Going to be playing in a oWoD game for the first time ever. Anything I should know?

[Corndog]

My only experience with the setting is through the Bloodlines PC game (which is one of my favorites).

What should a first time player know? What am I walking into?
Also, is Ventrue fine for a new player? I'm probably going to go Ventrue or Nosferatu (leaning towards the former)

[The Glyphstone]

Which edition of the rules?

Tabletop or live-action?

Camarilla, Anarch, or Sabbat?

All three are vital questions to answer before anyone can give you useful advice, whether for play/setting-wise or mechanics-wise.

[Corndog]

Which edition of the rules?

Tabletop or live-action?

Camarilla, Anarch, or Sabbat?

All three are vital questions to answer before anyone can give you useful advice, whether for play/setting-wise or mechanics-wise.

not sure what you mean by edition
I just asked and they said it's the revised one, if that's what you're asking

It's Camarilla and tabletop

[sktarq]

a few things to know.

If you want to win combat you want celerity-in terms of overpowering your opponents this discipline is significantly better.

Tremere are splat-tastic. The more splatbooks of Tremere or bloodmagic are available the more ridiculous this clan becomes.

SOMEONE in the party needs Dominate 3 (the forgetful mind). It fixes the masquerade issues players produce like clockwork

[Driderman]

Everytning Sktarg wrote is great, if you approach the game from a typical D&D mindset. If your Storyteller does that, you're probably better off playing something else since you don' really play Storyteller games for that type of gaming.
Still, some people do, of course, which is why it's hard to say what you're in for. In my RP community, WoD is a dramatic game that focuses on interactions between the PCs, and the PCs and the world. Especially in Vampire, where a city setting will be fleshed out and every single NPC will probably be more detailed in terms of goals, enemies, allies and such than most PCs.

WoD is not about winning, it's about the story, which (again, for my community) means that you need to accept that Losing is Fun in that Dwarf Fortress kind of way; When all your political gambles have failed, your allies have betrayed or abandoned you and your only option is to throw yourself at the mercy of your worst rival, or possible abandon all of your moral pretenses to live another night, well that story can be just as great as a story about McPC winning everything.

Also, Vampire is not a game about killing stuff, mortals or otherwise. Killing mortals tend to create people asking questions, or messes that hint at supernatural activity. Vampires, for all their bluster, are more parasite than predator and a good parasite tries not to alert it's host to it's presence.

Vampires also generally don't kill each other, for several reasons: First off, in a Camarilla setting it's generally illegal. Secondly, immortality is the only thing you've got left in some views and thirdly, even as much as you despise another Kindred, they're still the only ones who really get what you live every night as a Vampire, so there's some form of "fellowship", for lack of a better word. Lastly, and most important perhaps, killing is a great way to feed the Inner Beast, the beastial, vampiric inner you that just wants to kill and drink blood and will take over if you indulge it too much, a fate that nobody wants.
Also, if everyone kills indiscriminately all the time it kinda robs you of the option for dramatic stories about using that ultimate measure in desperate situations.

[Boci]

@Driderman - What exactly did sktarq say that was incompatible with what you said?
Its true that celerity is the best physical discipline, and whilst the typical WoD isn't going to be a D&D hack and slash, combat is a fairly important part of the game, plenty of disciplines/discipline powers for example are primarily for combat.
Its true that tremere get a lot of options in splat books, which can make them fun to play. After all, you're playing vampire in no small part because of the disciplines.
Its true that dominate 3 is very useful (although I found dominate 2 to come up more often). Players are not a member of a secret society, and are therefor not going to be as Masquerade conscious as a vampire would, so having an edit undo button is useful, especially for new players.

I don't see how playing the game you described rules out any of the advice sktarq gave.

Some advice of my own:
Clarify with your ST what and what won't require a frenzy check. As written pretty much any session is going to become a frenzy fest. Ditto on humanity sins, as there is a difference between the table and the text.

Have subterfuge. One of the groups commonly possessing are vampires. Its a useful skill.

Pool your backgrounds, or at the very least co-ordinate them. Vampires require infrastructure to compensate for their weaknesses, and backgrounds is how you do it. This should be fine assuming you start the game knowing each other, if not talk to the ST about it because it is technically metagaming.

