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Rubo233
2007-01-29, 10:37 AM
I was helping my player find a feat he wanted for his character i suggested that he take melee weapon mastery i then showed this feat to my friend who is also my DM for one of the games i play in. He took a look at Melee weapon mastery and said it was overpowered. I don't think it is i think it gives a boast to the fighter class and helps give them a reason to be played at the higher levels.

So i must ask the question are the Feats melee weapon master and weapon supremacy overpowered?

I don't think so but i may be wrong.

Were-Sandwich
2007-01-29, 10:40 AM
No, they aren't. For a more detailed explanation, consult your local TLN BWL

Neo
2007-01-29, 10:40 AM
I don't think it is really, but as the DM you have final say in what goes, so go with how you feel about it.

And soon we'll have the hordes who say it doesn't matter as fighters are supremely underpowered anyway.

pestilenceawaits
2007-01-29, 10:49 AM
I don't think they are at all the level required to get them as well as the other feats make them fit in quite nicely. they could overpowered if available at 1st level.

Rubo233
2007-01-29, 10:55 AM
what does BWL? mean

Khantalas
2007-01-29, 10:55 AM
If you get it through warblade, a class great compared to fighter, it may be open to argument. But with fighter, the feat I Win, You Lose would be underpowered. :smalltongue:

Shisumo
2007-01-29, 10:58 AM
what does BWL? mean

Bears With Lasers, a poster with a very strong opinion about the relative power of the fighter class.

(Sadly, it's also a very justified opinion. :smalleek: )

Thomas
2007-01-29, 11:07 AM
They're powerful feats, obviously. They're better than Dodge or Weapon Focus, for instance. But anything is better than most of the PHB feats. (Heck, some of the PHB feats are a dozen times better than the rest).

These particular feats, and all the related feats in the PHB2 (Slashing Flurry etc.), are perfectly balanced - they're certainly not overpowered. They make going 18 levels in Fighter a viable (though not powerful) option.

Think of them as high-level class abilities. Compare to some prestige classes. Do they look overpowered now? I didn't think so.

PinkysBrain
2007-01-29, 11:07 AM
Overpowered? Hell no.

Marek Haldir
2007-01-29, 11:54 AM
What does it do?

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-01-29, 12:08 PM
Melee weapon mastery grants you the benefits of Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization with all weapons of a particular damage type (bludgeoning, slashing, or piercing). Prerequisites include having Weapon Specialization and Weapon Focus in one of those weapons to begin with.

Weapon Supremacy is a feat, available only to level 18+ fighters (or those that can choose feats as 18th level fighters) that grants a whole host of benefits with one particular weapon. It gives you a bonus against being disarmed, lets you use it in grapples, gives you a floating +5 bonus on certain attack rolls, lets you take 10 on a single attack roll once per round, and a +1 bonus to AC. You can take the feat only once.

Weapon Supremacy is not overpowered because at 18th level you have to match this up against other characters' abilities to do things like cast timestop, wish, or shapechange several times per day. I don't think Weapon Supremacy even compares. But then you can use that all day long, whereas the spells are a bit more limited. So it balances ou there.

Golthur
2007-01-29, 12:11 PM
Weapon Supremacy is a feat, available only to level 18+ fighters (or those that can choose feats as 18th level fighters) that grants a whole host of benefits with one particular weapon. It gives you a bonus against being disarmed, lets you use it in grapples, gives you a floating +5 bonus on certain attack rolls, lets you take 10 on a single attack roll once per round, and a +1 bonus to AC. You can take the feat only once.

Weapon Supremacy is not overpowered because at 18th level you have to match this up against other characters' abilities to do things like cast timestop, wish, or shapechange several times per day. I don't think Weapon Supremacy even compares. But then you can use that all day long, whereas the spells are a bit more limited. So it balances ou there.

No way. Taking 10 once a round is totally equivalent to wish and time stop.
[/sarcasm]

Yeah, wizards shouldn't be able to stop time and then run a marathon afterward. You'd think stopping the universe would tire someone out.

Ghost Komori
2007-01-29, 12:14 PM
One would think

Ramza00
2007-01-29, 01:00 PM
Polymorph+Wraithstrike is better than this feat, and that is available at lvl 7 let alone lvl 17 (9th lvl spells) lvl 18 (when you can take weapon supremacy)

Matthew
2007-01-29, 01:10 PM
Melee Weapon Mastery isn't overpowered, but it is a huge leap up from Weapon Focus and Specialisation. Prior to this Feat, Fighters could go:

Fighter 01: +1 AB,
Fighter 04: +1 AB, +2 DB,
Fighter 08: +2 AB, +2 DB,
Fighter 12: +2 AB, +4 DB,

...which was an investment of four Feats and applied to one weapon. Comparatively, it sucked. However, the new progression (if I understand it correctly):

Fighter 01: +1 AB,
Fighter 04: +1 AB, +2 DB,
Fighter 08: +3 AB, +4 DB,
Fighter 09: +4 AB, +4 DB,
Fighter 12: +4 AB, +6 DB,

and the extension of a +2 AB and +2 DB bonus to all weapons of one Damage Type may seem strange and 'unbalanced' with regard to what was available before. It may seem less strange to a DM using the Weapon Groups Optional Rule.

The fact is that this is a 'Power Up' for the Fighter, but compared to what Full Casters are capable of at the equivalent level it's not much. The context of the Feat is what you will have to explain to your DM. It does make Fighters better, it is more powerful than what went before and it is a break with the 'normal' Weapon Focus / Weapon Specialisation progress. However, Fighters are pretty much in need of a power up. Frankly, this Feat isn't even that good and it's pretty messy to boot, but it won't break your game if you are playing default RAW D&D 3.x.

Justinian
2007-01-29, 01:22 PM
IMHO, no, they are not overpowered. These are neccessary Fighter buffs for mid-to-lategame, just to keep them competitive with other martial classes, let alone even try to balance them with the power of a Wizard or a Cleric.

ken-do-nim
2007-01-29, 08:20 PM
I want to point out that favored souls can take melee weapon mastery too, although it will take them until level 15 to do so (unless they take a one level fighter dip at level 13). (They get weapon specialization at level 12, and that is a prerequisite, and general feats are chosen before class abilities are granted when levelling up). Ah, there's nothing like a divinely favored, powered, righteous mighted, weapon focused/specialized/mastered, blessed holy warrior...