could turn myself into a pixie for the +4 charisma bonus and immortality. It would also be nice to be able to turn myself into an Iron Golem that can cast sorcerer spells. Level cap is 30 so why not reach level 30 first, then change race to something that has crazy ECL, and reach level 30 with that?)It involves dying, possibly repeatedly to fish for a desired result, but there's a spell called Last Breath in the Spell Compendium which duplicates effects of Reincarnate without level loss (limitation being, it has to be cast in a round following target's death and no later; it also has a costly material component). If the race you desire qualifies as "other", i believe you can greatly reduce the amount of roll-fishing needed (and, subsequently, the total cost) by using a Maximise metamagic rod (i've read somewhere that, in funny rules near-disfunction, Maximise does apply to Reincarnation percentile rolls; there might be people who know better, though).


There is no "Insert Any Feat"-Item, though.
There's "Insert any fighter bonus feat, one at a time, pick anew with each casting" spell, though, which can be made into custom magic items.

[Bakeru]

I think Monks are awesome. :smalltongue:

And I often find myself pondering why anyone would play a Fighter when they could play [Insert Class] instead as (imo) they are far more interesting.Not to forget that [Beguiler/Factotum] steal* the Rogue's role in the party.

*Oh, the irony.

[Maginomicon]

If you want immortality, there's the Wedded to History feat... or you could play a Warforged or Quesar.

[fishyfishyfishy]

If you want immortality, there's the Wedded to History feat... or you could play a Warforged or Quesar.

This. Just cast Polymorph Any Object to turn yourself into a Warforged, and follow it up with another casting so that it's permanent. Now you're a construct that can theoretically live forever. True Mind Switching into a Golem and other abusive shenanigans are just asking for the DM to screw with you.

[ericgrau]

You can generally do well so long as you avoid contentious topics like Paladins and alignment.
My DM banned monks for being overpowered. Says in a fight between in a monk 20 and a sorcerer 20 it depends who goes first (b/c besides the monk at all levels, high level sorcerers are strongest). No one in my group ever plays lawful good because it makes you a ****. Chaotic neutral is outright banned. Fighter was ok for a while but I got it banned because of all the things you can do with a lot of feats. And we always take jabs at the psionic players because psionics are overpowered. One person in our group likes to play druids because she thinks druids and animals are cool but generally we avoid them because they're weak. Hers aren't very effective even though she's quite experienced. All true :smallbiggrin:. I am not trying to debate these things. Walk away. Here have a block of ice. Dear lord it melted mid air! Calm down. It's ok. None of it matters, it's just a game.

Ahem, what a wish can specifically do is up to your DM. Some may even allow high power effects from multiple wishes. I think a level 6 or below spell known is reasonable, and higher level with multiple wishes. The wish xp cost to craft a runestaff (Magic Item Compendum) of the same level can provide a ballpark on what's fair. I think any LA 0 race is fair but for higher LA it could take a lot of wishes. By the time you get wish LA buyoff (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) is fair, so figure out how much xp it would cost to buyoff the race. I might have the additional restriction that it can only affect the caster to prevent resource pooling, or else charge more xp. For special effects I agree with others: just wish for a magic item that does it.

[RoboEmperor]

This. Just cast Polymorph Any Object to turn yourself into a Warforged, and follow it up with another casting so that it's permanent. Now you're a construct that can theoretically live forever. True Mind Switching into a Golem and other abusive shenanigans are just asking for the DM to screw with you.

I researched this for a while and I think its a general consensus that polymorph any object is not really "permanent". It has endless duration but BECAUSE IT CAN BE DISPELLED your real body is still aging somewhere. I read some other forum post about becoming immortal (easiest way is picking elan), but the main reason why I want to be a construct is because I love constructs. I wanna become a construct without relying on the savage species stuff because they have a lot of stuff that is open to interpretations, like a LOT. I also want a mortal to use science (in this case... magical science?) to overcome his mortality and become something amazing. This way it doesn't matter what race I start with, I'll always end up the way I want to be. Also, I want to be pure sorcerer, you know, cause I'm not a power gamer :P

[ericgrau]

Hmmm talk to the DM. Maybe he can slap on a gold, xp, and/or years cost and you can roleplay it out. Or X number of wishes. That seems like the simplest way. I mean maybe there are tricks to do it, but tricks are rarely fair.