Look at the sins against humanity and decide where you would like your character to be morality-wise. This will be a useful yard stick for roleplaying.

[Driderman]

@Driderman - What exactly did sktarq say that was incompatible with what you said?

Mechanically, nothing, it just seemed to come from a very "D&D-ish" approach to Storyteller which I feel meshes poorly with WoD and is a bad way to approach it. But of course, for this group it might be the right way, I don' really know :smallamused:



Pool your backgrounds, or at the very least co-ordinate them. Vampires require infrastructure to compensate for their weaknesses, and backgrounds is how you do it. This should be fine assuming you start the game knowing each other, if not talk to the ST about it because it is technically metagaming.

This seems like a very D&D-party approach to Vampire. While sharing resources can certainly be relevant, I'd advise against getting too cozy with even your coterie fellows, since they can just as easily be your rivals as well.
Again, this depends on approach to WoD, but I have never, ever played a Vampire game where the players were one well-oiled unit of PCs working flawlessly together, because that's not really what WoD is about (IMO).



Look at the sins against humanity and decide where you would like your character to be morality-wise. This will be a useful yard stick for roleplaying.
Definitely good advice, although of course you may run into the typical problem of everyone wanting to play the edgy badass that is trying hard to leave humanity behind and has a conscience stat of 1, effectively making it meaningless since everyone else isequally murderhobo :smalltongue:

[TheCountAlucard]

Be careful playing a Malkavian or any other kind of character with Derangements. Truth be told, I'd advise reading into real-world mental disorders before doing so.

Because if the Internet catches you playing a Fishmalk, they will hunt you down.

[Driderman]

Be careful playing a Malkavian or any other kind of character with Derangements. Truth be told, I'd advise reading into real-world mental disorders before doing so.

Because if the Internet catches you playing a Fishmalk, they will hunt you down.

On the other hand, don't get caught up in the "only-leet-White-Wolf-fanboys should play this-or-that" mentality either because a breath of newbie-inspiration can be awesome :smallamused:

[Boci]

This seems like a very D&D-party approach to Vampire. While sharing resources can certainly be relevant, I'd advise against getting too cozy with even your coterie fellows, since they can just as easily be your rivals as well.
Again, this depends on approach to WoD, but I have never, ever played a Vampire game where the players were one well-oiled unit of PCs working flawlessly together, because that's not really what WoD is about (IMO).

Its not about "one well-oiled machine", but about giving players (at least one of which is new to the game) a solid starting step. Rather than have every player with 3 dots in resources, have one with 4 dots who is willing to share it with the others. Then have one with a good domain so you can all wake together rather than have an extended start of the night sequence for every players. Have a single high ranked mentor so the group has a get out of jail free card and the ST has a good way of introducing plot hooks. And because you are sharing infrastructure you now have a reason to be a coterie.

This is world of darkness, you do not need to look for reasons to screw over your fellow players, if anything its justifying not doing that which takes effort, and pooled backgrounds can help with this. It also allows backgrounds to be targeted without singling out an individual player, because they all use that particular resource.


On the other hand, don't get caught up in the "only-leet-White-Wolf-fanboys should play this-or-that" mentality either because a breath of newbie-inspiration can be awesome :smallamused:

Honestly, you seem to be coming off as having that mentality, "that playstyle doesn't mesh well" "its all about properly fleshed out NPCs" and "that's not what WoD is all about".

[Corndog]

Thanks for the replies

yeah, about the party cohesion-
we're going to be playing as a coterie of 3 where we have a Malkavian, a Gangrel and then whatever I decide (Ventrue/Nosferatu)

we could play as a band of misfits if I went Nosferatu, but as a Ventrue I could serve as a face of the coterie

[TheCountAlucard]

Ventrue would be a good mix with the other two. If the Malk is willing to teach you in-game, Auspex would be a VERY nice thing to pick up from him*, but remember that, largely, your greatest strengths are gonna be in the social arena. Being able to "read" people would really help with that.

*Note: Malkavians make good teachers; my last Malkavian PC used a paintball gun to teach Obfuscate. :smallcool: That said, don't take him up on any offers to learn Dementation.

