To Salvage a Ranger Build

[Gale]

I rebuilt an entire character about fifteen minutes before a campaign started. It was rather foolish of me but I was seriously unhappy with it.
I ended up this: Ranger 2/Fighter 2/Order of the Bow Initiative 1 (OotBI).
It was something suggested in KSB Snow Owl's Archer Build Thread. (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=194.0) It seemed like a decent build at the time until I realized the Prestige Class OotBI is essentially a huge trap as it's main class feature, Ranged Precision, is a standard action to do an additional 1d8 damage on a single shot. Once you calculate in bonus damage Ranged Precision simply ends up hurting you by a lot.
I've since tried to ask the DM if I could rebuild the character into a Scout/Ranger mix but he said I couldn't. I'm still not entirely sure why but I'm sure my incessant pestering didn't help much. (I really should have let it go.)
I don't really know where to go with this character now. If anyone can help salvage this I would really appreciate it.

[Kennisiou]

Start going Factotum. Get yourself up to Factotum 8. Multiple standard actions means multiple OotBI attacks, which is probably your best way to salvage this. You'll probably be slightly worse off than if you'd just gone manyshot (much worse off than manyshot with knowledge devotion, honestly), but it's going to help you make the best of your bad decision. Our you could go manyshot + knowledge devotion and just pretend the whole OotBI level basically didn't happen.

[nedz]

Options

Retire the character and create a new one
Live with the fact that you have

Almost a dead level of OBI, which doesn't even advance all of your skills
Two levels of Fighter, which don't advance your skills either


Frankly this is what happens when you spend 15 minutes on the character build process in 3.5, which is not entirely your fault. I've fallen into this trap previously when DMing.

Consider taking levels of Wilderness Rogue and grabbing the Woodland Archer feat. This will give you more skill points, useful skills and sneak which can stack with the Ranged precision dice, well sometimes. This is a salvage job however.

Or I'd just go with more Ranger. I once had a cohort who was a Ranger/OBI, I never used Ranged Precision: Rapid shot was so much better. OBI is truly awful.

[MirddinEmris]

Well, the second level of OotBI let's you make ranged attack without provoking AoO. It's at least something.

You can also die and make a new character.

[Sian]

best way to salvage might be Scout focusing on one heavyhitting shot ... not great or anything since the fighter and the OOtbI is somewhat dragging it down but still :)

[Gale]

I would actually remake the character if I could but I've been told already that I can't. Even if I got myself killed intentionally the DM said I would either be kicked out or forced to play the same character again.
Honestly, it seems like my best option is simply to start doing a Swift Hunter build and acting like I never wasted 3 levels in Fighter and OotBI.

[Callin]

I would do that. Just eat the levels and work on it from here. 3 levels is a hit but think of it this way. Not everyone knows what they wanna be so they gotta make a few mistakes first. Work with it and enjoy the hit points from fighter and the whatever from OotBI.

Other option is to embrace it and make the best of a single standard attack as you can. Take OotBI and be the bow lol.

[ZeroSpace9000]

Sorry to say, but this situation doesn't look good for you. Depending on how exactly you had explained the what happened with your build, most DM's would be amenable to allowing a rebuild. Myself, I have a blanket 3-session rebuild policy, partly with this exact situation in mind. Your DM not allowing a straight rebuild is sucks, but is not the end of the world. But the fact that s/he will either boot you or force you to play the same character again if you get your character killed is a really bad sign. With this level of antagonism present, your DM may actually see any death by your character as intentional on your part.

Please note that this is only a hunch, as I am not the DM in question. This is just my read on things, given how generally petty this DM appears. Furthermore, without anything from the DM, my thoughts will of course be in favour of the poster.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Order of the Bow Initiate is completely worthless, but luckily your current character doesn't qualify for it, so you have to trade it out for something else! Order of the Bad Classfeatures requires BAB +5 before you can start taking it, a Ranger 2/ Fighter 2 only has a BAB +4, so you couldn't have taken it at your 5th level.

Talk to the DM, let him know that you made your character in a rush and didn't realize that the build breaks the rules. You may be able to play the feeling-guilty-want-to-make-it-right card to remake the character, or just tell him that you're changing your levels because you have to and don't even give him a chance to say no, or whatever you think would work best since you know your DM better than I do.

For an archer that doesn't use spells, if you're using Fighter at all (Thug (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) for only light armor and more skill points) you want enough levels for Weapon Specialization to get Ranged Weapon Mastery in PH2. A Swift Hunter (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=103.0) would probably be better, if you're into skirmish. A Swordsage/Soulknife/Soulbow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060403a&page=2) with TWF is quite good, but doesn't use an actual bow. Apparently a Warblade Archer (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1383001) is also quite good.

[lsfreak]

Side note: the build you linked uses Sword and Fist's version of Order of the Bow Initiate, which is a really good class. The 3.5 version sucks.
EDIT: I guess there's multiple builds, but it looks like the ones that are using the 3.5 version of OotBI are mainly using it for threatening with a bow and as filler, bonus damage is supplied by other classes (Pious Templar, scout, etc).

[HunterOfJello]

What are your stats, race, and starting gear?

Also, what sources are available to use?


Start with the Archery Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0) if you're still set on archery, but by this point I'd consider melee of some sort instead.

[Gale]

@Biffoniacus_Furiou: My DM banned Tome of Battle - Book of Nine Swords (which is partly why I had to rebuild my character in the first place.) Also, there is nothing I can do to convince the DM to let me get rid of the class level. Not meeting the requirements is a valid reason but he's already told me to stop asking.

