One more V sex theory...

[torugo]

Was reading the last comic 944 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0944.html) and noticed the way V sits.

First I noticed the body language. Notice how Roy spreads his legs like a man and V has both legs close together. Woman usually sits that way. Could be that V is just too shy to sit like a man but then i noticed another thing.

Look at the buttocks of V in the chair. I think its the first time I could see her buttocks and it is round. Notice how Roy's buttocks are squared. Were V a squared butt guy the robe would go around it forming a square when he sit. But instead...round like it is represented to all girls in the strip.

So one more thing for you guys to think about...

[Goosefarble]

There are a number of conflicting messages about V's gender in regards to the art style, and they're probably deliberately placed to make it more ambiguous. Nothing is finite evidence that V is one sex or the other.

[Dumbestupidiot]

The way V sits isn't good evidence, S/he is feeling very vulnerable, when people feel vulnerable the tend to fold in on themselves a bit. S/he isn't feeling confident at all so slipping into a slight fetal type sitting is reasonable

Also, the robe might mess up the buttock angle/non angle region

[torugo]

What was the last evidence that V was male?
Last gender evidence I remember for V was the husband and while it is not a 100% evidence that she is female (V can be gay) it sends assumptions towards female V as well..

[Loreweaver15]

What was the last evidence that V was male?
Last gender evidence I remember for V was the husband and while it is not a 100% evidence that she is female (V can be gay) it sends assumptions towards female V as well..

We don't know V's spouse's gender, either.

I wouldn't trust any evidence in-comic one way or the other. Rich deliberately includes indicators for both genders to confuse us; V will not have a defined gender in-comic for us to figure out, because Rich thinks it's funnier that way.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Keep in mind, the Giant has said that Vaarsuvius's gender will remain a mystery. Also, while the art style might be able to give us clues, actual characters in the story have expressed confusion as to what Vaarsuvius's gender is, and they can probably see them better than we can!

[torugo]

Try put a robe around a square and put it in the ground. 2 options come. Either there is more cloth in that area than should be, and the extra cloth would make a bump behind before going ahead. Or there is less cloth in that region, in such case a square is formed following the square format.

None of the options above is shown on the last strip. But it would fit perfect for a round buttocks.

[Dumbestupidiot]

I wouldn't trust any evidence in-comic one way or the other. Rich deliberately includes indicators for both genders to confuse us; V will not have a defined gender in-comic for us to figure out, because Rich thinks it's funnier that way.

I concur, and it is funnier that way, although i kinda wish belkar asked the oracle if he'd ever figure out what V's gender is... Oh well, death and mayhem works for me too.

[torugo]

We don't know V's spouse's gender, either.

I wouldn't trust any evidence in-comic one way or the other. Rich deliberately includes indicators for both genders to confuse us; V will not have a defined gender in-comic for us to figure out, because Rich thinks it's funnier that way.

What do you mean? V's spouse has a square buttocks. Isnt that evidence?
Now i am starting to think Roy may be a girl....and haley a guy...

[Loreweaver15]

What do you mean? V's spouse has a square buttocks. Isnt that evidence?

No, for the same reason the shape of V's butt isn't evidence; Rich made both of them androgynous with mixed gender characteristics and adopted children so that we couldn't figure out V's gender.

Rich himself has said that Inkyrius has no on-screen gender.

[Mauve Shirt]

Have you tried manipulating robes and cloth while drawing in OOTS-style? It all tends to round out if you want it to still look like the character is wearing a robe.

Personally I think "V-Man (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0009.html)" is indeed male* but it also doesn't matter at all.


*Yes I know countless non-Roy characters have espoused different views of Vaarsuvius, this is just the one that's stuck in my brain.

Also, seated Shojo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0406.html), most assuredly male, has a rounded bottom.

[Aasimar]

I think it's the difference between someone in armor and someone in a robe.

[roko10]

Also, seated Shojo (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0406.html), most assuredly male, has a rounded bottom.