[Driderman]

Its not about "one well-oiled machine", but about giving players (at least one of which is new to the game) a solid starting step. Rather than have every player with 3 dots in resources, have one with 4 dots who is willing to share it with the others. Then have one with a good domain so you can all wake together rather than have an extended start of the night sequence for every players. Have a single high ranked mentor so the group has a get out of jail free card and the ST has a good way of introducing plot hooks. And because you are sharing infrastructure you now have a reason to be a coterie.

This is world of darkness, you do not need to look for reasons to screw over your fellow players, if anything its justifying not doing that which takes effort, and pooled backgrounds can help with this. It also allows backgrounds to be targeted without singling out an individual player, because they all use that particular resource.



Honestly, you seem to be coming off as having that mentality, "that playstyle doesn't mesh well" "its all about properly fleshed out NPCs" and "that's not what WoD is all about".

I may not have inserted enough "in my opinion"'s in my previous posts. Feel free to insert as many as you feel are needed :smallsmile:

Concerning pooled backgrounds, the 20th anniversary edition of Vampire actually has rules for such. I still think it strange, but it depends on the group in question of course.

[Corndog]

How's this look for a starting Ventrue?

Director demeanor
social: 3 charisma, 2 manipulation, 2 appearance
mental: 2 perception, 1 intelligence, 2 wits
physical: 2 strength, 2 dexterity, 2 stamina
talents: 3 alertness, 1 brawl, 2 dodge, 3 intimidation, 3 leadership, 3 subterfuge
knowledge: 2 academics, 1 computer, 2 finance, 1 investigation, 1 law, 2 politics
skills: 1 drive, 3 etiquette, 2 firearms
disciplines: 3 dominate
backgrounds: 1 allies, 1 influence, 2 mentor, 4 resources, 1 retainers, 1 status
virtues: 3 conscience, 4 self-control, 3 courage
humanity = 7
willpower = 6

freebie points: 5 in backgrounds, 1 in humanity, 3 in willpower, 1 in intimidation, 1 in dodge, 1 in firearms

I'm a little anxious to start because it's a totally new system to me, and also because I've never done tabletop rp before. I've only played online where you can just type out your actions and dialogue

[Driderman]

How's this look for a starting Ventrue?

Director demeanor
social: 3 charisma, 2 manipulation, 2 appearance
mental: 2 perception, 1 intelligence, 2 wits
physical: 1 strength, 1 dexterity, 1 stamina
talents: 3 alertness, 1 brawl, 2 dodge, 3 intimidation, 3 leadership, 3 subterfuge
knowledge: 2 academics, 1 computer, 2 finance, 1 investigation, 1 law, 2 politics
skills: 1 drive, 3 etiquette, 2 firearms
disciplines: 3 dominate
backgrounds: 1 allies, 1 influence, 2 mentor, 4 resources, 1 retainers, 1 status
virtues: 2 conscience, 3 self-control, 2 courage
humanity = 7
willpower = 6

freebie points: 5 in backgrounds, 1 in humanity, 3 in willpower, 1 in intimidation, 1 in dodge, 1 in firearms

I'm a little anxious to start because it's a totally new system to me, and also because I've never done tabletop rp before. I've only played online where you can just type out your actions and dialogue

Looks like you messed up the attributes, shouldn't you have 2/2/2 in your physicals rather than 1/1/1?
Same goes for your virtues, looks like you forgot the initial dot there as well.

Also, due to my elitist nature (:smalltongue:) if you turned this over to me as a character, I'd probably have to ask which part of this is actually a character, as supposed to just some numbers on a sheet. At the very least, I'd expect a handful of lines to detail who he was, who he is, how he got where he is today (the Kindred, especially Ventrue, rarely embrace casually), who his friends/enemies are and what his goals are.

[SaurOps]

How's this look for a starting Ventrue?

