[PF] Conjurer but not summoner

[4BR4]

Hi Ground, I'd like to read your suggestions for the build of my Elf Conjurer for the next Rise of the Runelords campaign.

Out of the settings of the adventure path, only Core and APG are allowed.

I'd like to be a "God" wizard, for this I specialized in Conjuration (Teleport), and chosed as opposite schools Abjuration and Enchantment.

Even if I'm a conjurer I'd like not to rely on summoned creatures if not for their SLA and spells, so I'm thinking not to go for the route of feats as Augment Summoning, also because Superior Summons is not available.

I have few feats that I have to take, and they are Improved Initiative and Craft Wondrous Item in the first five levels, then Improved Familiar at level 7 and Craft Rod as bonus feat at level 10.

As I told I'd like to be a "God", but when will be the moment to fight the boss, I was thinking that would be "nice" screws him with something like Enervation, and so make my wizard able to spontaneously cast a Quicken Maximized Empowered Enervation followed by a Maximezed Empowered Enervation :smallbiggrin: (Magical Lineage: Enervation)

So, my ideas are a "God" wizard or a "God" wizard + Enervation one-trick pony, any suggestions on how I can achieve them?

[Haldir]

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=9876

Conjuration is powerful because it also gives you access to many control spells, which means you have the ability to prohibit the enemy from achieving their goals with things like cloudkill, solid fog, Wall of Stone, Wall of Force, Web, Glitterdust... Anything that can apply a status effect that benefits your team.

Oddly, the other end of that is applying beneficial status effects for your team. God Wizards are wizards who can manifest the right tool for every situation, and oftentimes your teammates can be your greatest asset for extending the power of your spells.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104002

[4BR4]

Thank you for your reply Haldir.

I'll check both your links, event if the first one is really about D&D and not Pathfinder.

If not going for the Enervation route I was thinking about take more Spell Focus in order to raise the DC of my spells.

[Spore]

What level are you starting on? Will you reach 20? 15? 13? 10?

[Drachasor]

Rise of the Runelords hits 15 easy, I hear. I've heard of people hitting 17 or 18 with it. Not 20 though, which is too bad since Conjurers get to have one summon around PERMANENTLY at 20 -- yeah, you can get a level 16 cleric as a class ability.

Summons ARE nice only because they are basically the Wizard version of healing, but they do damage and other stuff too. Every attack they get is one attack that doesn't need to get healed. They can also be great for any sneak attackers you have. So I wouldn't totally discount them. Superior Summons is hardly necessary for them to be amazing.

I understand not wanting to go crazy with summons. I decided I'd avoid using them in fact with my Diviner. Even though they are crazy-good and PF just buffed Monster Summoning like crazy for no discernable reason. But having a summon now and then isn't bad. SM2 can get you an Earth Elemental for instance, which stays good for quite a while.

Also, you might as well pick up Spell Focus (Conjuration) for the DC boost. Lots of great Conjuration spells can use it.

Anyhow, get the Teleportation subschool option if you can. The swift teleports are phenomenal.

The Create Pit line is probably one of the best spells in the game at low levels. Unlike Web it doesn't block vision, which can be a problem.

You'll want to remember once you hit 5th level or so to make sure you have some single target spells. Snowball isn't a bad choice around then (1d6 damage/level, 5d6 max, first level spell, touch attack and Staggers on a failed fort save). You can and will have battles where AoEs do not work -- this is easy to forget. Mad Monkeys and Aqueous Orb are fun, especially combined with pits.

Unseen Servant can drop marbles on the ground. This makes enemies moving into that square make a balance check -- which should leave them flat-footed, but check with your DM since that sort of text was lost from the balance skill -- it's especially odd given the flat-footed comments in Grease.

Speaking of which, Grease is a pretty good spell against enemies and very flexible. It can disarm an enemy or make others fall prone. Pretty nice.

[4BR4]

I'll start from level 1 and I'll reach level 18, following DM's indications.

I know that summons are great but we have already 3 players able to hold the line, and no one of them sneak attack.