Shojo was fat, and he has an rounded bottom. So, V is fat.

[Ridureyu]

Shojo never struck me as fat.

[OPM]

Actually, Belkar should be able to figure it out now. In spite of not knowing back with lizard-V, he had a helpful lesson from the lizardfolk in the arena concerning hemipenes so he should know for sure now.

[Comrade]

It seems sad to me that even the way you sit now has a gender assigned to it.

[SiuiS]

These threads have the best titles, and such let-down content...



((:smalltongue:))

[Porthos]

Miron looks to have a rounded butt in the bottom of the splash page of today's update.

Are you saying Miron is in fact female as well? :smalltongue:

[Jay R]

You need to understand the difference between a secret that the author knows and is keeping from you, and a potential decision that the author has not made.

For the first few comics, Vaarsuvius had a gender in Rich's mind. But after people got confused about it, he decided that there isn't one. So there isn't.

Rich is not writing a story about a male elf who hasn't revealed that he is male. Rich is not writing a story about a female elf who hasn't revealed that she is female.

Rich is writing a story about an elf, whose gender Rich has decided not to decide.

It is *not true* that Vaarsuvius has a gender, and we just haven't seen what it is. Rich has deliberately not given Vaarsuvius a gender.

You can try to solve the mystery of the Monster in the Darkness, because Rich has an answer that has not yet been revealed. If you guess the species that Rich has in mind, then you are correct, and if you guess any other species, then you are incorrect.

But you cannot solve the mystery of Vaarsuvius's gender, because Rich does not have an answer. It doesn't exist.

[thereaper]

You need to understand the difference between a secret that the author knows and is keeping from you, and a potential decision that the author has not made.

For the first few comics, Vaarsuvius had a gender in Rich's mind. But after people got confused about it, he decided that there isn't one. So there isn't.

Rich is not writing a story about a male elf who hasn't revealed that he is male. Rich is not writing a story about a female elf who hasn't revealed that she is female.

Rich is writing a story about an elf, whose gender Rich has decided not to decide.

It is *not true* that Vaarsuvius has a gender, and we just haven't seen what it is. Rich has deliberately not given Vaarsuvius a gender.

You can try to solve the mystery of the Monster in the Darkness, because Rich has an answer that has not yet been revealed. If you guess the species that Rich has in mind, then you are correct, and if you guess any other species, then you are incorrect.

But you cannot solve the mystery of Vaarsuvius's gender, because Rich does not have an answer. It doesn't exist.

I was going to say the same thing, but it looks like you beat me to it.

[Loreweaver15]

Actually, Belkar should be able to figure it out now. In spite of not knowing back with lizard-V, he had a helpful lesson from the lizardfolk in the arena concerning hemipenes so he should know for sure now.

Aren't those internal, though? :P

[Cizak]

What do you mean? V's spouse has a square buttocks. Isnt that evidence?

Nope.67890

[skim172]

Boooo-ring.

I have a more interesting V sex theory - "V" had sex with another V, thereby forming a "W."

But then V took a paternity test and discovered that U was the real father. Which is why we pronounce it "Double-U." :smallamused:


As for Vaarsuvius, the answer is obvious. Elves are so drastically different from humans in their abilities and biology - they don't sleep, they see in the dark, they live several times longer - so they most likely have a very different genetic ancestry. Yet, they resemble human beings so closely - it'd be like discovering a species of plankton that just happened to evolve to look exactly like a German Shepherd. This seems so improbable - unless it wasn't by accident.

Indeed, elves are not "human" or anything close. They are actually organically-constructed robots. Deep within the elven homelands is a secret city, which is actually a massive magical, self-powered forge, where each living elf is put together, cell by cell, tissue by tissue, by robotic arms. When they are completed, they walk out through shining doors, to be received by the elven elders and welcomed to life.