[Bakeru]

Do you have access to "Complete Arcane"? If yes, look up the Green Star Adept.
It's really not optimised (to the degree of "Optimisers wake up in the night, screaming and drenched in sweat, after having nightmares about being forced to take this class"... You loose 5 spellcasting levels, so at level 20, you only cast as good as a level 15 sorcerer), but otherwise, it seems to be exactly what you're looking for: An arcane caster using obscure magic and rare materials to turn himself into a construct.

[EugeneVoid]

I'd avoid Green Star Adept like the plague, because the capstone makes it nearly impossible for you to heal. You also lose a humongous quantity of hitpoints.

[Bakeru]

I'd avoid Green Star Adept like the plague, because the capstone makes it nearly impossible for you to heal. You also lose a humongous quantity of hitpoints.He's looking for ways to turn a sorcerer in a kind of construct. Except for Warforged, all of them are horrible to heal. And I forgot what the name of the "turning into a Warforged"-PrC was. Was it caster-focused?

The lack of Con-Bonus to HP could be an issue, though, but then... Construct. Warforged are the only Constructs with Con-scores, as far as I remember.

At last, he's obviously not playing in High-Op circles.

[Kelb_Panthera]

Can the wish spell do the following:

Preface: you can technically wish for anything you want but if it's not on the explicit safe-list described in the spell it has a chance of backfiring or outright failing. I'll list the safe ways to do each.


1. Grant more spells known to a sorcerer.

You can wish for items that give access to such, like knowstones and runestaves. Costs a little extra XP.


2. Change your race (End game, I was wondering if I could turn myself into a pixie for the +4 charisma bonus and immortality. It would also be nice to be able to turn myself into an Iron Golem that can cast sorcerer spells. Level cap is 30 so why not reach level 30 first, then change race to something that has crazy ECL, and reach level 30 with that?)

Via the wish in the back of Savage Species; yes. You may not get all of the qualities of the race you're becoming when you make the necessary spellcraft checks.


3. Permanently increase your ability score, give feats, create items that have unlimited charges like some sort of ring that lets you cast timestop once per day, or more? For the increase in ability score or additional feats, I am content with once again, a magic ring that procure these bonuses for me.

In order; yes, no, kinda.

Granting an inherent bonus to an ability is on the safe-list.

You can't get a feat directly but you -could- wish for an item that grants it.

You can wish for magic items, no problem, but it costs a little extra XP to do so; twice the XP it would cost to make that item through the craft feats, plus the normal 5000 for the spell. As for what items are available; the DM decides whether any given item is available in his campaign at all but -most- will be okay with anything that's published and -some- will allow you to create custom items using the guidlines in chapter 7 of the DMG.


I know wish isn't free, and the power of the wish affects the cost of the wish, so assuming I am some super rich guy with an insane amount of exp, and have some sort of lawyer that will draft me a 100-page super concise wish, are these wishes possible?

The power of the wish only affects its cost when it's the creation of a magic item. In all other cases it's 5000xp or 25000gp plus the cost of the generating item.

If you're brave, you can conjure up a creature that has wish as a SLA or SU and bargain with it for the use of the ability but the costs there can range from virtually nothing to your immortal soul, depending on your ability to make a deal, and the DM doesn't have to honor the safe-list since the creature using the ability can misunderstand or deliberately twist your wish.

Technically you can even get wishes for free if you know one of several work-arounds but those tend to get DMG's chucked at your head in all but the highest-op games.

[RoboEmperor]

What are the limits of the magic item creation? I want to make an magic item that gives the user +25 use magic device and the ability to cast True Mind Switch once, forever. And just out of curiosity, what is stopping a creature with wish as a SLU from creating an item that gives 9999 bonuses of everything across the board on a single item?

Also, does failure to use a magic item use up a charge?

Also, if someone teaches or guides the user during the attempted usage, is a UMD check made? I'm talking about an item with a point and say activation word design.

[Phelix-Mu]

Have we clarified whether you can true mind switch into a golem, which is immune to mind-affecting stuff? If you have to awaken the golem, that's another expensive step (potentially needing another wish), and probably an undesirable one, as the awakened golem now lives in your old body and probably hates you (not that the golem will be able to do much about it).

