PF - I'm now convinced the Oracle is Tier 1

[Talya]

Trying to build an oracle for a high level game where we're at 18th level (most advancement will be mythic tiers) - and I simply can't find enough spells worth taking.

Between Mystery spells, favored class bonus spells, and other means of getting additional spells known, there are several levels where I can't make up my mind about what spell to take because there is nothing that I really want.

In 3.5, the spell lists grew so huge over time that spontaneous casters were at a big disadvantage, but I don't believe that's the case in PF. You can get every spell you'd ever want.

(Of course, Mythic Tiers makes the distinction between prepared and spontaneous casters even less relevant. Don't have the spell prepared that you need - or out of spell slots? Or don't even know the spell you need? No problem, spend a single point and you can cast it anyway.)

Only reason I stated Oracle, and not Sorcerer, btw, is the sorcerer spell list is so much better that you probably can't get all the spells you want. No, not even then. So I'm not sure about it...

[Kudaku]

Could you post the spell list you prepared for your Oracle?

Edit: woops, missed the mythic - yeah, mythic really scrambles the tier system.

[strider24seven]

Trying to build an oracle for a high level game where we're at 18th level (most advancement will be mythic tiers) - and I simply can't find enough spells worth taking.

Between Mystery spells, favored class bonus spells, and other means of getting additional spells known, there are several levels where I can't make up my mind about what spell to take because there is nothing that I really want.

In 3.5, the spell lists grew so huge over time that spontaneous casters were at a big disadvantage, but I don't believe that's the case in PF. You can get every spell you'd ever want.

(Of course, Mythic Tiers makes the distinction between prepared and spontaneous casters even less relevant. Don't have the spell prepared that you need - or out of spell slots? Or don't even know the spell you need? No problem, spend a single point and you can cast it anyway.)

Only reason I stated Oracle, and not Sorcerer, btw, is the sorcerer spell list is so much better that you probably can't get all the spells you want. No, not even then. So I'm not sure about it...

Paragon Surge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/paragon-surge) makes Sorcerer and Oracle (as well as any full-caster that can access the sorc/wiz or cleric list) Tier 1.

[Randomguy]

Paragon Surge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/paragon-surge) makes Sorcerer and Oracle (as well as any full-caster that can access the sorc/wiz or cleric list) Tier 1.

Um, what? Is that text supposed to be blue? Or is there some overpowered feat that this spell gives you access to before you're supposed to be able to get it?

[Thanatosia]

Um, what? Is that text supposed to be blue? Or is there some overpowered feat that this spell gives you access to before you're supposed to be able to get it?
Spell knowledge Feat..... you can use it to gain the ability to cast any other spell you want, thus entirely negating the worst disadvantage of spontaneous casters.

[Talya]

Could you post the spell list you prepared for your Oracle?

I'd have to prepare a brand new list. This one is using a custom PrC that added a bunch of enchantments (which most people hate anyway) and cut into my mystery spells (so it's a wash, there.)

Still, in reality, an oracle's "Spells Known" list looks like this at 20:
9/8/8/7/7/7/6/6/7/4.

That's WITHOUT taking Eldritch Heritage (Arcane Bloodline) for a few bonus wiz/sorc spells or taking any expanded arcana feats.

The pathfinder cleric/oracle list is pretty bleak.

I suppose there are a few spells I might take if we weren't using mythic power, but even then it's just filler - stuff you may never use but want just in case you really need it.


Paragon Surge (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/p/paragon-surge) makes Sorcerer and Oracle (as well as any full-caster that can access the sorc/wiz or cleric list) Tier 1.

Yeah, I've used that before. It's awesome. Not this character though...

[Baron Malkar]

You cast paragon surge, take any feat that gives you a bonus spell known, pick a spell you want to cast, cast the spell, when the spell ends you loose the bonus spell known and can cast the spell again to gain a diferent spell known.
If the feat you are taking is Edlrich Heratige (Arcane) you can even get Sorc/Wiz spells as an oracle.


...ninjas...

[andreww]

Um, what? Is that text supposed to be blue? Or is there some overpowered feat that this spell gives you access to before you're supposed to be able to get it?
Paragon Surge gives you access to a feat for 1 minute per level. Expanded Arcana is a feat which adds spells to your list of spells known. Paragon Surge therefore gives you access to any spell from your list for the low low cost of a standard action and level 3 spell slot.

Prepared casters can do the same thing with Preferred Spell provided they have Heighten.

If you are an Oracle with Eldritch heritage (Arcane) then you can also take Improved Eldritch Heritage (Arcane) and take the New Arcana Bloodline Ability. This allows you to add up to 3 wizard spells to your spells known giving you access to their entire list.

Shamans can currently do much the same thing with the Wandering Lore Spirit although on a daily basis rather than instantly.

[andreww]

Still, in reality, an oracle's "Spells Known" list looks like this at 20:
9/8/8/7/7/7/6/6/7/4.
Yep, the PF sorcerer gets much the same thing. The level 20 spells known for the Human Arcane Sorcerer looks like:

9/8/8/7/8/7/7/6/8/4

Now granted the Wizard list is better and there is more competition for great spells but there is no challenge you cannot be prepared for with that sort of line up. You might not have exactly the right tool for the job but you will have one which does it almost as well.

[Talya]

Yeah, I wasn't including the arcane bloodline spells known here, but the oracle can get those, too...

Edit: Hey, note the lack of specificity in the wording of the arcane bloodline power-


New Arcana (Ex): At 9th level, you can add any one spell from the sorcerer/wizard spell list to your list of spells known. This spell must be of a level that you are capable of casting. You can also add one additional spell at 13th level and 17th level.

So, if an oracle grabs this using Eldritch Heritage, or if sorcerer takes a different bloodline, then uses Eldritch Heritage to grab arcane bloodline, and they wait until level 19 to take Improved Eldritch Heritage (New Arcana)... (or better yet, are simply using Paragon Surge to grab it at will), they can use it to select three 9th level spells.