The forge is kept a secret, even from the elves themselves - the elves, being long-lived, remember nothing about their first 20 years of life. Only the elders know and they fear the consequences if the truth was known - that the elves are truly the results of some bizarre organic engineering process from some advanced civilization of bygone ages that has long since collapsed. Even more repulsive is the thought that, since they so resemble humans, the elves' designers were likely humans too. Sickening, that these primitive apes might have, in long lost eons, constructed the elves, like toy dolls.

So, the elves prefer to keep alive their myths of their gods and their esteemed ancient ancestors - rather than face the truth.

Vaarsuvius is neither male nor female, as sex has no meaning among the elves. They are not the tools of their own species' reproduction - instead, machines in some forbidden metropolis stamp them out from pre-set templates, while the elves continue to live out their farce.

[Loreweaver15]

Boooo-ring.

I have a more interesting V sex theory - "V" had sex with another V, thereby forming a "W."

But then V took a paternity test and discovered that U was the real father. Which is why we pronounce it "Double-U." :smallamused:


As for Vaarsuvius, the answer is obvious. Elves are so drastically different from humans in their abilities and biology - they don't sleep, they see in the dark, they live several times longer - so they most likely have a very different genetic ancestry. Yet, they resemble human beings so closely - it'd be like discovering a species of plankton that just happened to evolve to look exactly like a German Shepherd. This seems so improbable - unless it wasn't by accident.

Indeed, elves are not "human" or anything close. They are actually organically-constructed robots. Deep within the elven homelands is a secret city, which is actually a massive magical, self-powered forge, where each living elf is put together, cell by cell, tissue by tissue, by robotic arms. When they are completed, they walk out through shining doors, to be received by the elven elders and welcomed to life.

The forge is kept a secret, even from the elves themselves - the elves, being long-lived, remember nothing about their first 20 years of life. Only the elders know and they fear the consequences if the truth was known - that the elves are truly the results of some bizarre organic engineering process from some advanced civilization of bygone ages that has long since collapsed. Even more repulsive is the thought that, since they so resemble humans, the elves' designers were likely humans too. Sickening, that these primitive apes might have, in long lost eons, constructed the elves, like toy dolls.

So, the elves prefer to keep alive their myths of their gods and their esteemed ancient ancestors - rather than face the truth.

Vaarsuvius is neither male nor female, as sex has no meaning among the elves. They are not the tools of their own species' reproduction - instead, machines in some forbidden metropolis stamp them out from pre-set templates, while the elves continue to live out their farce.

Oh my god I know you're teasing the thread creator but can I use that

[skim172]

Oh my god I know you're teasing the thread creator but can I use that

I'm not entirely teasing ... because I actually do think about stuff like this ... Maybe I have too much free time ... :smallfrown:

Yeah, you can use it. Although I'm pretty sure I cobbled that together from bits and pieces of various different fantasy and sci-fi short stories. So if someone sues you for plagiarism, this post never happened. :smalleek:

[thereaper]

If I ever create a fantasy story with elves, I will probably steal that.

[SavageWombat]

You think he's kidding, but...

Ever notice how, when you take away hair and clothing choices, all the elves look exactly the same?

Edit: and skin color I suppose.

[Porthos]

Boooo-ring.

I have a more interesting V sex theory - "V" had sex with another V, thereby forming a "W."

But then V took a paternity test and discovered that U was the real father. Which is why we pronounce it "Double-U." :smallamused:


As for Vaarsuvius, the answer is obvious. Elves are so drastically different from humans in their abilities and biology - they don't sleep, they see in the dark, they live several times longer - so they most likely have a very different genetic ancestry. Yet, they resemble human beings so closely - it'd be like discovering a species of plankton that just happened to evolve to look exactly like a German Shepherd. This seems so improbable - unless it wasn't by accident.

Indeed, elves are not "human" or anything close. They are actually organically-constructed robots. Deep within the elven homelands is a secret city, which is actually a massive magical, self-powered forge, where each living elf is put together, cell by cell, tissue by tissue, by robotic arms. When they are completed, they walk out through shining doors, to be received by the elven elders and welcomed to life.