[Gemini476]

Have we clarified whether you can true mind switch into a golem, which is immune to mind-affecting stuff? If you have to awaken the golem, that's another expensive step (potentially needing another wish), and probably an undesirable one, as the awakened golem now lives in your old body and probably hates you (not that the golem will be able to do much about it).

Technically, you can lower immunities. An Elf can lower their immunity to Sleep, at least.
You might think that there's little reason to do so, but I can think of at least one situation where that would be useful (Appalling Fecundity).

(An example from 4E would be that Dwarves can make themselves prone despite their immunity to that status, and do not need to hopelessly fling themselves at their beds over and over.)

[RoboEmperor]

This is not for the golem thing, this is for a character design thing I mentioned in my other post "what can demons/devils do for you"

Here's a quote about glabrezus:
"Once per month, a glabrezu can fulfill a wish for a mortal humanoid. The demon can use this ability to offer a mortal whatever he or she desires—but unless the wish is used to create pain and suffering in the world, the glabrezu demands either terrible evil acts or great sacrifice as compensation."

So the setting is a human who is some sort of victim (bandit related or political related), then the glabrezu telepathically talks to and tricks the human. I haven't worded the wish yet, but the end result is:
1. Glabrezu wishes an item of true mind switch and places it in the entrance of some cave
2. Glabrezus travel with 1 succubus and 2-5vrocks. Since demons are chaotic evil, they don't give a crap about their subordinates, so this Glabrezu permanently Power Word, Stun the succubus to use her as a sacrifice.
3. The human, following the Glabrezu's instruction telepathically, picks up the item of true mind switch and casts it on the stunned succubus, not knowing whats going on but just blindly following instructions.
4. Once the mind swap is complete, Glabrezu slaughters the human's body, the human is stunned inside the succubus body, and confused.
5. something happens, I dunno yet, but human learns is tricked and something happens between the Glabrezu and the human.
6. Succubus adventurer! Succubi can be sorcerers without any special lineage because demon blood is sorcerer blood. They also have a measily HD of 6, measily physical ability scores of 13 str/dex/con, and because the human became a succubus through true mind switch, she loses the succubi's SLA, supernatural abilities, skills, etc, and due to the death of her original body, she is now level -1 with no ECL. She will be almost equivalent to a human PC with the starting stats 13/13/13/9/8/18

So this start gives me a unique PC character that is in no way more powerful than any other of the starting races, in fact it may be even less powerful than some, and it gives my PC sorcerer blood (I am really fixated on obtaining sorcerer blood instead of it coming to my PC through some random miraculous chance).

Only problem with this start is that... the demon is a succubus. I am currently looking into other demons, preferably male, that aren't ugly as !%#@, not ridiculously strong, not related to some sex thing, and has a good reason why the Glabrezu can easily acquire said demon. Vrocks are male but they are ugly as !%#@ and have crazy physical stats (23/15/25). I might resort to a non demon with sorcerer blood that can be found locally.

I was looking at Efreeti bottles and Devil pacts before I came across Glabrezu today, and I think Glabrezu is the best one to use for my character's backstory.

Anyways, the most important part of this story is "can wish create an item of true mind switch that a level 0 classless human can use?"

[Clistenes]

Succubus adventurer! Succubi can be sorcerers without any special lineage because demon blood is sorcerer blood. They also have a measily HD of 6, measily physical ability scores of 13 str/dex/con, and because the human became a succubus through true mind switch, she loses the succubi's SLA, supernatural abilities, skills, etc, and due to the death of her original body, she is now level -1 with no ECL. She will be almost equivalent to a human PC with the starting stats 13/13/13/9/8/18

When you use Magic Jar or Mind Switch, you also lose racial HD, so the character wouldn't have the succubus's 6 Outsider HD.

On the other hand, she would keep the flight movement, claw attack, natural armor, Damage Reduction and Outsider type (which in turn grants you the ability to live without food, drink or sleep and all Simple and Martial proficiencies). That's a lot of good stuff, and your DM will probably make it a LA +2 template.

From the fluff point of view...why does the Glabrezu even do that? What does it gain? He's sacrificing a valuable Succubus underling for what? To empower a mortal? The soul of a mortal isn't as valuable as a fully formed Succubus, who has already gone through the Larva, Manes and Dretch stages. And anyway, the Glabrezu could just grab the human girl, take her to the Abyss and do as he wished with her; a tanar'ri only makes bargains if it's unable to directly put its claws on the mortal.