I'm already a Teleport wizard, but I don't have access to Superior Summons, Mad Monkeys or Snowball, 'cause the only available sources are Core and APG.

Anyway as I told I don't want totally discount them, but use them more for their SLA's and spells that for attack and combat maneuvers.

Grease is one of my favourite spells, so are Create Pit, Color Spray and Glitterdust. Aqueous Orb will be also for sure in my spellbook.

Usually I choose Necromancy and Enchantment as my opposite schools, but this time, due to the fact that we have a cleric and I want to have access freely to Enervation, I chose Abjuration as opposite school.

[Osiris]

Conjuration is powerful because it also gives you access to many control spells, which means you have the ability to prohibit the enemy from achieving their goals with things like cloudkill, solid fog, Wall of Stone, Wall of Force, Web, Glitterdust... Anything that can apply a status effect that benefits your team.

Everything you said here is true, except Wall of Force, an Evocation. It's a good spell either way.

What schools are banned for your conjurer?
EDIT: oh wait, didn't realize this is PF, so I have no idea what I just said is true, sorry :smallredface:

[4BR4]

I have as opposite schools Abjuration and Enchantment.

[4BR4]

Ok Ground, I was thinking something like this:

1.Spell Focus:Conjuration
1b.Scribe Scroll
3.Improved Initiative
5.Spell Focus:Transmutation
5b.Craft Wondrous Item
7.Improved Familiar (Consular [email protected])
9.Spell Focus (Evocation)
10b.Craft Rod
11.Spell Focus:Necromancy
13.Spell Penetration
15.Greater Spell Penetration
15b.Quicken Spell
17.???

[Arbane]

Ok Ground, I was thinking something like this:
(SNIP)
15b.Quicken Spell
17.???

19. Profit! I couldn't resist...
:smallbiggrin:

[khachaturian]

would probably reconsider the emphasis on spell focus feats. for example, you mentioned wanting to use enervation, which is from the necromancy school. however, that spell does not offer a save. you also probably want to shoot for spell perfection at level 15, which means taking quicken earlier. other metamagic feats to look at include dazing spell, persistent for SoD, and selective in addition to standbys like empower and maximize, which could both be potentially useful with enervation.

[Drachasor]

Your level 15th or 17th Feat is Spell Perfection. You pick a spell and whenever you cast it you get some great bonuses. You can also add any one metamagic feat when you cast it for free (total modified level can't be above 9th though, sadly). Also, any feats which add a numerical bonus to spells (like Spell Penetration or Spell Focus) are doubled. It's from the APG so you are good (it requires 15 ranks in Spellcraft).

You could also get Preferred Spell (also APG, requires heighten, 5 spellcraft ranks). You pick a spell, and can convert any spell of equal or higher level to that spell spontaneously. You can also apply metamagic feats during this conversion, but they aren't free.

Though, you would need to pick up some more metamagic feats. Still, these are pretty potent if you want to use one spell a lot and have it be really effective. It can be great for Enervation or any number of spells. Something to consider.

Also, if you are getting Improved Initiative, might as well grab it at level 1. Spell Focus: Conjuration isn't going to do you much good at that point anyways.

[andreww]

Ok Ground, I was thinking something like this:

I would suggest changing things like this:

1.Improved Initiative
1b.Scribe Scroll
3.Spell Focus: Conjuration
5.Persistent Spell
5b.Craft Wondrous Item
7.Improved Familiar (Consular [email protected])
9.Greater Spell Focus (Conjuration)
10b.Craft Rod
11.Quicken Spell
13.Spell Penetration
15. Spell Perfection
15b. Dazing Spell
17. Greater Spell Penetration

You are specialising in Conjurations, many of which dont allow SR, so you can skimp on Spell Penetration until later levels. Persistent Spell is crazily good for making your control spells stick. Quicken is simply essential from fairly early on, I wouldn't want to delay past level 11 to get it. Spell Perfection is nuts, especially when you start adding Dazing Spell to your preferred no SR damage dealing Conjuration.