@HunterOfJello:
Race: Goblin
Stats: STR = 14, DEX = 21, CON = 12, INT = 18, WIS = 12, CHA = 14
Gear: Composite Longbow, Chainshirt, Raptor Arrow, 7,200Gp (That I'm saving to put Splitting on the bow.)
Also, are sources are available except for Tome of Battle - Book of Nine Swords, Book of Exalted Deeds, and anything online.

[lsfreak]

Is 3.0 stuff that hasn't been replaced on the table? If so, grab a second level of OotBI just for the ability to threaten with your bow if you want (like I said, that's the main reason it's there in some of those builds anyways, not the pathetic +1d8 damage on a standard action) and then look into Peerless Archer (especially level 3 for Power Shot) and Deepwoods Sniper. Also consider sinking a couple more levels into fighter; Weapon Spec and Ranged Weapon Mastery aren't outstanding, but non-precision archery is light on bonus damage so they're comparatively better than they'd be on another build. You won't be winning damage competitions, but Peerless Archer 3 + Deepwoods Sniper + Fighter 4 make a half-decent martial archer.

[Urpriest]

@Biffoniacus_Furiou: My DM banned Tome of Battle - Book of Nine Swords (which is partly why I had to rebuild my character in the first place.) Also, there is nothing I can do to convince the DM to let me get rid of the class level. Not meeting the requirements is a valid reason but he's already told me to stop asking.

Before you told him you don't meet the requirements, or after?

I ask because that's generally a very different situation, so if your DM isn't aware of it then they might have a different opinion about the situation. At worst, your DM will make you keep all your other levels and you'll be stuck with two levels of Fighter which at least helps your feat acquisition.

[Gale]

He said to stop asking before I even learned that I didn't meet the requirements. Normally, it would make sense for him to allow me to get rid of the class level. But honestly it has gotten to the point where asking him about it will only further irritate him. He won't allow it because it's my fault for messing up to begin with; he won't budge.

[Urpriest]

He said to stop asking before I even learned that I didn't meet the requirements. Normally, it would make sense for him to allow me to get rid of the class level. But honestly it has gotten to the point where asking him about it will only further irritate him. He won't allow it because it's my fault for messing up to begin with; he won't budge.

The thing is, your character is literally impossible to play. You don't qualify for the PrC, and the rules only say what happens when you take PrCs that you qualify for. It could do anything.

Plus, it's from Complete Warrior, so it's even more strict about not qualifying for PrCs. You lose access to all class abilities from the PrC permanently, basically.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

He said to stop asking before I even learned that I didn't meet the requirements. Normally, it would make sense for him to allow me to get rid of the class level. But honestly it has gotten to the point where asking him about it will only further irritate him. He won't allow it because it's my fault for messing up to begin with; he won't budge.

You don't need permission to follow the rules. "Turns out I was in such a rush making the character that I wrote down a few things he didn't even qualify for, so I fixed it."

[Gale]

Yeah, I know. But at this point he literally won't care. I've actually asked for a compromise earlier just asking to get rid of the one wasted level in OotBI and he said no. I somehow doubt having a legitimate reason will change his mind.
I may bring it up if I get the chance but I really doubt it will change his mind since the missing requirement is so miniscule. It'll just sound like I'm stretching for a reason to fix it. At this point it just seems like I'm continuously complaining for messing up and not just dealing with it.

[Gavinfoxx]

"Right, so this character walks off into the sunset and I have a new character to play...."

[Alent]

Yeah, I know. But at this point he literally won't care. I've actually asked for a compromise earlier just asking to get rid of the one wasted level in OotBI and he said no. I somehow doubt having a legitimate reason will change his mind.
I may bring it up if I get the chance but I really doubt it will change his mind since the missing requirement is so miniscule. It'll just sound like I'm stretching for a reason to fix it. At this point it just seems like I'm continuously complaining for messing up and not just dealing with it.

It sounds to me like he's bitter about something you did with Tome of Battle and doesn't trust you. I'm not sure "I screwed up" is going to make things better in either direction here, you might just be out a group if it becomes an issue either way. Is there some deeper story behind ToB's ban?

[Yawgmoth]

I would actually remake the character if I could but I've been told already that I can't. Even if I got myself killed intentionally the DM said I would either be kicked out or forced to play the same character again. I would consider quitting if a DM ever told me this. non-casters already get the shaft in 3.5, forcing someone to play a subpar version of a subpar concept is just rude. Never play with people who say they're going to force you to not have fun, because D&D is for fun first, last, and only.

[Urpriest]

Yeah, I know. But at this point he literally won't care. I've actually asked for a compromise earlier just asking to get rid of the one wasted level in OotBI and he said no. I somehow doubt having a legitimate reason will change his mind.
I may bring it up if I get the chance but I really doubt it will change his mind since the missing requirement is so miniscule. It'll just sound like I'm stretching for a reason to fix it. At this point it just seems like I'm continuously complaining for messing up and not just dealing with it.

"You messed up in character creation, deal with it" is not a plausible DM attitude. If you literally put things together in 15mins, then you did so precisely because the DM assured you that you could change a few things later if you messed up. That's just healthy table culture, and there's no excuse to either run or be in a group that doesn't have healthy table culture in this day and age, unless you're a teenager or something.

Anyway, with that rant out of the way...

I'd recommend approaching the DM without asking for anything. Basically, "Hey, it turns out I don't qualify for this class. Do you want to houserule that I qualify for it, change it to something else, or rule things some other way? Any way you choose is ok with me."

[Gale]

It sounds to me like he's bitter about something you did with Tome of Battle and doesn't trust you. I'm not sure "I screwed up" is going to make things better in either direction here, you might just be out a group if it becomes an issue either way. Is there some deeper story behind ToB's ban?

Apparently, he played with someone whom made a Swordsage that was ridiculously overpowered. Therefore he banned the entire book.