Spoilers: What now for Miko?

[Person_Man]

Well, that was very satisfying (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0407.html). So, now that Miko is presumably powerless, what do you want to happen?

Again, kudos to Rich for an awesome plot and character development.

Discuss.

[Justinian]

Well, that was very satisfying (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0407.html). So, now that Miko is presumably powerless, what do you want to happen?.

Humbled monk-with-high-BAB does not join Linear Guild, does not become Blackguard.

[goat]

Honourable samurai-type fighter takes her wakizashi...

And then gets raised to stand trial for killing her Lord and master. Primary witness: Her freshly raised Lord and master.

[Justinian]

Honourable samurai-type fighter takes her wakizashi...

And then gets raised to stand trial for killing her Lord and master. Primary witness: Her freshly raised Lord and master.

Who would himself be in jail for treason? No matter what happened after #405, Shojo wasn't going to be sitting in that throne much longer. He had to swear the same oaths as the Paladins, and he broke them. Were he a President, he would have been impeached - as a monarch, he would have been deposed.

[Green Bean]

:miko: is so shocked at what she did that she drops her emotional defences and actually listens to what :roy: has to say. Then, the newly raised Shojo rips her a new one (metaphorically, people :smallbiggrin:), but eventually consents to allow her to atone. She gets her powers back in time to help the OotS against the Snarl in some minor, yet vital way.

[Khantalas]

Well, it is pretty much clear that Shojo would not return to his throne. Especially since he's broken the oath of the Sapphire Guard. Well, why would he respond to a resurrection spell knowing he will no longer be able to serve and protect his city and people?

After "Everything I did, I did for my people"?

[xyzchyx]

What do I *WANT* to happen?

Hinjo to take charge of the situation, do a quick D.E. on Miko to check that she's not evil, and if not ask Miko outright if she is still with them and if she will help them fight Xykon's army. If by some chance she does detect as evil, then she should be placed under immediate arrest for the assassination of Shojo.

If she does not detect as evil and says that she will help, then he should tell her to quickly rally any other paladins and other fighters to the cause at once, because the early warning beacons have failed so they haven't much time. The consequences for her actions will be dealt with later, but the security of the city is more immediate and must be dealt with right away. He would tell her to leave him to deal with the Order. Once she is gone, he should address the order, stating that he has no reason to believe that they are actually in league with the lich, but they will be retried in a lawful trial once this ordeal is over. He expects their cooperation in trying to prevent this invasion, and if they attempt to flee before the invasion is dealt with, they will be hunted by the sapphire guard and executed on sight.

But like _that's_ gonna happen...

[donkyhotay]

It could go either way. Miko obviously realizes she made a mistake so she will either try to correct them (probably joining OOTS in the process) or she will somehow decide the gods themselves are wrong at which point she will (eventually) become xykons #1 blackguard. Personally I'm betting that she will go through the atonement process.

[goat]

Would it be treason though? The gods seem to have disapproved of Miko's actions, suggesting to me that they don't directly disapprove of Shojo's. In a state that dependant on religious backing, it could count a lot in his favour.

Then again, you could simply ask if the leader of such a heirarchical group could EVER be charged with treason against the group. It could be argued that their job is to follow his will no matter what he decides. Link that with the religious problem above and Shojo could come out fairly clean. Not sparkling, but clean.

AND everyone else thinks he's a bumbling old fool. Just accuse her of staging a coup. When she stands there without her LG powers, who's going to believe her when she says he's actually perfectly compus mentis and plotting behind their backs?

[AlisdairM]

How do I vote 'descend into madness/blackguard/realise-her-error/atone'?

Should I vote A or B?!

[Woot Spitum]

I'm thinking its kinda A, B, and C. Watch it actually be D.

[Purre]

If he gets resurrected...

Shojo has done nothing to disqualify himself to the throne. Whether the Paladins trust him enough for him to keep the leadership of that organization is different matter. And Saphire Guard can stay in the city at the discretion of the ruler, so they should not get too uppity either.

[Person_Man]

How do I vote 'descend into madness/blackguard/realise-her-error/atone'?

Should I vote A or B?!

Vote for what you want. But my guess is that the most accurate vote for your opinion would be for B, since that's the next step in Miko's character development. If she goes that way, I'm sure there will be another poll, Does Miko Atone, Join Xykon, Have a smackdown battle with Roy, etc.