[RoboEmperor]

From the glabrezu quote, and informations I found online, it seems glabrezu tempts mortals like succubi do, and grant them wishes if and only if:
1. Causes great pain and suffering in the world.
2. Demands either terrible evil acts or great sacrifice as compensation.

So in this, the glabrezu took the literal meaning of the human's wish (which I am still wording) and perverted it so the mortal ends up a succubus. As a result, either the human is in a position where he/she can only survive by killing a great deal OR, the human agreed to do terrible evil acts or great sacrifices OR the glabrezu has some kind of plan up his sleeve. I don't think they only make deals with mortals that they can't get their claws into immediately because I read they tempt mortals with wealth and power, and their goal is not the mortal's immediate destruction, but to spread chaos.

Soul of a mortal, especially one that is a level 0 classes human, is worth less than a succubus BUT, as we all know, succubi are weak easy monsters defeated at very low levels, and an epic level sorceress is nigh unstoppable, so maybe the glabrezu saw potential in this mortal and believes she can become an epic sorceress, and is growing her, farming her, may even help her out and get her to be an epic sorceress. As to why, I am still working that out, what kind of deal would make the girl bound to the glabrezu even after she becomes stronger than him, and make her adventuring based on escaping said glabrezu? Or maybe she isn't bound but is somehow forced to sow chaos, still working that out.

Also, can you tell me where you found the information on the larvae->mane->dretch->succubus thing?

And simple and martial proficiencies? I thought feats were a mind thing, not a physical thing so the succubus in the human body would be proficient with simple and martial, not the human.

I think I can debate the LA with my DM, cause technically true mind switch does not affect ECL.

Maybe I should start a new topic, this might be going off topic and may not be allowed.

Anyways, can wish create an item of true mind switch that a level 0 classless human can use?

edit: Another possible reason could be that the glabrezu's main intention was to acquire a loyal human. He put the succubus in the human body so that he could use the it to sow tremendous chaos or act as the best spy possible because change shaped succubi are revealed by true sight, but not by mind swapped humans.

[Clistenes]

Also, can you tell me where you found the information on the larvae->mane->dretch->succubus thing?

Almost any source about the Abyss (Planes of Chaos, Blood War, Hordes of the Abyss...etc.) will explain how promotion works. Damned souls start as larvae, and those who survive are promoted, usually to mane and later to dretch, but there are exceptions.


And simple and martial proficiencies? I thought feats were a mind thing, not a physical thing so the succubus in the human body would be proficient with simple and martial, not the human.

If you become an Outsider, you gain those proficiencies. Even if you temporally become an Outsider thanks to a Polymorph spell, you still gain the proficiencies. Don't ask me why, those are the rules.


I think I can debate the LA with my DM, cause technically true mind switch does not affect ECL.

But you are not using Mind Switch to change bodies during a game, you are using a demon NPC to give extra power to your character at level 1.


Anyways, can wish create an item of true mind switch that a level 0 classless human can use?

Yes, it can. So long as the item is worth less than 200,000 gp, the Glabrezu can create it.

About the sorceress...why not just say that the Glabrezu's Wish turned her into a half-demon, lemorian, alu-fiend or tierfling? Or that he gave her a Fiendish Graft similar to the ones in the Fiend Folio? Or that he kept her body alive under control of the succubus's mind, who is using it for her own nefarious purposes?
I just can't see a reason for the Glabrezu to waste a perfectly good succubus just to make a mortal look demonic.

[RoboEmperor]

About the sorcerer...why not just say that the Glabrezu's Wish turned her into a half-demon, lemorian, alu-fiend or tierfling? Or that he gave her a Fiendish Graft similar to the ones in the Fiend Folio? Or that he kept her body alive under control of the succubus's mind, who is using it for her own nefarious purposes?
I just can't see a reason for the Glabrezu to waste a perfectly good succubus just to make a mortal look demonic.

Heh, we were thinking the same thing while we were editing our posts. I edited in the body controlled by succubus mind thing in my last post before you finished your edit.

Anyways, I was under the impression that the wish spell cannot change race, so alu-fiend, tiefling, half-demon, are all race changes is it not? If wish could change the race like that like human->tiefling, it would make what i'm doing a LOT easier.