Director demeanor
social: 3 charisma, 2 manipulation, 2 appearance
mental: 2 perception, 1 intelligence, 2 wits
physical: 1 strength, 1 dexterity, 1 stamina
talents: 3 alertness, 1 brawl, 2 dodge, 3 intimidation, 3 leadership, 3 subterfuge
knowledge: 2 academics, 1 computer, 2 finance, 1 investigation, 1 law, 2 politics
skills: 1 drive, 3 etiquette, 2 firearms
disciplines: 3 dominate
backgrounds: 1 allies, 1 influence, 2 mentor, 4 resources, 1 retainers, 1 status
virtues: 2 conscience, 3 self-control, 2 courage
humanity = 7
willpower = 6

freebie points: 5 in backgrounds, 1 in humanity, 3 in willpower, 1 in intimidation, 1 in dodge, 1 in firearms

I'm a little anxious to start because it's a totally new system to me, and also because I've never done tabletop rp before. I've only played online where you can just type out your actions and dialogue

Your Attributes have the telltale signs of someone who wasn't reminded that every Attribute starts at one dot. They should all be one higher than you've placed them at.

[Corndog]

Oh... thanks for the corrections.

and yeah, I did the easy part (the stats)

right now I've got a mental image of the character himself, but I obviously need to flesh out the details

[Driderman]

Like I already said, it's hard to give any concrete advice on what to prepare for, since it's difficult to know how your particular group plays Vampire.
In the games I've played, PCs wouldn't necessarily spend a lot of time with each other, meaning they had a lot of "downtime" (in which they would sometimes play as NPCs) while the other PCs did their stuff.
This also means that game doesn't have the classical "party dynamic" where the PCs seem to hang out with each other all the time, and taken to extremes may even have a communal haven and resource pool.

How your group plays may differ wildly, though. I'm european and I remember back in the late 90's or early 00's, Mark Rein-Hagen visited a convention near me. It turned out we were playing Vampire rather differently than the Americans, as the American Vampire players tended to have a more D&D-esque approach to the whole thing with party-based play and a very "Party vs setting" mentality, whereas we focused a lot more on the stories of the individual characters and the setting, and even had fun with massive, inter-PC conflicts that sometimes became the focus of entire stories.
Both are quite viable of course, but you'll have to find out for yourself which approach your group has.

[Boci]

Your virtues should also be one point higher, for some reason that is already taken into account for calculating willpower, but not humanity. So it should be 8 humanity and 6 willpower.

Also you have spent one too many freeby points, as humanity costs 2 to raise (I had to double check this because I have never raised humanity with freebies). You can knock down a background/will power or grab a 1 point flaw to balance things out.

Also you aren't playing the 20th anniversary edition? Dodge became part of athletics and was replaced with the awareness skill.

[sktarq]

Everytning Sktarg wrote is great, if you approach the game from a typical D&D mindset. If your Storyteller does that, you're probably better off playing something else since you don' really play Storyteller games for that type of gaming.
Still, some people do, of course, which is why it's hard to say what you're in for. In my RP community, WoD is a dramatic game that focuses on interactions between the PCs, and the PCs and the world. Especially in Vampire, where a city setting will be fleshed out and every single NPC will probably be more detailed in terms of goals, enemies, allies and such than most PCs.

WoD is not about winning, it's about the story, which (again, for my community) means that you need to accept that Losing is Fun in that Dwarf Fortress kind of way; When all your political gambles have failed, your allies have betrayed or abandoned you and your only option is to throw yourself at the mercy of your worst rival, or possible abandon all of your moral pretenses to live another night, well that story can be just as great as a story about McPC winning everything.

I actually agree with all this but for different reasons. I'm not approaching this via a DnD mentality though. However I do assume a few things A new player is probably more likely to have come from a DnD like game and their first character will either start as built in this mode or be matched up the world well only via luck or close coordination with the ST. Most first time characters are built around famous archtypes until people get used to the game. Also new players will likely be focused on survival above all else in their first run as they figure out how lethal the world is and the like. The number of new characters that misjudge combat in WoD is high and really early deaths can turn people off games which would be shame-WoD is about arcs and not getting off the ground sucks for that. Also since almost every ST I know who is running oWoD today either does play it closer to DnD or has VERY tight character creation working in order to explore some of the philosophical issues in the game and the OP didn't seem to get the latter treatment I'm going to guess that it is likely to be that kind of game. I'm a nWoD guy myself if you haven't guessed because I find it more story based.