[Tomada]

She will not admit her mistakes, will say that this is some kind of plot to make her go mad or something, and even the gods can't stop her from delivering righteous justice...

[Mike_Lemmer]

Would it be treason though? The gods seem to have disapproved of Miko's actions, suggesting to me that they don't directly disapprove of Shojo's.

I wouldn't say so. They can disapprove of the crime and the punishment at the same time, if the punishment was overboard.

[David94]

I voted C. Killing Shojo wrongfully has GOT to get her into loads of trouble.

[BroodingPaladin]

Hoping for a cool, complicated atonement.

[Neofite]

I'm not sure about the whole Blackguard thing, but I dont see her taking this too well. I really think she is gonna flip out, maybe renounce to 12 Gods.

[Robert_Frazer]

Huzzah, high drama induces an old forumer whose account has long since lapsed into abyance to blow the cobwebs off it again! :smallsmile:

Anyway, whatever way Miko's character may develop in the future, I believe that we can all agree on her immediate reaction:

"ghk...? U gnr't... ERTY'D GESSUNOP DR HP?!?! Trew bkl'a yuvcx... T djhgil zm q loycxpw! Sw! SW! SWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!"

:smallbiggrin:

Speaking seriously, though, when reviewing her expression in the final panel of today's comic, it's clear that Miko has been struck dumb by this catastrophic reversal - and the disastrous unravelling of all that she has dedicated her entire life towards is not the sort of event which you can discount with a shrug of the shoulders. This is going to rock Miko to her very core, especially considering how rigid and unyielding (self-conceited?) she has been up to now.

My speculation is that after a horrified beat where all of the characters struggle to comprehend just what world-turning event has transpired, Miko emits a long, harrowing, blood-curdling and soul-quailing distended shriek of spiritual agony and dashes from the throne room, her mind incapable of porcessing the true horror of the grotesque crime she's committed. This is all a mistake, a terrible cosmic joke, the enemy is already at the gates, they're trying to confuse her and obfuscate her decisions with magical hallucinations, the devils are all around her, she must escape...

Immediate pursuit of Miko has to be abandoned with the sighting of Xykon's horde cresting the horizon, however, and for the next few hours Miko dissolves into the utter pandaemonium that is Azure City hurriedly preparing to stand-to and face this threat.

Later, the two armies find themselves arrayed before each other, steeling themselves for the coming collision - when suddenly, a howl of indignation splits the tense, silent atmosphere - Miko is there, tottering precariously on the city ramparts. She's battered and bedraggled, and as a result of her demented flight through the backalleys of the city her uniform is tattered and soiled by blood, mud - and tears. Her face is deeply lined, as if the revulsion of what has transpired has aged her a century in a day. Hollowly and hoarsely, still unable to comprehend her act of Evil, she barks through chapped and chewed lips:

M: "Lich! Only defeat awaits you! Your conspirator is dead! This city will not surrender to you!"

X: "Who when and the what now?"

M: "Shojo - damned Shojo, he didn't deserve his blue blood, so I removed it from him! Your plot has failed, no traitors exist to open the gates for you!"

X: "What do you mean 'traitor'? My girl, I have foul and corrupt Magicks at my command and enough hobgoblins to bury your entire city in bodies. Why on the Celestial Plane would I spend the effort to recruit rebels?"

An awful moment of realisation passes - then Miko throws herself off the walls...

[DiscountNinja]

Nah - I think Miko will do the whole "gain her LG powers just in time to save the party" type thing ... or help the party in the future and then regain her LG powers.

She's a main character - her kind of character generally is at odds with the PCs for a while, and then makes up with them near the final battle

[RobbyPants]

Before #407, I was hoping that Belkar would kill her (it's possible, given his prophesy!), but now that she's fallen, I imagine he'll want her to live! :belkar:

I doubt that this will be any real setback, and probably serves mostly for character development. If Shojo can have peon-teleport-bot wizards ressurected, I doubt he'll have any problems coming back, himself. Miko will probably feel horrible, and end up attoning (much to Belkar's dismay), and maybe she'll end up becoming a half-likable character...

...or maybe I'm totally wrong and she's completely going the Ex-paladin/blackguard route. Could be an interesting twist!

