What do vestiges do for a caster?

[Corwin_of_Amber]

I was just wondering, aside from the free metamagic and other minor abilities granted by Anima Mage, how does it really help a caster?

I've only skimmed the various vestiges, but it seems like they are very fighter-oriented. By that I mean, most have abilities that focus largely on combat via hitting things. There are a few abilities that are basically weaker versions of spells, but being a caster renders those rather irrelevant.

So, my question is, what makes binding worth it for a Wizard?

Can you suggest any specific vestiges that would help with only Binder 1/Anima Mage 10 and Improved Binding?

[avr]

Binder 1 + Anima Mage 10 + Improved Binding 2 = EBL 13, so max 6th level vestiges IIRC.

Malphas - disposable spies, Invisibility for escaping combat (Su so can be used in melee w/no check, move action), Sudden Strike if you're the blasting type. Only 2nd level so you can bind him from very early on.

Focalor - aura of despair to give penalties to saves

Karsus - +2 to item save DCs.

Zceryll (web enhancement) - summon monster VII once/5 rounds

That's just off the top of my head without consulting the books. There may well be other useful abilities.

[Crake]

Binder 1 + Anima Mage 10 + Improved Binding 2 = EBL 13, so max 6th level vestiges IIRC.

Malphas - disposable spies, Invisibility for escaping combat (Su so can be used in melee w/no check, move action), Sudden Strike if you're the blasting type. Only 2nd level so you can bind him from very early on.

Focalor - aura of despair to give penalties to saves

Karsus - +2 to item save DCs.

Zceryll (web enhancement) - summon monster VII once/5 rounds

That's just off the top of my head without consulting the books. There may well be other useful abilities.

To add, Naberious is nice if your DM likes to throw ability damage/drain your way

[JaronK]

For a caster, Naberius is the first big one. Combine with Tainted Sorcerer for endless free metamagic all day long (note that you can't go above your normal spell level this way though, so you can't persist first level spells until you can cast 7th level spells).

Naberius also provides that fun diplomancy ability for extra giggles.

Malphas seems to work for ultra long range spell targetting, which is fun. Hit enemies before they can see you?

And Zceryll... well that's just silly amounts of power right there. Divination all day long? Sure, why not.

JaronK

[Psyren]

Naberius is also great for sorcerers, letting you double as the face.


To add to avr's list:

Astaroth (online version) - Bardic Knowledge + floating item creation feat every pact.

Tenebrous - Unlimited Turn attempts, see through magical darkness, Flicker mystery (immediate action miss chance.)

All the psionic ones for Su Psionics which you can still use with your PP pool.

[Zanos]

Binder 1 + Anima Mage 10 + Improved Binding 2 = EBL 13, so max 6th level vestiges IIRC.

Malphas - disposable spies, Invisibility for escaping combat (Su so can be used in melee w/no check, move action), Sudden Strike if you're the blasting type. Only 2nd level so you can bind him from very early on.

Focalor - aura of despair to give penalties to saves

Karsus - +2 to item save DCs.

Zceryll (web enhancement) - summon monster VII once/5 rounds

That's just off the top of my head without consulting the books. There may well be other useful abilities.
Karsus dispel magic touch attack is great if your DM likes magical traps. Saves you from having to burn through a bunch of spell slots.

[weckar]

Naberius goes hand in hand with any mage that uses BoVD spells, as those often cause ability damage tot he caster.

[Psyren]

Karsus dispel magic touch attack is great if your DM likes magical traps. Saves you from having to burn through a bunch of spell slots.

One of the problems with this though is that most traps trigger long before you're close enough to touch them. This is especially true for magic traps like symbols and glyphs, which can have pretty wide ranges.

Of course, this isn't unique to binders - rogues have this problem too.

[avr]

Right, got the ToM to hand now. A few others to consider.

Balam - reroll one attack, save or skill check per 5 rounds & also get +2 to initiative, reflex & AC all the time.

Buer - immunity to poison and disease in a 30' radius, out of combat HP healing.

Chupoclops - as Focalor, plus you get to hide on the ethereal and get blindsense (living only) & deathwatch 10'.

Ipos - swift action true seeing with no material component required.

[Corwin_of_Amber]

Okay, so it seems that, for the most part, they provide some small, yet continuous utility.

Are there any that directly enhance spellcasting? It seems that Focalar's aura does this to a degree, but having to be so close can be a bit unpleasant.

[JaronK]

I'm not sure how the "you get all item creation feats" one counts as small.

But Naberius definitely boosts spellcasting as long as you get some abilities that power spellcasting via ability damage (Tainted Sorcerer, Corrupted Spells, etc). Lahm's Finger Darts is an amazing instant kill no save spell that way, for example. My 12th level Archivist/Tainted Sorcerer/Anima Mage (divine adaptation of course) uses Twinned Lahm's Finger Darts as a basic kill spell, because few things can handle 10d4 dex damage with no save... and it only takes a few rounds to be back to full abilities.