My personal love for Dominate 3 is simple. It is what I used to call the story driver. Why? Because a simple botch on a hunting roll can and does send several sessions of game flying into cover ups and the like. Now some STs can make that fun but others get lost....okay most seem to get lost. Dominate 3 is the fasted way of papering over a goof (which is common with new players especially who are not practiced in playing to the masquerade) and get back to whatever story the ST has tossed at you.


Also, due to my elitist nature (:smalltongue:) if you turned this over to me as a character, I'd probably have to ask which part of this is actually a character, as supposed to just some numbers on a sheet. At the very least, I'd expect a handful of lines to detail who he was, who he is, how he got where he is today (the Kindred, especially Ventrue, rarely embrace casually), who his friends/enemies are and what his goals are.

Also I'd second this. With a bigger emphasis on who he was in life. Vampires are basically frozen at the time of embrace. Many don't get over this and one of the things that makes the PC's the protagonists is that they often are more mutable. Those skills and knowledges took time and effort-why did you character put those in? What does you character feel about being a vampire? about the behavior of other vampires? region before and did your views change post death? why were embraced? what's your relationship with your sire? lots of questions

[Corndog]

Well we haven't really gotten together yet to talk about character creation. I kind of just took initiative and went through character creation by myself just so I'm not totally new to it when we have to officially make our characters.

Our storyteller said that the game is going to be very RP heavy and will be about 8 political factions vying for power in NYC after the Prince stepped down. Both you guys and the ST have told me to not approach it with a DND mindset (since that's the setting I'm used to, as you guys had guessed), so I'm trying to forget what I know about DND and just play it with a fresh mindset.

Right now we're just supposed to come up with our characters, going through the questions presented in the handbook and whatever else we can think of to flesh out our characters.

I just went to the stats first because, you know, DND :thog:

[sktarq]

My players are generally run though a list like the one below to help with generating personality, background, story hooks, etc but I keep the list around during character creation to help get ideas and make the dots on paper a representation of a character rather than ONLY a story to shoehorn in a specific mix of dots (which I expect some of and think is good in moderation)

Who were your parents?
Who raised you (if different than above)?
Are any of the above still alive?
Were any involved in your life when you were embraced?
Do they think you are dead?
Do you keep track of them?
What was your relationship with X (list notable family members)?
Did you have any special hobbies or activities that you associate with X?
(ex. hunting, camping, fixing the car, cooking, gardening, knitting)
What was your occupation?
Did you work in a different field before that?
Did/do you go to college/university etc?
if so where?
what did you study?
what was you party/study ratio?
What was your religion
has it changed since you died?
What was high school like for you?
did you go to prom?
do you still keep in touch with anyone from HS?
How did you loose your virginity (if you did)
Who was your first love?
When did you learn to drive?
What was your first car (if any)?
What did you do during the summer vacation?
In College/Uni?
In HS?
Before HS?
Did you ever get in trouble with the law?
should you have?
Where were you born?
did you always live in (chronicle city)? or
when/why did you move to (chronicle city)?
Did you have siblings?
were you close?
where do they live?
what do they do (if known)?
do they think you are dead?
Did you ever marry?
Who?
Why not?
Did it last?
Kids?
Any of the above still alive?
Do any of the above still think you are alive.

damn out of time. will edit to continue later.

[TheCountAlucard]

Like I was saying before, Auspex is absurdly useful at digging up dirt. Hearing a whispered conversation sixty yards away, knowing another person's nature with a look, knowing an object's history by touching it, and reading minds, all are insanely (ha!) useful tools for gathering secrets. And trust me, if you're a vampire, you've got secrets.

Worth note is that most mental powers are free or next-to-free. Sure, it costs a Willpower to read the mind of a vampire, but it's free to look into a mortal's mind, and the kine see far more than Kindred give them credit for.

So even if you don't take it yourself, someone in the coterie should invest in Auspex. Because dirt can get you some powerful leverage.

[Corndog]

man, coming up with a feeding restriction is tough

it's hard to not come off as generic, cheesy, creepy or just straight up Freudian

[The Glyphstone]

Generic, cheesy, creepy, or Freudian....would cover pretty much every possible feeding restriction in existence, so if you're trying to avoid all of those, you're not going to get anywhere.