[Mr_Saturn]

Theres going to be one happy belkar :belkar:

[Golt]

She's going for the atonement. On the last panel we can see that the lightning took away not only her powers, but also her anger, thus making some place for reasonable thinking

[Skyserpent]

What about Seppukku?

[Amastacia_Seijin]

Miko can feel fear again!

Since fear has become so alien to her simply by not being present for a very long time, I'd imagine she's panicked just about now, and at the very LEAST she's visibly shaken. She isn't going to think rationally.

I'm torn on what route she's going to take, but I do think that she's going to keep her head up her-- er, her head in the ground. She knows what's evil and what isn't, what deserves justice and what doesn't, and so on and so forth. I'm betting she'll free the Linear Guild and stick with them for a bit (After all, I don't recall the two actually meeting prior, and now she can't detect evil). I would be disappointed if she became a blackguard, and ecstatic if she goes with my own prediction of ranger with favored enemy: human.

What I don't see is her willing to fight against an army that contains undead angels, legions of hobgoblins, legions of hobgoblin zombies, a lich, a disciple of the crimson cloak (Especially she's not blue anymore), and of course, the monster in the dark. Again, she's feeling fear for the first time in a very long while.

[The Dirge]

She's probably gonna think the gods are evil and go on a berserk killing spree.

[Setra]

I think it's too early to make a judgement.

The next comic will be when I try to speculate. Unless it's an intermission.

We don't know how she will act at this point. She may lash out at everyone for losing her powers, or she may break down crying.

At this point it could go either way, so I will simply wait and see.

[TimeWizard]

<pray> blackguard blackguard blackguard c'mon blackguard</pray>

It's obvious she wont join Xyklon, hating him so much, but it would be cool if she led a splinter group against OotS, especially since the linear guild is finished.

[RandomNPC]

shes going blackguard, but she will beleive in her mind that she is a paladin, and think she is still smiting evil, still detecting evil, all that jaz. she may very well beleive the world is against her and try to smite everything, claiming everything not evil has a magical detect evil blocker.

[EntilZha]

What about Seppukku?

Miko has acted dishonorably (killing a superior), so I hope she does perform seppuku. It would be good riddance.

[MightyMuenster]

I don't think she's going to go Blackguard, as awesome as it would be. Miko simply isn't an evil character. Yes, she's a bit of a heinous wench, but not evil. She always did what she thought was lawful and good, including killing Shojo. Now that she's realized the err in her ways, I see her trying to atone for her wrongdoings, but not in the "powers back" sense of atoning, but in the tragic hero sense of atoning. It's all lined up for her; the steps have all been made, now she just needs to go down in a blaze of glory defending what she has always been trying to.

[EntilZha]

I don't think she's going to go Blackguard, as awesome as it would be. Miko simply isn't an evil character. Yes, she's a bit of a heinous wench, but not evil. She always did what she thought was lawful and good, including killing Shojo. Now that she's realized the err in her ways, I see her trying to atone for her wrongdoings, but not in the "powers back" sense of atoning, but in the tragic hero sense of atoning. It's all lined up for her; the steps have all been made, now she just needs to go down in a blaze of glory defending what she has always been trying to.

I don't care if she goes down dancing the Flamenco, as long as she bites the dust. :smalltongue:

[DomaDoma]

I think Miko's head just exploded from the complex morality, and so she might just take the Javert route. Honestly, it was pretty laughable in Les Mis, too.

[Robert_Frazer]

Nah - I think Miko will do the whole "gain her LG powers just in time to save the party" type thing ...

Well, an advantage to the scenario I posited in my last post is that while it deals with the catastrophe in a dramatic and bold manner, it still leaves options open for further plot development (albeit in the 'classic' comic-book "I got better" style). Rich could tailor it to any plot thread he chooses: Miko's body could lie with ribs akimbo, skull opened, spine twisted and generally dashed to smithereens at the foot of the walls; or her broken body could be dragged away by Good or Evil minions, resulting in her reawakening shackled in prison awaiting penitence or strapped to a table ready to be tortured into the service of Ruin, and knowing that either way her trials are just beginning; or he could not depict the point of impact and leave the matter ambiguous, ready to be rolled out for a side-story whenever needed.

[Holy_Knight]

I think Miko's head just exploded from the complex morality, and so she might just take the Javert route. Honestly, it was pretty laughable in Les Mis, too.
Just asking--have you actually read Les Miserables. or is this a complaint about the play or movie? Not that it struck me as laugable in any of them, but certainly not in the book.