JaronK

[Talya]

Naberius goes hand in hand with any mage that uses BoVD spells, as those often cause ability damage tot he caster.

This applies to sanctified spells from BoED, too.

[Fax Celestis]

Haures can be pretty good if you go illusionist, since you get phantasmal killer 1/5 rds, and can apply all your typical illusion-buff cheese to it. Yes, it's double-save, but it's SoD for no spell slots. Plus you get incorporeal movement and 50% immunity to AoOs and mind blank.

[(Un)Inspired]

This applies to sanctified spells from BoED, too.

Can an anima Mage cast sanctified spells?

[Kaje]

You don't need anima mage for that. Just a one level dip in binder.

[Jack_Simth]

Can an anima Mage cast sanctified spells?
Any good-aligned prepared caster can. Druid, Ranger, Paladin, Cleric, Wizard... Bards and Sorcerers, too, with the right feat... plus many more.

[Kaje]

Any good-aligned prepared caster can. Druid, Ranger, Paladin, Cleric, Wizard... Bards and Sorcerers, too, with the right feat... plus many more.

The point was that anima mages can't be good.

[Psyren]

To clarify, vestiges are amoral, not immoral. They won't interfere with your exalted status, minus of course the very real possibility of falling under a nasty influence and doing something that will jeopardize your status, or ending up at odds with your more orthodox church and failing to resolve the dispute amicably.

EDIT: In AM's case though I did forget the alignment requirement, though arguably the adaptation lets you remove that bit.

[(Un)Inspired]

To clarify, vestiges are amoral, not immoral. They won't interfere with your exalted status, minus of course the very real possibility of falling under a nasty influence and doing something that will jeopardize your status, or ending up at odds with your more orthodox church and failing to resolve the dispute amicably.

EDIT: In AM's case though I did forget the alignment requirement, though arguably the adaptation lets you remove that bit.

What is the adaptation? I haven't actually looked at it in ToM

[Yuki Akuma]

Any good-aligned prepared caster can. Druid, Ranger, Paladin, Cleric, Wizard... Bards and Sorcerers, too, with the right feat... plus many more.

Wrong.

Any non-evil prepared caster can. Neutral anima mages can cast Sanctified spells just fine.

The only advantage good-aligned casters get is that Clerics can spontaneously cast Sanctified spells if they're good.

[Kaje]

Ah, well then.

[Psyren]

What is the adaptation? I haven't actually looked at it in ToM

The adaptation lets you enter Anima Mage with "any spellcaster, or even a psionic character." You can interpret "any spellcaster" to mean "even a good-aligned one."

This may actually be intended, because the adaptation also allows you to alter the fluff to make it more benign. "Anima mages needn't exploit vestiges to gain power - the vestiges could volunteer the added powers to an anima mage in recognition of his spellcasting ability." Since you're not mistreating helpless spirits anymore, there's no reason the PrC can't be good.

EDIT:


Wrong.

Any non-evil prepared caster can. Neutral anima mages can cast Sanctified spells just fine.

The only advantage good-aligned casters get is that Clerics can spontaneously cast Sanctified spells if they're good.

This is questionable at best. I doubt you're going to find many DMs who consider a neutral-aligned spellcaster to be "utterly devoted to good."

[Fax Celestis]

Sanctified != Exalted

[Yuki Akuma]

This is questionable at best. I doubt you're going to find many DMs who consider a neutral-aligned spellcaster to be "utterly devoted to good."

The only rules text related to who can cast Sanctified spells is in the second paragraph.

It reads:


Spellcasters prepare sanctified spells just as they do regular spells, and casters who do not prepare spells (including sorcerers and bards) cannot make use of them except from a scroll. Evil characters cannot cast sanctified spells, including ones cast from magic items.

The wording to exclusive, meaning that anyone who isn't evil can do it.

DMs are of course welcome to houserule them however they like, but them's the rules.

[Psyren]

The only rules text

Yeah, it's pretty obvious what you're trying to do with this qualifier, but this ain't Magic the Gathering. It's a rulebook, all of it is rules text.

Skipping the first paragraph:


SANCTIFIED MAGIC
For those willing to utterly devote themselves to good, great power awaits in the form of sanctified magic. These spells require a great sacrifice from the caster in exchange for powerful results.

is certainly a houserule a DM could choose to use, but nowhere in BoED does it say that "this text over here is important, but not that text over there."

[Kaje]

Psyren, you're quoting fluff. Other poster's quoting crunch. Crunch is rules, fluff is not.

[Psyren]

Psyren, you're quoting fluff. Other poster's quoting crunch. Crunch is rules, fluff is not.

Where is the rule that defines fluff vs. crunch?