Yes, it can. So long as the item is worth less than 200,000 gp, the Glabrezu can create it.

Alright, so a wand (can it be a wand? If not maybe a knife? Something that can be aimed) or something's cost of a command word true mind switch would be...
9 x 20? (not sure on caster level of glabrezu's wish) x 1,800 = 324000... yikes, I better thing this through some more >.<

Can true mind switch be Use-Activated? Like its on a stick, and if you whack the target with said stick the true mind switch happens. Does this need UMD check?

Otherwise its gotta be a wand/knife with +25 skill bonus for UMD (25^2 x 100 = 62500) and true mind switch activated by spell completion (9 x 20 x 25 = 4500) (62500 + 4500 = 67000, and the item will succeed a UMD check of act blindly 100% of the time). Then again the user needs to will it to happen... AH I got it! Have the succubus use it on the power word, stunned human!

I will most likely go for the succubus mind in human body as the main reason for this transaction.

[Clistenes]

Heh, we were thinking the same thing while we were editing our posts. I edited in the body controlled by succubus mind thing in my last post before you finished your edit.

Anyways, I was under the impression that the wish spell cannot change race, so alu-fiend, tiefling, half-demon, are all race changes is it not? If wish could change the race like that like human->tiefling, it would make what i'm doing a LOT easier.

Wish can give you back your old body if Reincarnation puts you into the wrong one. And Savage Species explains how you can change races using a Wish spell.

There are rules about how to do it, buying the LA with xp or even rolling which powers and abilities of the new shape you get and which not, but nothing of that really matter: If you pick a race or template with its own LA, then it's supposed to be balanced for the game and all you need is to request your DM's permission. He or she may allow the other players to take extra class levels in order to start at the same ECL as you, or may not even bother to do that; LA eventually balances itself on its own.


Alright, so a wand (can it be a wand? If not maybe a knife? Something that can be aimed) or something's cost of a command word true mind switch would be...
9 x 20? (not sure on caster level of glabrezu's wish) x 1,800 = 324000... yikes, I better thing this through some more >.<

That's the price for an unlimited item. If it works only once a day, then you divide the price by 5. If it only works once, divide it's price by 100.

[RoboEmperor]

That's the price for an unlimited item. If it works only once a day, then you divide the price by 5. If it only works once, divide it's price by 100.

Thank you so much! You have been immensely helpful :)

I am not too worried about LA, if its LA+2, sure why not, at least its not like +4 like a pixie.

[Kelb_Panthera]

What are the limits of the magic item creation? I want to make an magic item that gives the user +25 use magic device and the ability to cast True Mind Switch once, forever. And just out of curiosity, what is stopping a creature with wish as a SLU from creating an item that gives 9999 bonuses of everything across the board on a single item?

There are none, except how much XP you have to pour into the casting. If a creature with wish as a SLA or SU creates a magic item it can be of whatever arbitrary value you please. This is the major reason I advise -against- trying to get magic items that way and why I didn't outline any of the ways of getting around the costs in my previous post; they involve becoming one of these creatures.

A +25 to UMD is worth 62,500gp. Wishing one up will cost an extra 5000xp for a total 10,000xp.

A single instance of true mind-switch would cost 57650gp and wouldn't require a UMD check. The UMD version would cost 53825. Wishing for those effects would be an additional 20612 and 20306xp, respectively.

Adding these to the previous device would entail an additional surcharge for putting different abilities on the same object; an increase of the UMD bonus component's cost by 50%. I don't recommend this.


Also, does failure to use a magic item use up a charge?

Not usually, but failing a check to activate a scroll sometimes entails that scroll being expended on a backlash.


Also, if someone teaches or guides the user during the attempted usage, is a UMD check made? I'm talking about an item with a point and say activation word design.

If a UMD check would be necessary without that aid, then it still is. If the instructor is trained in the UMD skill he can give the person trying to activate it a +2 circumstance bonus on his check by making a DC 10 check. This is the aid-another action. If the instructor is not trained in UMD then he cannot offer aid to his ally on the activation of the device.

[Clistenes]

Since it is a Glabrezu NPC creating the item with its Wish spell-like ability, it won't require any xp to be spent.

And it can create a Command Word Wondrous Item or Rod that doesn't require to make any UMD check.