-Married individuals (easy to spot, until you get the girl who borrowed her friend's ring to avoid getting hit on at bars).
-People wearing a red shirt (or similar visible article of clothing, means your food supply is safe but very unpredictable)
-Bald men (could be cancer survivors...or could be badass bikers, fun times)
-Recovering alcoholics (easy to find, but are they still 'recovering'?)

Are at least less generic than 'redheads', 'Muslims', 'mimes' or 'women who look like my mother'.

[sktarq]

military veterans
Cowards
Afro-American Males
Those without Leadership Qualities (was one of mine and basically made up of servants, yes men, BDSM subs, passive housewives/henpecked husbands and many other varieties)
Medical Professionals
People with cancer
Those who base lives on Fighting Prowess (Soldiers, Boxers, Gangbangers)
Virigns
People who smell like floral perfume or aftershave or blood or human decomp
People with port wine stains
Burn Victims (get to create your own if you don't mind loosing humanity)
people who work with (animals, plants, cars take your pick)
Catholics
Italian Blooded Men.

most will seem kinda arbitrary but that's also the point. And creepy, fruedian, or disturbing bleh is kinda the point.

[Corndog]

Yeah I'm probably overthinking it
thanks for the suggestions

[Driderman]

A pretty horrible one was the Jan Pieterzoon from the clan novels, who could only drink from rape victims. Generally, it just took some additional logistic work to create a herd but when he was on the move and/or didn't have time to access his regular "stable" well, Dominate probably came in handy to create conditions under which he could actually feed... :smalleek:

Personally, I like feeding restrictions that feel thematic with the character somehow, like a former noble that will only feed on royalty, a Roman centurion who will only feed on those of italian heritage, or a character based on fear and intimidation who can only feed on people who know exactly what he is and is going to do to them, thus warranting a villains exposition before the feeding to ensure the victim is aware. Of course, Dominate can often solve that particularly problem but despite it's potency, Dominate can be reversed, it's effects fade, or sometimes simply not just work.

Basically, a feeding restriction should be a (minor) plot device. It should be a complication for your character that adds to his characterization and story and will sometimes limit or otherwise inconvenience him, without filling up entire sessions because it became too wacky.

Edit: Man, I really miss playing Vampire

[CarpeGuitarrem]

"Can only feed on (literal) redshirts" is a hilarious restriction.

[Driderman]

"Can only feed on (literal) redshirts" is a hilarious restriction.

Seems more Malkavian than Ventrue to me, though.
Or at least suited for a comedy game rather than "serious" WoD. Like when playing Glampire, Whampire or Nampire :smallbiggrin:

[The Glyphstone]

The shirt doesn't have to be red...or even a shirt. Blue shirts...or people wearing a tie, or someone who's not carrying a smartphone. Something that isn't innate to them, but is related to their physical appearance.

[TheCountAlucard]

Edit: Man, I really miss playing VampireYou and me both!

[Kiero]

Well, expect the system to be awful, because it really is.

[Driderman]

Well, expect the system to be awful, because it really is.

Not awful awful, but you don't really play Storyteller for the system anyway. Luckily, it's unobtrusive enough that you can use it pretty much as little as you want.

[sktarq]

The system is one of the more storyteller twitchy ones. With a good storyteller the system works well enough that its foibles don't matter but it is rather tough to get to that point with experience. Basically competence is in direct proportion to the number games, stories, and possibly friendships broken trying to learn.

[Chen]

For feeding restrictions in our game we just made it a flat out difficulty increase to feeding for the most part (i.e., everyday feeding). In particular circumstances the exact restriction was brought up. For example if your feeding restriction is white, blonde women, you're going to have trouble if you're travelling in the middle east or if you're at a NAACP meeting that gets attacked by werewolves.

Also if the game is going to be political in nature, be wary that a Ventrue in a coterie with a Malk and Gangrel is goingt o be looked down upon by his clan. Ventrue hang out with other Ventrue, Toreador and maybe some Tremere (basically the high clans). A ventrue traipsing along with a gangrel is not something the higher ups are going to take kindly too, especially if clans are fighting for their position in the city.