The forge is kept a secret, even from the elves themselves - the elves, being long-lived, remember nothing about their first 20 years of life. Only the elders know and they fear the consequences if the truth was known - that the elves are truly the results of some bizarre organic engineering process from some advanced civilization of bygone ages that has long since collapsed. Even more repulsive is the thought that, since they so resemble humans, the elves' designers were likely humans too. Sickening, that these primitive apes might have, in long lost eons, constructed the elves, like toy dolls.

So, the elves prefer to keep alive their myths of their gods and their esteemed ancient ancestors - rather than face the truth.

Vaarsuvius is neither male nor female, as sex has no meaning among the elves. They are not the tools of their own species' reproduction - instead, machines in some forbidden metropolis stamp them out from pre-set templates, while the elves continue to live out their farce.

How does Lirian fit into this backstory of the elves?

[thereaper]

Obviously, she's an elder who helps keep the secret. Duh.

[MrMercury]

Keep in mind, the Giant has said that Vaarsuvius's gender will remain a mystery. Also, while the art style might be able to give us clues, actual characters in the story have expressed confusion as to what Vaarsuvius's gender is, and they can probably see them better than we can!

damnit, I was hoping it would eventually be revealed
EDIT: Because V just struck me as female
and also, yes, a sitting pose has genders attatched to it, because, I don't know, maybe most people of that gender sit that way?

[WindStruck]

He is a woman pretending to be a male but was secretly born a girl, and he was raised as one. Any other questions? :smallsmile:

[Dr. Gamera]

It seems sad to me that even the way you sit now has a gender assigned to it.

Presumably people's attempts to analyze the gender of Vaarsuvius are sometimes informed by the well-known gender analysis scene in (spoiler alert for a novel that's over a century old) Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
which includes a specific analysis of gender differences in moving one's lap to catch something while sitting.

[killallgoblins]

lol every time one of these threads pops up the same tardgirl on tumblr makes a post about wanting to kill everyone

[oppyu]

While I would love to imagine that the party isn't totally smurfetted, 'Vaarsuvius is sitting in a fashion that seems tense and nervous in a situation where ve could reasonably be expected to be tense and nervous' is hardly compelling evidence. Plus the Giant is actively keeping V agendered now, so most speculation is moot.

[Skorj]

I'm not entirely teasing ... because I actually do think about stuff like this ... Maybe I have too much free time ... :smallfrown:

Yeah, you can use it. Although I'm pretty sure I cobbled that together from bits and pieces of various different fantasy and sci-fi short stories. So if someone sues you for plagiarism, this post never happened. :smalleek:

Wise advice, given you've pretty much described how the Warforged are built. :smallbiggrin: Heck, in DDO if you make a "bladeforged" hero that's pretty much how you enter the game. (Also worth noting: the Eberron setting was the one chosen over the Giant's setting for publication IIRC, so we can be pretty sure that's not the answer for V. :smalltongue:)

[Vinyadan]

Look at the buttocks of V in the chair.

Hmmmm, oh yea, those fine, round elven buttocks. :smallcool:

[YossarianLives]

I've always thought that elves in OOTS just don't have a gender.

[ti'esar]

I don't know whether to be disappointed or relieved by this thread.

[The Oni]

I feel fairly confident that Inkyrius is a male, at least biologically; his clothes weren't particularly loose, and he was drawn squarish, like most male characters in the comic, so V is either a gay male or a straight female (but remember, the kids are explicitly adopted). Given that V's a high-level elven wizard, though, it probably doesn't matter much one way or the other (Alter Self is a throwaway spell at V's level).

[skim172]

Wise advice, given you've pretty much described how the Warforged are built. :smallbiggrin: Heck, in DDO if you make a "bladeforged" hero that's pretty much how you enter the game. (Also worth noting: the Eberron setting was the one chosen over the Giant's setting for publication IIRC, so we can be pretty sure that's not the answer for V. :smalltongue:)

Actually, I think I got the "forge" part from a sci-fi novella by either Arthur Clarke or Ray Bradbury, set in a distant future where humans no longer procreate, but are birthed by a giant computerized city.