As for the thread topic, let me start by saying:

Good GOD it will suck if Miko becomes a Blackguard. There, I said it. The only thing more cliche than a stick-in-the-ass paladin nobody likes is a paladin who falls and becomes a harbinger of destruction. Bleah.

Personally I hope she manages to atone, and actually becomes a better person for it. It would be great to see her actually do penance for her wrongdoing, and travel a long, soul-searching road to redemption.

[Kesnit]

I think Miko's head just exploded from the complex morality, and so she might just take the Javert route. Honestly, it was pretty laughable in Les Mis, too.

Ironically enough, I was listening to Les Mis not long ago and decided that Javert is like a stick-up-the-rear Paladin. Not sure if Miko would comit suicide, though. But you are right, she went through an experience that completely shattered her view of the world, just like Javert, so she might.

Nah, we wouldn't be that lucky. Besides, I want to see :belkar: kill her :smallwink:

[MightyMuenster]

Nah, we wouldn't be that lucky. Besides, I want to see :belkar: kill her :smallwink:

Ha, imagine she realizes the error of her ways and convinces herself that Belkar is actually lawful good. She would then make him execute her for her crimes.

[Fus.Weapon 1337]

Evil! Now! Kill!

[Charity322]

Why does everyone think Miko will become a Blackguard if she becomes evil? You have to openly embrace evil to be a Blackguard and her major delusion is still that she's doing the right thing.

I reckon if she needs a prestige class she could become an Assassin. She's already made her first assassination, she could utterly crack and decide she lost her powers not because of killing Shojo but because she didn't stop his evil plans in time and try and atone by killing everyone she suspects is corrupt.

[Setra]

Bah, Miko dying would be rather stupid if you ask me. Good riddance? Ha!

Miko is one of the better characters in the strip, even if no one likes her. The very fact that people seem to love to hate her shows this all too well.

[MightyMuenster]

Bah, Miko dying would be rather stupid if you ask me. Good riddance? Ha!

Miko is one of the better characters in the strip, even if no one likes her. The very fact that people seem to love to hate her shows this all too well.

While I agree that she's a great character, I do think a death would be suitable and very in-character for her. She shouldn't go out like some little chump, because she most definitely is not. Even without the class features, she still has all of her feats and skills to put to use. She hasn't proven herself to be stupid; she can seriously wound Xycon's forces even without Blackguard levels (which I think wouldn't suit her at all).

While I think she's a great asset to the story, a death could be much more dramatically appropriate based on what we know about the character, not to mention the heavily feudal Asian feel that Azure City has.

[Setra]

While I agree that she's a great character, I do think a death would be suitable and very in-character for her. She shouldn't go out like some little chump, because she most definitely is not. Even without the class features, she still has all of her feats and skills to put to use. She hasn't proven herself to be stupid; she can seriously wound Xycon's forces even without Blackguard levels (which I think wouldn't suit her at all).

While I think she's a great asset to the story, a death could be much more dramatically appropriate based on what we know about the character, not to mention the heavily feudal Asian feel that Azure City has.

That is a very good point, still, I don't think she has put all her character can into this story yet.

If she does die, I hope it isn't by Belkar's hands, at least not directly. Her character deserves a truly dramatic death...

Wait a second, what if.. *mumbles a few things* then maybe *mumbles more* and then a part of the snarl is released, and kills Miko!

[EvilAndProud]

Belkar should try her. Oh yes.. I went there.

[MightyMuenster]

That is a very good point, still, I don't think she has put all her character can into this story yet.

If she does die, I hope it isn't by Belkar's hands, at least not directly. Her character deserves a truly dramatic death...

Wait a second, what if.. *mumbles a few things* then maybe *mumbles more* and then a part of the snarl is released, and kills Miko!

But of course! Her death has to be meaningful. Ideally, it'd be nice for her to take out some massive force and right as she takes her dying breath, be given her abilities back.

[Renegade Paladin]

Honourable samurai-type fighter takes her wakizashi...

And then gets raised to stand trial for killing her Lord and master. Primary witness: Her freshly raised Lord and master.
If she committed suicide, I doubt her soul would be willing to return. Kind of defeats the purpose of seppuku.