[4BR4]

If for Enervation I was thinking to something like this, having Magical Lineage:Enervation as Magical Traits:

1.Improved Initiative
1b.Scribe Scroll
3.Craft Wondrous Item
5.Empowered Spell
5b.Heighten Spell
7.Improved Familiar (Consular [email protected])
9.Preferred Spell:Enervation
10b.Craft Rod
11.Quicken Spell
13.Spell Penetration
15. Greater Spell Penetration
15b. Maximized Spell
17. Spell Perfection:Enervation



@andreww

thank you for your idea, could you please give any example of "preferred no SR damage dealing Conjuration"?

[andreww]

Level 1: Snowball
Level 2: Acid Arrow, Stone Call (huge area, no save and therefore uses Will)
Level 3: Ice Spears
Level 4: Acid Pit
Level 5: Acidic Spray, Hungry Pit, Geyser (potentially huge area, very low damage)
Level 6: Acid Fog (normally terrible but slow acidic death when Dazing although the damage is poor)
Level 7: Caustic Eruption (requires Greater Rod or Magical Lineage)

[andreww]

If for Enervation I was thinking to something like this, having Magical Lineage:Enervation as Magical Traits:

A couple of points about this route.

Nothing should stop you from taking Spell Perfection at level 15. It is the single most powerful feat for a caster bar, maybe, Leadership, and that is only a definate maybe. If you swap Perfection and Greater Spell Penetration you are still getting the same bonus against SR for Enervation. Also consider up an Otherwordly Kimono for another +4 bonus on beating SR.

Secondly using Enervation has two other problems. You will often be shooting at enemies engaged in melee and those enemies will often have cover, whether from environmental effects or your own allies. That could easily eb a -8 penalty to attack. Now you are making touch attacks but your BaB is still crap and your Dex probably wont be much above 20 so you still face a moderately high chance of missing.

[4BR4]

Hi andreww thank you for pointed out that swapping Spell Perfection and Greater Spell Penetration the bonus against SR will be the same.

Even more, I'm an elf, so I already have a +2 bonus against SR.

About the mischance in melee, I have the highest Initiative bonus in the party, with a 20 Dex, the Warrior of Old racial trait and Improved Initiative feat. So, usually, I'll be the 1st to act in the round and free to shoot my ray without too many issues.

About the touch, I'd like to find place for the Weapon Focus [ray] feat, but really I cannot find how place it in my build.

[andreww]

About the mischance in melee, I have the highest Initiative bonus in the party, with a 20 Dex, the Warrior of Old racial trait and Improved Initiative feat. So, usually, I'll be the 1st to act in the round and free to shoot my ray without too many issues.
That works great for round one (provided enemies aren't providing cover) but after that you might struggle. Unfortunately Enervation isn't killing anything in a single round at high level. The best you can manage, ignoring rods, would be Maximised Empowered Enervation followed by Empowered Quickened Enervation for two level 5 spell slots. At most that is 12 negative levels. That is a great debuff but for two level 6 spell slots you could be dropping Persistent and Quickened Flesh to Stone forcing 3 saves in one round or Dazing and Quickened Chain Lightning for 40d6 damage to everything and a high chance of forcing anything in the battle to lose its next six turns.


About the touch, I'd like to find place for the Weapon Focus [ray] feat, but really I cannot find how place it in my build.
Don't do this, it is a horrible feat for what it gives you. Take another metamagic or something useful and carry a few quickened true strikes at high level for when you really don't want to miss.

[4BR4]

Killing something in one round is not my idea, what I want is to help my party to kill the thing fast and with few issues.

Flesh to Stone and Chain Lightning are really nice (not so much the 1st one for our loot hungry cleric) but any of them is a Conjuration spell :smallwink:

Anyway I really like the Dazing effect and I also have the idea to choose 3 preferred spells from the same school, one for each save (Eightened Magic Missile for Will, Fireball for Reflex, and I still don't know for Fortitude), so that I can cast them Dazing on the fly when I need them.