But the part about the ancient, powerful elven race, in a twisted irony, discovering they're actually the constructs of the progenitors of the primitive degenerate humans - well, that's a totally unique idea that I almost certainly plagiarized from somewhere else.

[Lamech]

V is clearly female. She has a husband. I know because its my headcannon and my headcannon is never wrong.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

There is no evidence Inkyrius is male.

[oppyu]

No evidence V is heterosexual either.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

That too. Heck, there's no evidence Inkyrius is heterosexual either.

[Ceiling_Squid]

*sigh* This happens every time. Someone latches onto a single minor detail and feels they need to make a whole new thread with authoritative statements about V's gender. Give it up, people. Be okay with uncertainty.

But, if I must address the OP: It's important to consider that cultural norms often determine body language to a strong degree. Given that elves are an unknown fantasy culture (and we have no idea if there are additional regional customs that V follows), V's body language in a vulnerable, personal moment of contrition is completely up for debate. We can't apply our real-life Western ideas of "male" and "female" body language to a fantasy elf.

That, and V is clearly male. We've known it since the beginning when Roy called him "V-man". No additional evidence be damned, the first word is the only word on the subject. Roy is the voice of reason in the party, after all!

[Duck999]

The robe ruins the reasoning in the first post. It keeps your legs close together so people can't see in it, and also might restrict your legs from spreading. Also, the robe bends, not necessarily the clothes under it.

[Knight.Anon]

I think than in the OOTS-verse. Elfen gender is mutable or voluntary and more often than not dormant. V isn't in the game right now so to speak. V being oblivious to the very concept should tell the curious all they need to know.

Elves live practically forever and if they breed like humans the whole world would be up to their necks in them.

[David Argall]

You need to understand the difference between a secret that the author knows and is keeping from you, and a potential decision that the author has not made.

For the first few comics, Vaarsuvius had a gender in Rich's mind. But after people got confused about it, he decided that there isn't one. So there isn't.

Rich is not writing a story about a male elf who hasn't revealed that he is male. Rich is not writing a story about a female elf who hasn't revealed that she is female.

Rich is writing a story about an elf, whose gender Rich has decided not to decide.

It is *not true* that Vaarsuvius has a gender, and we just haven't seen what it is. Rich has deliberately not given Vaarsuvius a gender.

You can try to solve the mystery of the Monster in the Darkness, because Rich has an answer that has not yet been revealed. If you guess the species that Rich has in mind, then you are correct, and if you guess any other species, then you are incorrect.

But you cannot solve the mystery of Vaarsuvius's gender, because Rich does not have an answer. It doesn't exist.
To quibble...
It is not certain that V lacks an assigned gender or sex. It is merely certain that we are uncertain about it, that any given "hint" may lead us in the right or wrong direction, and may be a mere accident or mistake with no predictive value. Our author may reveal or assign a gender at any time, particularly at the end, but it is to be noted that the writer of "The Lady or the tiger?" never revealed which despite a lifetime of people pressing for the answer. And in that case, there were only two possible answers, one of which was definitely chosen [by the story, not necessarily by the author]. V gives us several more maybe's. So trying to guess V's sex is purely a game and we will get no answer to the puzzle for a long time.

Oh yes, the leg spread here is related to pants vs dress. While that has often translated to male vs female, the male wearing something dress-like, such as a toga, is also interested in keeping privates private. So a mage in a robe will adopt a "female" posture and this case brings us no closer to a "solution".

[thatSeniorGuy]

Actually, I think I got the "forge" part from a sci-fi novella by either Arthur Clarke or Ray Bradbury, set in a distant future where humans no longer procreate, but are birthed by a giant computerized city.

Off-topic:
That would the The City and the Stars by Clark. Good read.