[Setra]

But of course! Her death has to be meaningful. Ideally, it'd be nice for her to take out some massive force and right as she takes her dying breath, be given her abilities back.

Or maybe, as she lays dying, she is given her abilities back, then she heals herself, charges up to Xykon who is trying to free the Snarl, then sacrifices herself to close the gate.

[Amastacia_Seijin]

I reckon if she needs a prestige class she could become an Assassin. She's already made her first assassination, she could utterly crack and decide she lost her powers not because of killing Shojo but because she didn't stop his evil plans in time and try and atone by killing everyone she suspects is corrupt.
That's actually half my logic behind her going with ranger. The other half is that the Giant doesn't seem keen on prestige classes, with Elan being the only character that's taken one.

[Aiani]

I would really like to see Miko atone and maybe become a somewhat nicer person. I don't want her to be too nice though because then she just wouldn't be Miko.

[The_Old_Fox]

and now Miko will snap and be even crazier

[Draz74]

I vote one of three options for Miko:

1) The long road to redemption, becoming a reasonably likable character by the end of the strip, when she gets her powers back.

2) She joins the Linear Guild (hey, their initials are LG!) as Belkar's permanent opposite. This is the only way I might like to see her go Blackguard.

3) She opts for the suicide option ... but instead of doing it with her own sword immediately, she commits suicide by going down in a blaze of glory, trying to take Redcloak (and maybe even Xykon too) down with her.

EDIT: I guess there would also be a sort of beauty in:
4) Belkar takes the opportunity to kill her now. At least it would fulfil his stupid Oracle prophecy. I kind of doubt this one, especially because of the Mark of Justice still poking around ...

[Setra]

Would Miko be an "opposite" of anyone in the LG?

[Justinian]

I don't think she's going to fight anyone.

I halfway wonder if she'd even try to defend herself right now.

[Setra]

I don't think she's going to fight anyone.

I halfway wonder if she'd even try to defend herself right now.

No one really knows what she will do, I point to my first post in this thrwad


I think it's too early to make a judgement.

The next comic will be when I try to speculate. Unless it's an intermission.

We don't know how she will act at this point. She may lash out at everyone for losing her powers, or she may break down crying.

At this point it could go either way, so I will simply wait and see.

[Sunflower]

I hope Belkar gets to decide her fate. With his mark removed for the occasion, and two freshly sharpened daggers!

[Pie]

I actually think it's pretty unlikely she'll turn Blackguard unless she's really gone off the deep end; I mean, flipped even more than she's shown already.

What did she just say last comic? "Only Honor and the will of the gods matter now!"

The gods just gave her a pretty clear message: "You went against our will. You have lost your honor."

There's no way she can dispute she's wrong here. She might be angry and frustrated by this turn of events, but she just lost what she values most in the world because of her actions.

She's going to need time to recover and sort things out, no doubt. But I think she values her honor and her servitude to the gods enough that she will do whatever it takes to regain them. And that means reflecting on her thoughts and actions, and seeing where she went wrong.

I've been hoping from the moment we met Miko that she'd have something like this happen to her, something which would slap her in the face, make her step back for a moment and really think about what she's been doing, leading to a change in her character. I didn't expect that it would be something as major as a fall, but if that's what it takes...

[MReav]

What she needs is a little one-on-one time with Julio Scoundrel.

[War]

Clearly the only solution is to take control of the universe for its own good, as even the gods have proven they don't know what's right.

Not that I actually think that'll happen, but it'd be awesome anyway. You know it would!

[Setra]

What she needs is a little one-on-one time with Julio Scoundrel Setra.

Fixed! :smallcool: :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

[Demented]

Too many good choices, I can't choose!

[Pie]

What she needs is a little one-on-one time with Julio Scoundrel.

... hot. And perhaps just what she needs. :smallbiggrin:

Actually, to be honest, a little one-on-one time with someone could do a world of good for her. Most people who've disagreed with her have always kept their mouth shut about it or attacked her. I think having someone to talk to - respectfully, no hostility or condemning, even if she lashes out - is something she could really use right now, and would definitely help her find where she lost her way and how she can regain her honor.

If everyone just ditches her and lets her flail about on her own right now, as a "serves you right" sort of thing, then maybe she might lose even more sanity and turn Blackguard. But even so, with some time to recover from this, I could still see her finding her way back on her own, even if it's difficult for her to do such.